Melvin Press Conference, 3:00 PM CT

[logan82]

I don't remember if it was TLB or myself that brought it up first, but I can see why Billy Beene had problems with Macha.

[JJHardy7]

You seem to have watched play some. What are your opinions of his defense? I am going only off what Money said about him and what scouts have said, which are not always the most encouraging. His caught stealing numbers are up but I do not know about the rest of his game.

I'm still on the fence. I know some see me as a huge minor league guy and such, but I'm just not 100% sold on Salome either way. I do think his bat will play, but honestly if he was >>> than Kendall he'd be up now. There's a legit reason why he is not IMO. It's not a knock on Salome...I do like him, but I think all of Kendall's experience has to count for something, right? It'd be a terrible time to make that move. I think that Salome could be the starter next year, but how many times has he caught guys that will be in the rotation? Yo, Parra, Bush, Suppan, Looper....that number is very, very small. I'd rather have spring training to work on that. If we're losing game because of Kendall specifically, it'd be a different issue. If pitching is the problem, I don't see how Salome, Lucroy, or Corporan helps that. I've stated before that if Salome isn't ready I think Corporan might be in Milwaukee next year. I think he's somewhat under rated in most circles...not that he'll be an all-star, but he's a MLB catcher. Catching is always a hot topic here...I believe there were many singing the praises of how great Rivera was last year...that's changed a little bit.

They are also better players. Kendall is playing because he's a veteran.

You can't state that like fact. Nobody knows if they're better players. The 'it can't be worse' thing doesn't always carry a ton of weight IMO. I still think that the actual catching aspect of being a catcher does have some significance. Kendall's bat isn't good, but stating Rivera and Salome are better is off base. Kendall seems like the whipping boy around here and I understand why to a certain extent, but Kendall is not the reason why the team is where they are...especially when there is not a replacement that has proven they're better. Let's not forget Salome has been hurt quite a bit this year and as posted in the minor league thread has/had an injury which pretty much would completely disregard him being called up.

[JoeHova]

How does it make sense to say that Kendall is not hurting the team with his awful play? Sure, the team's disappointing play can't all be laid at the feet of one guy, but Kendall is an enormous part of the problem. The pitching is bad, but having a better offense would also be helpful. A terrible player is a terrible player, no matter what position he is playing.

 

Also, "it can't be worse" does carry weight to me. There is almost no downside to making a move with Kendall (as has been shown when the team dumped comparably terrible players like Bennett and Moeller) and there may be significant upside.

 

If Jason Kendall is not replaceable, then no veteran ever deserves to be replaced.

[LouisEly]

Seriously, how can a GM and the manager he just hired before the start of this season have such a disconnect in terms of what is best for this team?

 

When Macha signed the contract did he not understand what the teams philosophy was going to be?

 

That's because at the beginning of the season the team had a totally different philosophy. It was a veteran team and if Hardy/Hart/Hall/Kendall/Parra had stats more towards their career averages/trends and had Weeks/Bush not gotten hurt, this team would be in a totally different mode. (Not to mention the underperformance of the bench, forcing the acquisition of Gerut and Catalanotto.) They would have no need for Gamel or Escobar. But now due to the injuries to Weeks/Bush and the underperformance of Hall/Hardy/Hart/Kendall they are probably at least 10 games of not more worse than they should be and thus in a position where they need to see if Escobar/Gamel/Salome/Bourgeois are better than what they had planned on going into next year with.

[kramnoj]

How does it make sense to say that Kendall is not hurting the team with his awful play

 

Who has said this? Kendall is hurting this team with his play. But it's not clear that any available replacement would actually be better right now.

 

If Jason Kendall is not replaceable, then no veteran ever deserves to be replaced.

 

Nobody has said that he is not replaceable, just that our current options aren't better. I hope that we are able to get a veteran to a one year deal for a mil or less for 2010. If I thought that Damian Miller could come back and be better right now, I would support that too.

[endaround]

I just don't see Kendall coming back when Miller who was willing to be a backup was let go after having a season that while bad was still light years ahead of Kendall's. Damian Miller's last season .237 .296 .349, Jason Kendall right now .228 .315 .277.

[JJHardy7]

How does it make sense to say that Kendall is not hurting the team with his awful play? Sure, the team's disappointing play can't all be laid at the feet of one guy, but Kendall is an enormous part of the problem. The pitching is bad, but having a better offense would also be helpful. A terrible player is a terrible player, no matter what position he is playing.

I didn't say he's not hurting the team...or if you took it that way I didn't mean it. My point is you could probably put almost any catcher in the world in his spot and the difference wouldn't be all that crazy. Blaming Kendall for the team's season is like blaming Castro for the pitching.

Also, "it can't be worse" does carry weight to me. There is almost no downside to making a move with Kendall (as has been shown when the team dumped comparably terrible players like Bennett and Moeller) and there may be significant upside.

How is there upside? Who are you bringing up? We have MLB ready guys in the minors at catcher? That's my point...you can say 'Suppan sucks'...well maybe he does, maybe he's average...who cares...who is going to save the day? It's easy to say a player isn't playing well...but simply picking a guy and saying there's 'upside' isn't always true. I have nothing against Salome, but I would encourage you to stand next to the guy before you make these claims...I've stated before I wish him the best and I have nothing against him...at all...he's tiny though. I'm not a tall guy and I'm quite a bit taller than him...whether you like it or not that could potentially have physical limitations. And you want to call up Lucroy up to the bigs? Why? Rivera is the answer? There just simply isn't a guy that you can name and say 'oh he's SO much better than Kendall' in all aspects of the game IMO. Again, I hope if we're out of it in September Salome plays a ton. I just don't think that'll put us in first place.

If Jason Kendall is not replaceable, then no veteran ever deserves to be replaced.

Again...go to the minor league forum. Salome has/had a pretty signifcant injury (that I won't disclose here because it maybe shouldn't have been disclosed in the first place) as to why he wouldn't be called up. Look at the games Salome has missed this year...he still needs to grow defensively. I like Salome....I'm on the fence about the position, but his work ethic is awesome. I still think he's 'off the list' to replace Kendall who apparently is the worst player to ever play for the Brewers. Why bump Lucroy from AA to MLB? Does that make the Brewers a playoff team? No IMO. So you can play Rivera...fine play him. That's not going to change anything really. I'm sure others have better links to stats and such, but my guess is Kendall is a bad, bad hitter, but compared to other catchers he's not 'that bad'. In other words, it's not like he's playing in the OF, 1B, or 3B. And again, all these great ideas to call up kids from the minors...most have never caught any of our pitchers in Milwaukee. I don't see how that helps things...I think it could hurt things.

[TheCrew07]

I missed the presser as I was on the football field, the gist I get from reading this thread is that they called up Escobar to platoon? What kind of garbage is that? I agree with those that they say this is Gamel all over again, except that Gamel never got his shot to platoon. It makes no sense to call up top prospects and put them on the bench. I hope I'm just reading too much into what was said but if I read this thread correctly I'm done with Macha, I'm sorry but he has no business managing a team that's going to have a yearly influx of young talent for the foreseeable future.

 

I'll throw a name out there I've always liked, Davey Johnson. I know people were critical of his moves in the WBC, but that might the be the single most crappy job in baseball, because every team wants to have a say about their specific players, he's trying to get everyone work like it's spring training, so he ends up managing to please instead of to win.

[PeaveyFury]

the gist I get from reading this thread is that they called up Escobar to platoon?

 

They said Escobar would play 5 of 7 days a week, or there abouts.

[MNBrew]

Macha should be fired for insubordination. Bring Don Money in and end it Doug.

Or move Randolph over to MGR and promote Don Money to be the Bench Coach.

 

Heck, I'd just settle for the entire rotation figuring out how to pitch with serious cajones again. This business of "I was cruising along but I lost my command again and I have no idea how to regain it" is ridiculous. They seem to have become a very well-meaning but largely passive group. I hope Bosio's style provides the serious kick in the butt they seem to need.

 

Seriously, though, I do believe these moves were needed for this team to start to have a chance. If they don't regain any semblance of killer instinct to not just put away but bury opponents, it's a total lost cause.

[TooLiveBrew]

My head is just spinning. I have no idea what to make of this, but I have to agree Melvin's got about another step or two left on the plank. I've enjoyed his time as GM of this team, but after the Gamel fiasco & seemingly really bad hire of Macha, I can't say the Brewers couldn't stand to improve. Trouble is, I'm not very confident in Attanasio's hiring ability.

 

Uuuggghhhh. Just a horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible season. Screwed Gamel's development, fired a pitching coach who took the heat for bad FA signings (Suppan, Looper) & injury (Bush), and now we're apparently going to repeat the mistake made in starting Hardy's service-time clock with Escobar?

 

I wonder what must be going through Bruce Seid's mind at the moment. Guy just gets his big break to be a scouting director, and now... this.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

One of the things that bothered me was that he even mentioned injuries to Soup and Bush. They have combined for 8 wins in 35 starts. The equivalent of one starter for an entire year. You can't chalk up 8 wins to bad luck, or lack of run support, or any other excuse. The fact that they can't even equal the "8 win" talent level with replacements is what is alarming. It's not as though soup and bush were pitching deep into games either. They taxed the bullpen more than the IRS.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't remember if it was TLB or myself that brought it up first, but I can see why Billy Beane had problems with Macha.

I don't remember either, but yeah. Macha is clearly all about the vets. Maybe he can get a job on Joe Torre's coaching staff after this season is over. If Mattingly gets hired for some odd reason (like an org. believing a bench coach has anything to do with team success), there's the perfect fit for Ken! He could stroke Torre's ego by agreeing that batting his (at worst) 2nd-best hitter 7th makes sense, because he's just a young guy! (Kemp)

[TooLiveBrew]

I apologize for back-to-back posts, but I'm requesting a flyer on that given today's events... I don't really know what thread in which this is best suited, but I'll go with here:

 

 

Can the Brewers please get creative with a new manager next season? And I'm not talking about simply replacing Macha. I want to see someone perhaps from the minors, with no MLB "track record" (aka: manages just like every other dolt; doesn't 'trust' young players, whatever that is even supposed to mean; etc.). Show us some initiative here, Brewers. Give me someone who understands sample sizes... someone who can recognize good talent, good performance & not just gritty battlers (which I'm almost positive directly translates to 'out makers')... someone who isn't predisposed to playing veterans... someone who understands that the media will ask you annoying questions, and that dealing with that actually is part of your job... someone who understands that being a 'tough guy' & yelling at players doesn't make them play better... someone who's just, well, different from every other vanilla manager.

 

Honestly. Given recent comments from MLB pitchers like Brian Bannister & Max Scherzer, I know there are possible managerial candidates out there that 'get' the newer ways to look at the game, both statistically & strategically. I know there are potential candidates that understand a manager's mission statement should be 'to put [his] players in the best possible situations in which to succeed, and do so as much as possible' -- not 'play veterans because they're my security blanket & they deserve it because they're baseball guys & they play The Game The Right Way'. I know there are potential candidates that understand all they really need to do to be effective is fill out something close to resembling the 'right' lineup on a daily basis, play proper hitting & pitching matchups as often as possible, and argue calls/defend your players. There's no reason to manage to try to keep your job, as Macha has aptly proven with his ineptitude -- and how much job security does Macha ever feel if that's his primary m.o.?

 

Perhaps this is an ill-timed rant. Perhaps my logic & wishes are full of holes that will get crushed by the legion of knowledgeable posters in this community. But for the love of Yount, Molitor, Aaron, Mathews and Spahn, can we see a different approach in Milwaukee? Our owner may meddle a bit much for my tastes, but the one thing that makes me hold out hope is that, ultimately, he's made his way in life by being great with numbers. Please, please, please bring that to the dugout, Mark. And please, keep it in the front office, as well.

[tigerbrew]

Wow, I didn't have time to watch the brewers for a week and return to learn of this bloodletting by DM. I think DM has as much to blame as the players, he failed to improve the rotation after CC left. Most pundits had predicted that the brewers will not make postseason due to SP, so what's happening now isn't a surprise to most non brewers fans.

 

We know that good pitching is essential to success, but we went into the season with a weaker rotation than the Cubs and Cards. Instead of being concerned and aggressive in improving pitching during preseason, DM seems unbothered, thinking that he could get a better deal closer to trade deadline. I think the postseason goal was driven on hope rather than realism when DM didn't assemble a pitching staff good enough right from the start.

 

Seems to me, Castro and JJ are scapegoats for DM's failings to address pitching.

[Fatter than Joey]

Perhaps my logic & wishes are full of holes that will get crushed by the legion of knowledgeable posters in this community.

 

Not on my watch, I'll be your wookie.

 

Our owner may meddle a bit much for my tastes, but the one thing that makes me hold out hope is that, ultimately, he's made his way in life by being great with numbers.

 

I have often thought that Mark A. looks like a muppet, and generally speaking, guys that look like muppets that are rolling in the dough, are doing so because they are pretty sharp.

 

The one thing to remember, that Mark A., did not hire DM, and I don't think he would be MA's first choice -- however, I think there is no denying, that he gave DM plenty of time and space. I really don't think MA is meddling for the sake of meddling -- I think he is trying to avoid another crappy August of Brewer baseball.

 

I really appreciate your desire to find a "new-school" manager instead of the "middle-school" managers we have had the last few years. I have a lot of hope that since Mark A. isn't an institutionalized "baseball guy" he might be more able to think outside the box.

 

I do think though it starts with finding a replacement for Melvin.

[Postseason2006]

Amazing that this is like the Packers under Sherman. Basically, Melvin is playing the role of Sherman and Macha is playing the role of Brett Favre.

 

Again, I said last year Kremblas got the raw deal when all this happened. Castro had ZERO business as the pitching coach.

[clancyphile]

Sure, how about Davey Lopes? Tom Treblehorn?

Trebelhorn posted a 422-397 record as Brewers manager and a .515 winning percentage. Not too shabby, if you ask me. I'm all for a second Trebelhorn era at manager.

[cwolf2012]

I apologize for back-to-back posts, but I'm requesting a flyer on that given today's events... I don't really know what thread in which this is best suited, but I'll go with here:

Acta is available. He has shown a very strong inclination for sabermetrics and going against the status quo. His team just sucked.

[clancyphile]

Wow, I didn't have time to watch the brewers for a week and return to learn of this bloodletting by DM. I think DM has as much to blame as the players, he failed to improve the rotation after CC left. Most pundits had predicted that the brewers will not make postseason due to SP, so what's happening now isn't a surprise to most non brewers fans.

 

We know that good pitching is essential to success, but we went into the season with a weaker rotation than the Cubs and Cards. Instead of being concerned and aggressive in improving pitching during preseason, DM seems unbothered, thinking that he could get a better deal closer to trade deadline. I think the postseason goal was driven on hope rather than realism when DM didn't assemble a pitching staff good enough right from the start.

 

Seems to me, Castro and JJ are scapegoats for DM's failings to address pitching.

I have to agree vis-a-vis Hardy. After 2008, DM needed to make a decision on Hardy, and punted. Post-2008 was the time to either trade Hardy for pitching, or to sign him to a deal through 2015 or longer. If the latter, then give Escobar plenty of time at second base in Nashville. At the very least, it meant the Crew would not have to make the "panic trade" for Lopez, that cost them an OF prospect with OBP skills the major-league club needed.

 

As for Castro... to be honest, when one of the team's top prospects goes off the tracks as spectacularly as Parra did, and it takes the AAA pitching coach to get him somewhat turned around, that's enough to raise questions. Tack on the fact that on his watch a couple of starters pitched hurt (which is somewhat on them, but his tenure as bullpen coach ON THE BREWERS meant he should have been able to pick up that something wasn't right), and he probably had to go.

 

Doug Melvin did not have a Plan B if Sabathia walked. Letting Maddux walk was another huge mistake.

[MJLiverock]

I'm with TLB on his thoughts about a potential next manager whenever that may be. I don't want another retread who sticks to the same old formulas of veteran gritty guys and only using your best reliever in save situations in the 9th even if the it is the bottom of the order instead of heaven forbid in the 8th against the meat of the order with guys on base. No guys worrying about clogging up the basepaths so he has to put fast crappy hitters at the top of the lineup. Of all the baseball players and coaches and scouts who spend time studying the game, playing the game, etc. there has to be more than the 40 or 50 names that always seem to be mentioned.

 

There has to be someone willing to try a new approach, football has innovations all the time in team approach, constructions, offense/defense philosophy, yet baseball managers seem to come from the same factory chugging out similar models year after year with little tweaks here and there regarding basepath philosophy.

[logan82]

I have no problem with people saying that Hardy's peak value was after 2008. I have a huge problem with people saying Hardy should have been traded. We don't know what Melvin was offered if anything. You make a decision on how much you think a player is worth and if you don't get what you think is fair value, you hang onto the guy.

 

Of course we would have gotten more for Hardy last offseason even if Hardy would have had a good year this year. Escobar was and still is far from a sure thing. Hardy was and still is a pretty safe bet to be a solid MLB SS.

[The Truth]

I'd like to see Don Money get serious consideration as the Brewers next manager

[logan82]

I actually agree with FTJ. As long as Melvin is the GM we can probably expect more of the same.

 

I also agree with TLB.

 

Can the Brewers please get creative with a new manager next season? And I'm not talking about simply replacing Macha. I want to see someone perhaps from the minors, with no MLB "track record" (aka: manages just like every other dolt; doesn't 'trust' young players, whatever that is even supposed to mean; etc.). Show us some initiative here, Brewers. Give me someone who understands sample sizes... someone who can recognize good talent, good performance & not just gritty battlers (which I'm almost positive directly translates to 'out makers')... someone who isn't predisposed to playing veterans... someone who understands that the media will ask you annoying questions, and that dealing with that actually is part of your job... someone who understands that being a 'tough guy' & yelling at players doesn't make them play better... someone who's just, well, different from every other vanilla manager.

[joepepsi]

I know there are possible managerial candidates out there that 'get' the newer ways to look at the game, both statistically & strategically. I know there are potential candidates that understand a manager's mission statement should be 'to put [his] players in the best possible situations in which to succeed, and do so as much as possible' -- not 'play veterans because they're my security blanket & they deserve it because they're baseball guys & they play The Game The Right Way'. I know there are potential candidates that understand all they really need to do to be effective is fill out something close to resembling the 'right' lineup on a daily basis, play proper hitting & pitching matchups as often as possible, and argue calls/defend your players. There's no reason to manage to try to keep your job, as Macha has aptly proven with his ineptitude -- and how much job security does Macha ever feel if that's his primary m.o.?

You want Earl Weaver. I've always been frustrated that no one seemed to learn from his genius. The "newer ways" you seek were being used by Weaver 40 years ago. To me he is clearly the greatest manager ever.

 

He took mediocre 32 year old White Sox reject Don Buford and told him all he wanted was Buford to drew 90 walks a year. Don't worry about anything else he told him, just draw walks and get on base. Buford went from a .6xx OPS White Sox to 4 straight seasons of .800+ OPS for the Orioles.

 

He rejected the 5 man rotation with a simple question: why start your 5th best pitcher on the team when you could start your Ace? Instead he took the time to use off days and the occasional spot start by a reliever to make sure his 4 starters got plenty of rest.

 

His theory of pitching, defense, and the 3 run homer is often ridiculed by the like of McCarver and Morgan as playing station to station offense. But that's not true. The 3 run homer is all about OBP; if you constantly have runners on base, big things will happen.

 

Weaver's entire tenure with the Orioles is full of such examples. I don't understand why other don't emulate him.