JJ Hardy optioned to AAA- Latest: Per McCalvy, JJ will be left at AAA and add another year before free agency

[jeffy]

If only they would do the same thing with Soup...

 

Except, with Soup, it is quite obvious that performance has nothing to do with a starting job and salary has everything to do with it. So Hardy being in AAA doesn't make sense in the way you say it does.

 

No, as has been stated, Suppan's status has to do with lack of viable alternatives. Until he becomes the 13th best pitcher that the Brewer have, he belongs on the roster. Until he becomes the 6th best starter, he should remain a starter.

[Bruce Ciskie]

I'm shocked that there is any serious sympathy for JJ. He made his bed by not hitting the ball. It got to the point where he looked to be taking his crappy at-bats to the field, which only made matters worse.

 

In the end, the Brewers did what was best for the major-league roster. They'll continue to do that, and if JJ Hardy wants to be a part of that, it's all up to him.

[logan82]

I didn't see it linked, but it looks 100% like JJ will be called up on Tuesday. Link

 

Some interesting bits.

 

Since the slumping Hardy was demoted to Triple-A Nashville on Aug. 12, Monday will mark his 20th day in the Minors and thus he'll lose the Major League service time he needed to qualify for free agency after the 2010 season. Instead, Hardy will be eligible for an extra year of arbitration and won't hit the open market until the winter of 2011. If players spend 19 or fewer days in the Minors during the season, their Major League service is unaffected.

There's another side effect: Since he was not on Milwaukee's roster on Aug. 31, Hardy will not be eligible for the postseason roster, should Milwaukee make a run in September.

Would Brewers general manager Doug Melvin understand if Hardy and his agent, Mike Seal, were upset about the timing of Hardy's demotion?

"As long as they understand that we waited a long time for the player," Melvin said. "We carried certain young players -- I won't name them -- when they weren't performing earlier in their careers to help develop them. There are some players who gained some early service time when they didn't perform at this level."

I'm shocked that there is any serious sympathy for JJ.

 

I'm not. JJ is a popular player with many fans and I believe his teammates. I can understand people who feel bad for JJ. I feel a little bad for him. On the other hand, he played terrible so I agree leaving him down is the right choice. Of course I would leave him down for the duration of the MiLB season and not call him up one day after he loses a year of service time.

[endaround]

It would be easier to feel sorry for him if he didn't spend an unneeded rookie year burning service time as a part time palyer and then missing another entire year due to injury. Truth is Hardy should have spent at least one month in AAA his rookie season as soon as Yost stopped playing him everyday.

[TooLiveBrew]

"As long as they understand that we waited a long time for the player," Melvin said. "We carried certain young players -- I won't name them -- when they weren't performing earlier in their careers to help develop them. There are some players who gained some early service time when they didn't perform at this level."

 

The bolded part made me laugh. While I agree with end that Hardy was rushed a bit, what a funny comment from Melvin. 'I won't name JJ, er, them'...

 

(and yes I realize he was probably referring to Weeks as well)

[logan82]

(and yes I realize he was probably referring to Weeks as well)

Probably referring to practically everybody except for Fielder or Braun.

[Ennder]

Of course the reason they brought them up and played them before their stats might have warranted it is most likely to put fans in the seats. Seems to me they rushed them to show the fanbase that the future was coming and to start getting fans to come to the games.

[endaround]

Weeks wasn't rushed so much as forced to play through an injury for no good reason. Weeks was dominating AAA and did fine in Milwaukee until his injury. Hart also was fine in Milwaukee until last season.

[logan82]

I would agree that Hart was ready to play when he came up. The thing is, he didn't play.

[jeffy]

Of course the reason they brought them up and played them before their stats might have warranted it is most likely to put fans in the seats. Seems to me they rushed them to show the fanbase that the future was coming and to start getting fans to come to the games.

Whatever the reason, they got what could be considered undeserved MLB service time on the front end. So, in Hardy's case, they are just sort of making up for that now.

[jeffy]

Hardy will not be eligible for the postseason roster, should Milwaukee make a run in September.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif 12 games out with 32 to play, I don't think this is really an issue.

[Ennder]

Hardy will not be eligible for the postseason roster, should Milwaukee make a run in September.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif 12 games out with 32 to play, I don't think this is really an issue.

 

I don't think it is an issue but there have been bigger September runs than the Brewers would need in the past and by teams that weren't really talented enough to expect it from. The odds are still non-zero that they make it at this point. Of course if they do make some miracle run it probably means Escobar is hitting well and deserves to play in the playoffs anyway~.

[brewizard]

Ah. So Melvin shall giveth and Melvin shall taketh away.

 

Screw job on Hardy. Simple as that.

 

Finding it difficult to like Melvin at all anymore. Yuck.

[trwi7]

Screw job on Hardy. Simple as that.

It's not a screw job. If he didn't want to be sent to the minors, he should've played better.

[jjfanec]

Ah. So Melvin shall giveth and Melvin shall taketh away.

 

Screw job on Hardy. Simple as that.

 

Finding it difficult to like Melvin at all anymore. Yuck.

Your dislike for Melvin is obvious, but even big J.J. fans like myself recognize Hardy did not even deserve to be in the majors as long as he was this year. At first I thought he seemed to be getting unlucky, then he just looked lost and he has not looked much better in AAA. He needs to get his swing figured out and taking time from Escobar is not the answer.

[logan82]

At first I thought he seemed to be getting unlucky, then he just looked lost and he has not looked much better in AAA.

 

At first I think he was unlucky. Then things snowballed from there.

[berniebrewer4life]

Screw job on Hardy. Simple as that.

If anybody got a screw job, it was Mark A, for having to pay Hardy 4.65 million dollars for the lack of production this year. JJ was given the chance to rebound(much longer than he should have been IMO), he never did. He has no one to blame about this than himself.

[Yaz]

Just out of curiosity why wouldn't the Brewers leave Hardy in Nashville til the end of their season? Believe it or not, they might make the postseason. It would give Hardy a chance to get some of his drive back especially if he is contributing in a playoff atmosphere.

 

And this would allow the Brewers to give Escobar more playing time up here. Unless of course they send Escobar back down for Hardy. But why would they even consider doing that? I really think the AAA call-ups aren't going to happen until the end of the Nashville season plays itself out. I just saw Nashville starts a big time series w/ 1st place Memphis tomorrow.

[Ennder]

Screw job on Hardy. Simple as that.

If anybody got a screw job, it was Mark A, for having to pay Hardy 4.65 million dollars for the lack of production this year. JJ was given the chance to rebound(much longer than he should have been IMO), he never did. He has no one to blame about this than himself.

Using simple WAR Hardy was worth 6.5M so far this season because of his defense. He was worth 22.2M last year. This line of reasoning is incredibly weak in general.

[prophet]

Screw job on Hardy. Simple as that.

If anybody got a screw job, it was Mark A, for having to pay Hardy 4.65 million dollars for the lack of production this year. JJ was given the chance to rebound(much longer than he should have been IMO), he never did. He has no one to blame about this than himself.

Using simple WAR Hardy was worth 6.5M so far this season because of his defense. He was worth 22.2M last year. This line of reasoning is incredibly weak in general.

 

Actually i think bernie's reasoning is pretty strong. i think the WAR statistics are incredibly weak. saying someone is "worth" 6.5M or 22.2M doesn't make sense at all. nobody in their right mind would have paid Hardy 6.5 for what he did this year, and definetly wouldn't have paid him 22.2M for what he did last year. the term "worth", means what someone is willing to pay for a good or service. for example, if you have a baseball card, and the beckett price guide says it's "worth" 100 bucks, but the most anyone will give you for it is 50 bucks, then it's actually "worth" 50 bucks.

[trwi7]

Can we please stop using the fangraphs salary? How many of the top free agents are paid what they're "worth" according to that metric? Sabathia was "worth" $34.6M last year, he didn't get a 7 year $242M contract. Mark Teixeira was "worth" $30M last year. He didn't get an 8 year $240M contract.

 

WAR's a good stat, but players aren't paid based on what their WAR is and what that's worth on the free agent market.

[Invader3K]

Yes, I get tired of seeing that salary statistic thrown around too. I think prophet's baseball card analogy is a good one.

 

I just can't believe some feel Hardy is somehow getting "screwed over." Time and again we see teams get "screwed over" by players, and it's "just business." When a team makes a performance based decision which is also a solid business decision, somehow now it's not "just business."

 

Honestly, though, after how often the Brewers have been "screwed over" in the past year since making the post-season for the first time in 26 years, it makes me feel good that they'll actually get a bit of extra compensation (in whatever form) for the good of the franchise.

[Diskono]

Using simple WAR Hardy was worth 6.5M so far this season because of his defense. He was worth 22.2M last year. This line of reasoning is incredibly weak in general.

You can't evaluate individual players in a vacuum though. If Escobar projects to a higher WAR over the season, and Hardy can't/won't play any other positions, you could rightfully say this is purely a baseball move...with both players on the roster, and assuming the manager always picks the better player, Hardy isn't going to accumulate much WAR.

 

(and I know this isn't what you were arguing...I agree that he's earned his salary. but it is at least somewhat dependent on playing time, so plenty of good players are going to have lower WAR)

[Hate those Rodents]

Just out of curiosity, using WAR, how many million would I be worth this year if I played SS with average defense and a .220 stick?

[sheethead]

If anybody got a screw job, it was Mark A, for having to pay Hardy 4.65 million dollars for the lack of production this year. JJ was given the chance to rebound(much longer than he should have been IMO), he never did. He has no one to blame about this than himself.

Using simple WAR Hardy was worth 6.5M so far this season because of his defense. He was worth 22.2M last year. This line of reasoning is incredibly weak in general.

Its replies like this that lead me to believe WAR is nothing more than a fan driven calculation that cannot be justified. 22.2M for Hardy last year? Right. To say that he was worth 6.5M this year further validates the uselessness of this calculation. Hardy's defensive stats are not reflective of the plays that a SS like Ramirez or even Escobar can make that Hardy has no shot at due to his lack of speed and range. 22.2M? Not on my baseball planet.

 

Edit: Regarding keeping Hardy at AAA to gain another year of team control... if the Brewers had fallen out of the race in July, Hardy would have been optioned at that time and the number of days would have been moot. He was brutal this year sans a couple weeks in May. Hardy earned the demotion, and he is not earning his callup. I don't feel badly for Hardy at all, and hopefully Theo is still willing to pony up some players for his services.