Melvin Press Conference, 3:00 PM CT

[Baldkin]

I sure listen to the Managers Corner on a regular basis. I'd link it... but its very not work safe.

[The Truth]

joepepsi - count me in as a big Earl Weaver fan. Besides his genius, he was extremely entertaining while arguing with umpires, too... He definitely did not play favorites with his players and demanded production.

[TooLiveBrew]

You want Earl Weaver.

 

How did you know?! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I'd settle for Davey Johnson or...

 

 

Acta is available

 

I don't know much about Acta, but I am definitely willing to take your word on it, Tim. I would like to learn more about him, however.

 

 

Of all the baseball players and coaches and scouts who spend time studying the game, playing the game, etc. there has to be more than the 40 or 50 names that always seem to be mentioned.

 

Yeah, that's part of what I was getting at. Why are the same uninspiring choices regurgitated again, and again? Likely because people just listen to Baseball People who know how to Play The Game The Right Way shout them down.

 

 

I do think though it starts with finding a replacement for Melvin.

 

Sadly, I think this is probably true FtJ. I feel kinda bittersweet about thinking the end of Melvin's time might not only be near, but also a helpful change for the Crew.

[logan82]

Interesting Haudricourt interview on Homer's radio show. Link

 

Sounds like Macha doesn't like his decisions questioned. Almost to the point of Haudricourt not asking them. That would explain why we never had much of an explanation for Kendall batting leadoff. Haudricourt also mentions Beene brought down lineups for Macha to use in Oakland. Homer talks about how odd many of Macha;s lineup decisions for Thuresday were.

[JJHardy7]

I do like some of the thoughts here in regard to a new manager...I've posted more than a few times I wasn't a fan. I know the manager doesn't 'matter' a ton in terms of wins and losses, but where are those posts on this thread? Macha is getting closer and closer to Yost-like hate. Earlier in the year posts would've been brought up about how a manager really won't make an average team a great one. I think the main problem is Macha simply won't put the players in the best position to succeed...he should be fired today IMO. IMO there is clearly a major issue in the front office that needs to get resolved sooner rather than later. While the Brewers minor league talent may lack top guys, 3 of the top prospects are/were in AAA recently...you need a manager that embraces that. The Gamel situation is something like 'How to Destroy a Prospect for Dummies'.

[TheCrew07]

I have no problem with people saying that Hardy's peak value was after 2008. I have a huge problem with people saying Hardy should have been traded. We don't know what Melvin was offered if anything. You make a decision on how much you think a player is worth and if you don't get what you think is fair value, you hang onto the guy.

I'm not sure I understand why you are separating out those 2 ideas. There is risk in any trade and any time a team hands a job over to a prospect, we just never know exactly what we're going to get. Will he hit right away? Will he struggle for a month? A year? 2 years? Will he ever hit? On the hand there was also significant risk in not making a move... it was clear the organization wasn't going to spend money on him with Escobar waiting, so what was the best possible return DM was going to get for Hardy? 2 years worth of production + 2 draft picks or would a pitcher(s) + Escobar have been the best return?

 

I made my case as many different ways as I could logically think of trying to explain it. Of course we don't know who was offered, if anyone was offered, but DM's trade history (going all the way back to his time in Texas) gives us enough track record to suggest that if he was looking, he was probably looking for proven MLB pitching. There's certainly great risk in trading for pitching prospects and of course drafting pitchers given their injury frequency, so I understand why DM tends to pick up "sure things" when it comes to pitching. However, if an organization doesn't have any pitching talent at some point they have to address the issue or we end exactly up where we are today.

 

It irks the hell out of me that everyone in the organization keeps pointing to Jones and Rogers... we only had a hand full of high ceiling pitchers in the entire organization for goodness sake, of course some are going to get hurt or flame out. Look at the system today... we have high ceiling arms from A+ all the way down through the AZL Brewers. The issue is/was clearly quantity of projectable arms, not the injury rate... I'd rather they just admit the mistake and move on instead of pointing at injuries to 2 pitchers as the reason for our pitcher issues. Like it's some great surprise that a young pitcher got hurt? Rogers hadn't pitched in 2 full seasons, Braddock hadn't made it through a complete season, Jones has been injured and rehabbing for ever...

 

DM has had years to fix the problem and nothing has gotten done, if Parra wouldn't have made it back we'd be even worse off than we already are. I'm not sure why this keeps getting spun like it should have been addressed this last off season, is it just because it's obvious now? Because honestly this situation should have been addressed years ago. This situation was entirely predictable, looking back I wasn't concerned enough and I didn't really start beating the drum until last season when we had some depth we could move. I've liked the idea of a rotation of 5 #2 type pitchers, or 3 #2s and a couple of #3s for a very long time. I've been of the opinion that young #2 pitchers were the best value in baseball. I've never been into acquiring an "Ace" or building around an ace, I've wanted to build around a core of young quality pitching.

 

The problem of course is that if DM would have traded any of the young players the standard, "Same ole Brewers, get a good young player and trade him" comments would have started. Every time someone suggests moving one of those players on this site those type of posts pop up, I can only imagine what the outcry would have been on local radio and around town in the Milwaukee area if one of our current young position players would have been traded. It wouldn't have been a PR savvy move, but it would have been baseball savvy. I think too many people around here want everything both ways, they want to DM to acquire pitching, but they don't want to give up anything of value to get it. Unfortunately even bad GMs aren't that bad, it's not realistic to expect to hold onto every young player and yet acquire meaningful pieces where we are short. Hopefully someday we have too much pitching and can move pitching for hitting, it seems to be much easier to swing deals in that direction.

[logan82]

I'm not sure I understand why you are separating out those 2 ideas.

 

Mostly because we don't know if DM got a decent offer for Hardy. We don't know if he was offered a middle of the rotation guy or a prospect. DM was probably looking for a guy with MLB experience as you pointed out. We don't know if a guy like that was offered. Anybody who would have traded for Hardy would more than likely be a team that thought they were playofff contenders or it would make little sense to trade for him. I doubt a team like that would want to trade a decent pitcher.

[TheCrew07]

So the problem as you see it is simply we don't know if Melvin shopped him and what the offers were for? However, you agree that given his history he was probably looking for MLB pitching coming back. I think the MLB talent coming back is the biggest issue here, if he's not able to get a top of rotation pitcher already in MLB, then he should have lowered his sights and started looking talented at prospects who would be in AA this season who could have helped as injury depth this season and have made the jump next season. Why not a different trade for a player like Niemann as depth as I pointed out when Wright was acquired? The whole world knew the Rays were going have a surplus of quality arms. Did he even call to inquire who the Rays were willing to move and what it would cost? What good are Wright or Green as depth? Niemann was a better pitcher, is a better pitcher, and throws much harder than either and wasn't able to crack that rotation. Jackson was traded off... there were possibilities out there besides Sabathia and Looper.

 

If a MLB pitcher isn't available, then he's got to target projectable prospects, it's simply unacceptable to point to some key injuries as an excuse... injuries happen to pitchers in every organization. Rogers got hurt 3 years ago, Jones in 2003 or 2004, Braddock has never pitched a full season... it's not like this situation caught DM by surprise, he should have seen it coming and have done something to remedy it. It's true we don't know what deals were out there, but he hasn't acquired a single pitcher with top of the rotation stuff since 2003. I feel he missed badly for Overbay with Toronto, we've seen other teams swing deals pitching, but the Brewers stand pat and make mediocre FA acquisitions and rental trades that plug holes but do not address the fundamental issue with the organization, which is the lack of top of the rotation talent above A+. Maybe he couldn't get anything for Hardy (which I'm skeptical of, especially when a trade is expanded to a 3 way deal), I think it's much more likely that he wanted to ride out Hardy and that he hasn't been actively seeking projectable pitching, because that's what his history as a GM suggests.

[logan82]

You seem to be saying that "Melvin should have traded JJ, period." That makes no sense whatsoever.

[Postseason2006]

Why do people keep assuming that Melvin never "got" any offers but yet, somehow have the crystal ball knowing he didn't get offered anything?

 

At least those of us can point to his bad track record in Texas for his lack of focus on what is needed to win.

 

I for one hope he's gone so he can't pick up another Suppan after next year and sign someone else to what he paid Hall.

[giffted1]

At least those of us can point to his bad track record in Texas for his lack of focus on what is needed to win.

You're talking about the Texas Rangers that had their only 3 postseason appearances under Melvin's watch, right? If anything, Melvin has a track record of bringing playoff baseball to long-suffering clubs.

[Postseason2006]

And they have only 1 playoff win out of all that. Maybe listing all the facts and show he did little to improve the pitching besides over paying for John Wetteland.

 

I bet the Rangers are still jumping for joy with that big one win in 3 postseason appearances.

[giffted1]

And they have only 1 playoff win out of all that. Maybe listing all the facts and show he did little to improve the pitching besides over paying for John Wetteland.

You don't make the playoffs with bad pitching, and when you make the playoffs, anything can happen. I'm not sure how you could begin to formulate an argument that Melvin had a "bad track record" in Texas.

I bet the Rangers are still jumping for joy with that big one win in 3 postseason appearances.

I'm sure they would have much rather spent their early October's at home with their families. Winning the division 3 out of 8 years: what a disappointment.

[Postseason2006]

So I guess Mike Sherman was a good coach then?

 

And if you are one of the Top 8 teams in the terms of payroll, shouldn't you be winning, especially more than 1 playoff game in 8 years. If that by your terms is good then I would hate to find out what average is.

[logan82]

Why do people keep assuming that Melvin never "got" any offers but yet, somehow have the crystal ball knowing he didn't get offered anything?

 

Nobody is making that assumption.

[TooLiveBrew]

And if you are one of the Top 8 teams in the terms of payroll, shouldn't you be winning, especially more than 1 playoff game in 8 years. If that by your terms is good then I would hate to find out what average is.

 

It's almost like you're going to just nitpick on any counterpoint instead of making a substantiated argument. Melvin has shown he has a good understanding of how to build competitive teams. If you want to pick apart every single detail you see fit to mock, you can tear down just about any GM. So if by your terms only GMs that consistently build above-average offenses along with above-average pitching is what's acceptable, you're going to be disappointed constantly.

[davego]

I'd take 3 division titles in 8 years...

 

Those Texas teams ran into the Yankees when they were really flying high.

[lukevan]

So I guess Mike Sherman was a good coach then?

How does Sherman as a coach in any way compare to Melvin as a GM? How does football have anything to do with baseball?

[Postseason2006]

If you didn't realize that Sherman as coach and a GM got the Packers to the playoffs with a 2-5 record I believe.