JJ Hardy optioned to AAA- Latest: Per McCalvy, JJ will be left at AAA and add another year before free agency

[jeffy]

Hardy doesn't have value at 3B, never really has. Why does this keep coming up? Now Hall should never have been moved out of the infield but that was because neither Braun nor Weeks deserved those spots over Hall at the time.

At the time the team was going to have Hall and Hardy in the infield. What difference would it make to the team which played ss and which played 3b?

 

Anyway, the real point was just bafflement at the comment someone made that Hardy's problems were the result of the Brewers mistreatment of him. Bill Hall is really the only guy who could have made that claim. As you point out he was more deserving of a spot in the IF than several of the favored stars from Huntsville. Even before he sucked, he was always the odd man out.

[JJHardy7]

And that's all distinctly mediocre even ignoring that Hardy's OPS is SLG dominated.

That's your opinion though. That doesn't make it a fact. Posters have posted some numbers that show exactly why JJ has/had value at 3B...his value cleary wasn't zero or nothing. I really respect your posts, but sometimes it just seems they're facts and I guess I just don't agree with them all the time. 3B isn't a huge offensive production positions for some teams right now. I know I'm a bit behind the defensive metrics, but some here have stated that defense is becoming more and more important in terms of value...if offensive value is lower at 3B (guessing here to be honest) is that because defense is more of a priority? I'm just throwing that out there for those that know much, much more about that than I do.

[Invader3K]

Defense is probably behind value for a team like the Brewers than offense and pitching are. Defense is sort of like the last piece of the puzzle. If you don't have the first two, it's largely irrelevant.

[logan82]

I am not sure how much emphasis the Brewers place on defense, but we are 10th in the league in UZR/150. We are closer to being #8 than we are #11.(closer to #6 than #12 as well) The Brewers also had a very solid defensive team in 2008.

[Baldkin]

What would make you think this happy camper isn't enjoying himself down there?

 

http://www.nashvillesounds.com/images/players/hardy.jpg

I'd go with... "My eyes don't pop nearly as well without the blue cap."

[endaround]

Hardy isn't an average 3B though. He would be like 12th and isn't even close to the top guys. Thats why he doesn't have value. He isn't among the Zimmermans, he's among the Mark DeRosa's. Why doesmove Hall and not Hardy? Because Hall played other positions, Hardy hasn't.

[JJHardy7]

Hardy isn't an average 3B though. He would be like 12th and isn't even close to the top guys. Thats why he doesn't have value. He isn't among the Zimmermans, he's among the Mark DeRosa's. Why doesmove Hall and not Hardy? Because Hall played other positions, Hardy hasn't.

Again, it depends what indicators you use to determine where he ranks. Your indicator might not be the way everyone else views him. You do raise a point that nobody knows for sure...can he play 3B? We don't know. I personally feel it would be a really good idea to give him some starts at 3B in AAA and see what happens, but that would mean they'd have to call up Gamel now...that's not going to happen.

Do you think it'd hurt his value if he played some 3B? I'm not saying start him everyday there...maybe once or twice. I don't think JJ has any leverage at this point and time to refuse to play 3B. He needs to focus on getting his career back on track.

[bjkrautk]

Hardy isn't an average 3B though. He would be like 12th and isn't even close to the top guys. Thats why he doesn't have value. He isn't among the Zimmermans, he's among the Mark DeRosa's. Why doesmove Hall and not Hardy? Because Hall played other positions, Hardy hasn't.

How is 12th out of 30 not "average"?

[Crew2323]

In a pregame interview with BA, Macha mentioned that JJ would be back up in a few days. It certainly sounds like he will be a September callup. More than likely before the 20 day minimum.

There are conflicting reports about this. Haudricourt reports, "Macha said one player for sure who would be added is shortstop J.J. Hardy, who was sent down Aug. 12 after struggling at the plate all season." However, McCalvy reports: "Three of the Brewers' early-season power bats are out of the lineup. Second baseman Rickie Weeks (wrist) and right fielder Corey Hart (appendectomy) are on the disabled list, and shortstop J.J. Hardy was demoted to Triple-A Nashville earlier this month amid a prolonged slump. The Brewers don't appear to have any plans to recall Hardy before Sept. 1, meaning he could lose the service time he needs to qualify for free agency following the 2010 season."

 

So which is it? Or are they saying the same thing, but with different predispositions?

[sheethead]

Am I correct in assuming he needs to be brought back on Aug 31 at the latest to not lose service time? I apologize if someone clarified this earlier in the thread, but there are a lot of posts here now.

[Fatter than Joey]

Am I correct in assuming he needs to be brought back on Aug 31 at the latest to not lose service time? I apologize if someone clarified this earlier in the thread, but there are a lot of posts here now.

 

This is sort of unclear -- I think the Brewers are being intentionally vague here. I think if he stays until Sep. 2 -- he definitely loses a year -- if he is recalled before Aug. 31 -- he doesn't -- Aug. 31 and Sep. 1 are sort of a grey area.

[DougJones43]

The should leave him down until the Nashville season is completely finished. I think that's like Sept. 7th? It looks less shady than calling him up the day after he reaches 20 days down, and would lend credibility to the notion that he was actually down there because of performance and to get as much non-pressure hitting work as possible.

[Fatter than Joey]

The should leave him down until the Nashville season is completely finished. I think that's like Sept. 7th?

 

I tend to agree -- I don't see why JJ needs to be taking starts away from Escobar.

 

The more I think about it -- the more I wonder if extending Hardy's service time is a good idea, from a financial standpoint....

 

Hardy currently makes ~$4.6M

 

The absolute worst he could make in 2010, would be .8 x $4.6 or $3.7 -- However I don't think he gets a paycut -- I would guess he ends up at about $5M or so for 2010.

 

Now -- here is where I sort of question this strategy --

 

IF Hardy has a crappy 2010, and he is offered Arby's -- he is going to get somewhere over $4M at least for 2011.

 

IF Hardy has a crappy 2010, and is not under control -- I suspect he gets much less than that on the FA market.

 

I think JJ could certainly rebound in 2010 -- but I suspect 2009 has cost him the huge payday contract one way or the other -- or delayed it for a few more years, regardless if he is under control or not.

[snyttri]

Counting up to twenty days and knowing whether 20 days in the minors constitutes a lost year of MLB service is not a gray area. It is easy enough for those who do it on a regular basis. Tom H. may not be familiar with the rule and the Brewers may not have decided on a callup date though.

[SeriesFinale]

The should leave him down until the Nashville season is completely finished. I think that's like Sept. 7th? It looks less shady than calling him up the day after he reaches 20 days down, and would lend credibility to the notion that he was actually down there because of performance and to get as much non-pressure hitting work as possible.

Yeah. It's pretty crummy that the Brewers and Hardy are in a position where people have to worry about "looking shady."

 

I wish JJ could've gotten it together so they could've brought him back before the deadline. Now, well...despite how hard it is for JJ payday-wise, there are valid reasons to keep him down there. If he's not coming back before the deadline, he needs to stay there through the 7th in order to get (or at least attempt to get) what was intended out of his Nashville foray.

 

Frankly, if he had gotten it together and they still kept him down past the 20 days, I'd have been disappointed in the Crew (and you better believe players around the league and elsewhere would've taken note)...it just strikes me as bad faith, regardless of the system and the rules.

[sheethead]

Frankly, if he had gotten it together and they still kept him down past the 20 days, I'd have been disappointed in the Crew (and you better believe players around the league and elsewhere would've taken note)...it just strikes me as bad faith, regardless of the system and the rules.

 

I agree. But it seems like Hardy is still more interested in hitting home runs than being consistent. He has been fairly bad in Nashville, and hasn't earned his way back up. I don't see how the union or his agent could possibly have any gripe in him remaining in AAA for the remainder of their season, other than the fact that Escobar hasn't necessarily outproduced him at the plate thus far.

[Thurston Fluff]

Frankly, if he had gotten it together and they still kept him down past the 20 days, I'd have been disappointed in the Crew (and you better believe players around the league and elsewhere would've taken note)...it just strikes me as bad faith, regardless of the system and the rules.

 

I don't see doing what you can to maximize a player's value should make any player or fan disappointed in a team. Players hire agents like Scott Boras who make a career out of undermining the draft system and working the shady areas of negotiations on behalf of his clients. If the players can say it's just business then so can the teams. That aside it's pretty clear the Brewers did it because Hardy just isn't very good thus was sent down.

[SeriesFinale]

Frankly, if he had gotten it together and they still kept him down past the 20 days, I'd have been disappointed in the Crew (and you better believe players around the league and elsewhere would've taken note)...it just strikes me as bad faith, regardless of the system and the rules.

 

I don't see doing what you can to maximize a player's value should make any player or fan disappointed in a team. Players hire agents like Scott Boras who make a career out of undermining the draft system and working the shady areas of negotiations on behalf of his clients. If the players can say it's just business then so can the teams. That aside it's pretty clear the Brewers did it because Hardy just isn't very good thus was sent down.

There's a reason people despise Scott Boras.

[futurefan]

If clubs can do this to players do you not see the need for Scott Boros from a players perspective. If it is a business from one side it must be from the other as well.

[Invader3K]

For me, it would be nice to see the Brewers salvage something from this disappointing season, and if that can be obtaining an extra service year from JJ Hardy, then so be it. It's becoming pretty clear he's not in their long term plans anyway, so I'd rather see them trade him with two years of service time and get more than they would with just one year.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

Per McCalvy:

Tidbits
The Brewers do not intend to recall shortstop J.J. Hardy from Triple-A Nashville before Sept. 1, and as a result, Hardy will not have the Major League service time he needs to qualify for free agency following next season. Instead, he'll have an extra arbitration year before reaching the open market in the winter of 2011.

[Invader3K]

I'm glad to hear that. I hope they stick to that plan. He doesn't deserve to be recalled sooner.

[joepepsi]

It may be best to keep him as the starting ss on Opening Day. If he hits at all you can trade him. If he returns to 2008 form, then you can consider trading Escobar since they'll have control of Hardy through 2011. This is a smart move by Doug.

[Hate those Rodents]

Yep, great move. It's going to make teams pay if they want JJ instead of basically forcing us to sell low on him.

[RockCoCougars]

Wow, what a screw job on Hardy. I can't see him ever playing for the team again after this fiasco. He's been disappointing this year no doubt, but not bad enough to get completely buried like this and his service time messed with. I hate to turn every thread into a Suppan bashing thread, but why is he immune from this, considering that he's the 'brutallist of them all'? Why hasn't he been asked to go to the minors to "work things out"? Instead, he/they keep coming up with these 'injuries'.