BA's top tools

[colbyjack]

If you're a BA subscriber, and haven't received the most recent issue, turn away if you don't want this to ruin the surprise. For those that don't, these are the top tools in the minor leagues as voted by the individual league managers.

 

AAA PCL: Hernan Iribarren, best defensive 2B; Alcides Escobar, best defensive SS, strongest IF arm, most exciting player

AA SL: None

A+ FSL: Eric Farris, best baserunner (over the league's fastest & most exciting player, Ben Revere), best defensive 2B; Amaury Rivas, best changeup

A MWL: Cody Scarpetta, best breaking pitch; Jose Duran, best defensive 3B

 

The Brewers with big league tools that made the cut include Fielder (2nd best power), Gallardo (3rd best curve) and Hoffman (2nd best change).

[TheCrew07]

Duran the best defensive 3B? Hmm, maybe he was just "off" when I saw him play.

[PlayerHader]

Who is Fielder behind in the power category? Pujols?

[colbyjack]

Who is Fielder behind in the power category? Pujols?

 

Did you really need to ask that question? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Everyone is behind Pujols in the NL.

[YoungGeezy]

Now I just have to wait to see how X tries to cover this up for his arguement that Farris is no way shape or form a legit prospect because he is 23 years old and Ops isn't steller in A plus. May not be the best prospect but will make it to the bigs and be a very handy utility guy, or maybe even a starter

[DHonks]

The Hurricane rates that highly at 2b defensively? I guess I assumed he wasn't ranked that highly since they tried him for a year in CF.

[TheCrew07]

You won't have to wait for him because base running has nothing to do with being a top prospect. He's been leading the FSL in stolen bases most of the season, that's been common knowledge around here, this is not a new revelation. He'll still need to hit to get on base, he's a contact hitter who's OPS has declined every season of professional baseball. Darren Ford might have been the fastest player in all of professional baseball, he stole over 60 bases 3 straight seasons, he's still in A+ for the Giants.

 

As I stated earlier Farris' OPS has declined every season, now it should have in BC, I won't hold that against him, but he dropped 81 points going from Helena to WV. College hitters should dominate the Pioneer League so success in Helena isn't very telling. I could easily rattle off 15 position players I like more than Farris, and 15 pitchers as well.

 

In no particular order I would rate these players in front of Farris...

 

Gamel

Escobar

Salome

Cain

Lucroy

Green

Gindl

Schafer

Lawrie

Dennis

Prince

Dykstra

Brownstein

Garfield

Richardson

 

Cody

Butler

Periard

Wooten

Fiers

Anundsen

Rivas

Rogers

Bowman

Aguilar

Scarpetta

Peralta

Odorizzi

Bucci

Rosario

Lasker

Heckathorn

Arnett

Howell

 

edit. Realized I forgot Mark Rogers... I'm sure there are 1 or 2 other guys I would have rated higher than Farris, the point is he'd be like 35th on my list.

[DHonks]

TheCrew07, still thinking that highly of Dykstra? I haven't seen him play, but he's ranking near Josh Murray and Shane Hill on my list of disappointments thus far.

 

And you forgot Braddock and Rogers...I guess you did say off the top of your head though

[TheCrew07]

I've never thought highly of Dykstra, he's just toolsy, so there's upside there yet... for a while.

 

It's not that I like Dykstra, it's that I like him more than Farris... as the list was in no particular order looking at my list he'd probably be 1 or 2 spots in Farris, it's not like I think Dykstra is a mid teen player and Farris is a mid 30s.

 

I intentionally left off Braddock as I will refuse to include him on any of my prospect lists until he proves he can stay healthy as I previously posted. It's not worth the heartache getting excited about him only to have him land on the DL every season. Yes this is also a reflection of my confidence in the medical staff. However that's a discussion for a different thread.

[JohnBriggs12]

Fangraphs has a stat call RAA (Runs Above Average).

 

Let's compare Farris' 2009 number to the the guys on TheCrew07's list:

 

 

Farris +10.1

 

Gamel +7.2

 

Escobar +5.1

 

Salome -1.4

 

Cain -2.2

 

Lucroy +13.2

 

Green -2.3

 

Gindl +18.2

 

Schafer +0.4

 

Lawrie +8.5

 

Dennis +12.4

 

Prince +6.3

 

Dykstra -2.8 (Wis), -6.3 (Hel)

 

Brownstein +5.4

 

Garfield -4.3

 

Richardson NA

 

 

I don't know how Brownstein can be rated above Farris. He's older than Farris was when he was at Helena, and his numbers aren't any better. Dykstra's numbers are horrid.

Prince's offensive numbers are similar to Farris' at Helena at the same age. Only difference is Prince plays SS, but Farris is a top flight defensive 2B too.

 

I'm not sure why some are so down on Farris. I don't think anyone is ready to put him in the top 10, but he certainly has to be considered a prospect. He got off to a slow start with the bat this year in pitcher dominant Florida State League. But he's really been coming on lately (.381/.435/.452 in August) and the stolen base totals and percentage are outstanding.

[TheCrew07]

I'm not going to get into subjective analysis about individual prospects and ceiling vs production it's a waste of time to debate it.

 

RAA... well if you think Farris is a better player than Gamel or Escobar... have at it.

 

Brownstein will be a utility guy just like Farris, except that he's already played CF, LF, RF, 2B, SS, and 3B this season, and played them all very well, learning them on the fly in game situations. Farris has been limited to 2B, he's played 13 games at other positions in his entire career, Brownstein hasn't played more than 14 games at any one position all season.

 

Stealing bases will mean something when the Brewers actually start stealing bases again, what good is a skill that won't be utilized? He doesn't have exceptional speed, he's just good on the bases, and I don't see him maintaining his productivity on the base paths as he moves up. If he even steals 30 bases at MLB in a season I'll happily eat crow.

 

Farris is a sub .700 OPS contact hitter in an organization filled with infielders that have greater potential at the plate. The guy you singled out in Brownstein has walked 33 times in 45 games, Farris has 26 BBs in 105 games, 2 more than he had in WV last season in the exact same number of games... who's numbers will translate better? The players he's similar to play a tougher defensive position or already have more positional versatility than he does.

 

Farris is fantastic depth, similar to a Gillespie in that regard. People will see his gaudy SB totals, just like they saw Gillespie's gaudy BB totals and make arguments for him being in the organization's long term plans. I don't see either player as a starter, so I'll rate players with greater versatility and greater upside ahead of both of them.

[shelmark]

I've seen Dykstra play, he doesn't belong in any discussions about prospects.

[Never Outhustled]

Now I just have to wait to see how X tries to cover this up for his arguement that Farris is no way shape or form a legit prospect because he is 23 years old and Ops isn't steller in A plus.

Farris hasn't hit nearly as well as Iribarren did in the FSL, when Iribarren was a year younger. Iribarren isn't good enough with the bat. Farris had just a 792 OPS in Helena as a 21 year old. Dykstra, the guy everyone here likes to kick around, had a 805 OPS there last year right out of HS.

 

Like I said, Farris might be useful as a PR for a contender in Septmember, but he is otherwise not a prospect.

[filthyfrog]

Like I said, Farris might be useful as a PR for a contender in Septmember, but he is otherwise not a prospect.

 

X, based on your opinion of Farris, I have no idea what it takes to be a "prospect" in your mind. Like just about every "prospect" in baseball, Farris has a couple tools to be excited about and a couple tools that need work. While he'll likely never hit for power, it's too early to conclusively say he'll never hit for average or walk enough to be a productive major leaguer. All prospects in the minor leagues need to improve in some area or another before they get called up to the bigs. Most never make the adjustments and flame out, but that doesn't mean they were never prospects in the first place. Farris is certainly a prospect and no one here is saying he'll be an All Star. They're just saying that like all prospects, he has the chance to have a big league career if he shows improvement as he climbs the ladder.

[DHonks]

I know I have a bit of a different perspective on backup types or role players. I don't really pay attention to OPS for SS, 2b, CF, and C. It's great to have a good OPS, but I instead look for OBP out of those spots. So for me, guys like Farris or Iribarren could one day be starters.

[Never Outhustled]

I think the most exciting ranking was Rivas with best change-up. Before the season he was billed as a good fastball/slider guy that might fit best as a reliever down the road. A vastly improved chage-up would explain is outstanding performance so far. His control could improve a little, but that is something that should just happen naturally as he gains experience. He's made as big of jump as any Brewers prospect this year.

 

 

X, based on your opinion of Farris, I have no idea what it takes to be a "prospect" in your mind.

I think my MO is rather simple. If a player can't hit, it makes their speed inconsequential. He's Juan Pierre without the bat

 

 

While he'll likely never hit for power, it's too early to conclusively say he'll never hit for average or walk enough to be a productive major leaguer

This isn't some young, inexperienced player. He's 23, he started for 3 years in college, and is now a 3rd year pro. Even guys that are late bloomers like Heether were way better hitters at this level.