JJ Hardy optioned to AAA- Latest: Per McCalvy, JJ will be left at AAA and add another year before free agency

[DougJones43]

How long would Hardy need to stay down in order to earn the extra year before FA? If it's only a short time needed, and that's the reason for this move, then I will agree I jumped the gun on what may be a shrewd move.

[endaround]

The rest of the month should do it.

[Fatter than Joey]

Unless of course Melvin is now fixing his mistake. Hardy to AAA for one month buying a year of service time.

 

The problem with this line of thinking though, is that from a trade standpoint -- If JJ spends the rest of the year in AAA, why would a team be that concerned about getting a second year of JJ?

 

At this point, JJ is not going to get a big payday after his arby years -- 1 to 2 years could be a total non-issue.

 

Also consider:

 

If a player is sent to the minor leagues on optional assignment for a total of 20 days or less during a season, he receives service time for the entire season.

[brewcrew7]

This shows me how much love there there still is for Hardy. People are banging away on Kendall, Hall, Hart but still say this is a dumb move. Regardless of service time you have to produce and he has been nothing short of awful. This should of been done some time ago but they were trying to build some value for him but it never came. Seeing he wasn't going to be our SS next year, I think we need to get Escobar some playing time at the big league level to get him somewhat prepared for next year. We tried to wait but enough is enough already.

 

Finally we decided to look past the money and get rid of players based on performance. I now have renewed interest to at least watch the remaining games even if we have little chance of making the playoffs.

[Never Outhustled]

Yeah, Hardy needs to have less than 172 days of service time this year, and the season is 183 days long.

 

This still doesn't explain why Escobar was called up. Just play Counsel until Ecsobar can hit.

[JoeHova]

If there's no trade, then this could have huge implications for J.J. Hardy.

 

This is the first time he's ever been optioned. He was added to the 40-man roster just before the 2005 season.

 

So he will not have the necessary big league service time (six years) in order to become a free agent after the 2010 season.

 

Amazingly, he may have to wait until after 2011 now before becoming a free agent.

This is an interesting point and one I didn't think of. However, I still don't know that it helps JJ's trade value to get demoted. Maybe it does. Either way, he should be gone after this season.

[cwolf2012]

Yeah, Hardy needs to have less than 172 days of service time this year, and the season is 183 days long.

 

This still doesn't explain why Escobar was called up. Just play Counsel until Ecsobar can hit.

Counsell is not an every day player. Why not give Escobar a shot to see what he can do? The guy is going to be our future SS, why mess around and have him and JJ on the same roster in AAA?

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

If they don't trade Hardy, it tells me they have no idea which SS they want to go with. Why delay JJ's free agency and potentially hurt trade value if they knew Escobar was their guy?

[jjfanec]

Yeah, Hardy needs to have less than 172 days of service time this year, and the season is 183 days long.

 

This still doesn't explain why Escobar was called up. Just play Counsel until Ecsobar can hit.

Except who is your backup SS then? Counsell can play there but McGehee cannot and people are saying Lopez has a bad hammy and cannot. Counsell has been nicked up as well. We would have absolutely no depth and it is not like Escobar needs to be Hanley Ramirez with the stick if he can hit close to what he was in AAA with his defense he is very valuable.

[endaround]

Yeah, Hardy needs to have less than 172 days of service time this year, and the season is 183 days long.

 

This still doesn't explain why Escobar was called up. Just play Counsel until Ecsobar can hit.

Except who is your backup SS then? Counsell can play there but McGehee cannot and people are saying Lopez has a bad hammy and cannot. Counsell has been nicked up as well. We would have absolutely no depth and it is not like Escobar needs to be Hanley Ramirez with the stick if he can hit close to what he was in AAA with his defense he is very valuable.

 

Yeah he could be JJ Hardy this year even!

[Never Outhustled]

Why not give Escobar a shot to see what he can do?

We know what Escobar can do. He's been hovering around a 770 OPS for months now. That translates to a sub 700 OPS in the majors. How does that help us? Counsel could have platooned with Hall. There was no reason to DFA Hall now. That could have been done later.

[homer]

Just play Counsel until Ecsobar can hit.

 

You might be waiting a while. I think he's about as ready as he's going to be.

[Fatter than Joey]

How long would Hardy need to stay down in order to earn the extra year before FA? If it's only a short time needed, and that's the reason for this move, then I will agree I jumped the gun on what may be a shrewd move.

 

At least 20 days -- If JJ is down for under 20 days, he gets credit for the whole season.

[Roscoe Chill]

I kind of wonder if maybe this was a move discussed with another team? For instance, maybe the Brewers and Red Sox were having discussions about Hardy, and they would part with a better return if he was under control for another year?

 

Boston is an organization that is pretty shrewd in money matters like that.

 

Just a thought (hope).

[gobrew23]

If this does get an extra year of service for JJ then I don't see how this hurts his value. Teams still can see what numbers he has produced over the last three years and if they think he can bounce back they will be getting 2 years of JJ not one.

[sheethead]

Yeah, Hardy needs to have less than 172 days of service time this year, and the season is 183 days long.

 

This still doesn't explain why Escobar was called up. Just play Counsel until Ecsobar can hit.

So what does Escobar need to do in AAA to show you he can hit? .330? .380? .850 OPS? I would put money on him hitting better than Hardy has hit this year.

[Never Outhustled]

You might be waiting a while. I think he's about as ready as he's going to be.

If this is the best he'll ever hit, he shouldn't be in our plans at all, but I don't share your opinion. I think Escobar will be a better hitter at 24 than 22. Most importantly, he'll be a better hitter at 29 than 22, but now we won't have him at 29.

[Diskono]

Thanks guys. Is that because this is the first time in JJ's career he has been sent down or is there another distinction between the outright and the option?

Basically, every player gets 3 years in the minors before they need to be added to the 40-man roster (otherwise, they become exposed to the Rule 5 draft). Guys on the 40-man then have 3 option years in which they can be demoted to the minors - if they are on the 25-man roster all season, they don't use up an option year.

 

When a veteran who is out of option years gets sent down, he is outrighted (after being DFA'd).

 

edit: I'm mixing up rules, clarity, etc. at least its not as bad as the NBA's CBA!

[mls4]

Thanks guys. Is that because this is the first time in JJ's career he has been sent down or is there another distinction between the outright and the option?

From Brewerfan.net FAQ: How does "optioning" work?

Generally, after 3 pro seasons, a player must be protected on a club's 40-man roster or he becomes eligible for the Rule 5 draft. Once a player is added to a club's 40-man roster, the club then 3 available option years during which they can place him on "optional assignment" to a minor league club. A player can be sent up and down as many times as the club so chooses within those three seasons. Once a player is "out of options", he must clear "waivers" in order to be sent down again.

• If a player is not sent to the minors during a year, an option is not used.
• If a player is on the 40-man roster in spring training but optioned to the minors before the season is underway, an option is used.
• If an assignment in the minors lasts 20 days, an option is not used.

An outright assignment takes the player off of the 40-man roster and is used when the player is out of options and has cleared waivers.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

I kind of wonder if maybe this was a move discussed with another team? For instance, maybe the Brewers and Red Sox were having discussions about Hardy, and they would part with a better return if he was under control for another year?

 

Boston is an organization that is pretty shrewd in money matters like that.

 

Just a thought (hope).

 

That's an excellent point that I thought of before, too. The return would have to better, wouldn't it?

[TheCrew07]

This still doesn't explain why Escobar was called up. Just play Counsel until Ecsobar can hit.

My friend how does Escobar not know how to hit? He's not hitting for an .800 OPS... but he's not going to be capable of that at the MLB level this season. I don't think it's fair to continually twist his results in this manner, I have a hard time getting onboard with this notion that 15+ HR power is necessary to be called up. What if player like Escobar doesn't reach that point till his 27 year peak season? Do you keep him in the minors until then?

[Fatter than Joey]

I would put money on him hitting better than Hardy has hit this year.

 

I am not picking on you ----

 

but how can we expect Escobar to outhit JJ on one hand, and then on the other hand pretend that JJ has any real trade value (i.e., to net us pitching).

[JoeHova]

but how can we expect Escobar to outhit JJ on one hand, and then on the other hand pretend that JJ has any real trade value (i.e., to net us pitching).

Because both are premium defensive players and JJ has hit in the past and likely will again at some point.

[RockCoCougars]

All I will say is that Escobar better be in the lineup every day. I agree that Salome for Kendall is the next logical move in this progression.

 

Regarding J.J. Hardy, I have to believe that "he gone" within the next day or two. I'm not sure the rule for waiver trades, but there is no way that he went through waivers without being claimed, therefore the trade must be to whomever claimed him correct?

[nate82]

All I will say is that Escobar better be in the lineup every day. I agree that Salome for Kendall is the next logical move in this progression.

 

Regarding J.J. Hardy, I have to believe that "he gone" within the next day or two. I'm not sure the rule for waiver trades, but there is no way that he went through waivers without being closed, therefore the trade must be to whomever claimed him correct?

Hardy wasn't passed through waivers though. Melvin never put Hardy through waivers yet that maybe coming soon though.