JJ Hardy optioned to AAA- Latest: Per McCalvy, JJ will be left at AAA and add another year before free agency

[JJHardy7]

You guys are missing Melvins biggest move of absolute buffoonery. Giving Hardy the opening day SS job, coming off shoulder surgery, on a team competing for nothing, after SS Bill Hall had a monster ST and was clearly poised for a breakout year. Had he let Hardy play in AAA to open that season, which should have been a no-brainer considering he had only played 26 games their, We'd have him through 2011. That would have given us huge trade possibilities, with either Hardy or Escobar.

How though? If JJ was hitting this year, I'd agree. I do think it was maybe a bad move to have JJ up his rookie year, but I don't think that would change anything today in a major way. I've stated it before...Brewer fans have over valued JJ for awhile. He's not bringing back a #1 or #2 starter. He should've been traded a year ago or so despite how much longer he's under control. But X, you do go along my lines of the Brewers not trading guys when they're playing better than their talent.

[Never Outhustled]

We can still control him through 2011 based on keeping him down there and we are playing for nothing today basically anyway.

Except Melvin has already said he won't do that because he doesn't want to make anyone mad.

[Never Outhustled]

But X, you do go along my lines of the Brewers not trading guys when they're playing better than their talent.

Unfortunatly, the guy who could judge talent was Jack Z, and he got away. Melvin gets way too much credit for lucky waiver claims of mediocre players. Every team gets those. Melvin doesn't trade our players at their peak because he has no idea what their peak is.

[Hate those Rodents]

People will always be mad at what a GM does. regardless.

[JJHardy7]

Unfortunatly, the guy who could judge talent was Jack Z, and he got away. Melvin gets way too much credit for lucky waiver claims of mediocre players. Every team gets those. Melvin doesn't trade our players at their peak because he has no idea what their peak is.

So....why didn't Jack Z simply tell Melvin that JJ was playing above his head last year or the year before? Jack Z gets credit for the draft, but what about after a player is drafted? IIRC (I might be way off), but JJ wasn't even a Jack Z pick. Again, I might be wrong, but that's not my point. My point is the Brewers need to make an effort to determine guys true talent at the MLB level...that should probably come from scouting. I don't think it will happen with Gamel or Escobar...but let's say both are below average MLB players. I truly hope the Brewers have scouts who would say, 'Trade them', etc. I just worry this team hasn't and still doesn't have that. People complain about the Yankees and their over hyping guys...smart teams trade those guys that are over hyped.

[Never Outhustled]

People will always be mad at what a GM does. regardless.

Nah, everyone loved Ron Wolf, because he produced instant results, and didn't have losing seasons. If Melvin wouldn't have made as many bad moves, we wouldn't be looking at another losing season from a Melvin team. Shouldn't you expect a winning team in year 7 of a rebiulding project? The Hardy situation is a perfect example of Melvins failures.

[ELCABALLO45]

You really can't compare a NFL GM to a MLB GM at all.

[Never Outhustled]

So....why didn't Jack Z simply tell Melvin that JJ was playing above his head last year or the year before? Jack Z gets credit for the draft, but what about after a player is drafted?

That is in no way part of the amateur scouting directors job. They do nothing with the players after there drafted. Both Z and Bruce Sied have mentioned this numerous times.

 

(I might be way off), but JJ wasn't even a Jack Z pick.

Hardy was Z's very 1st 2nd round pick.

 

 

While I agree that the team needs to trade guys at their peak, what would it matter if the pitching prospects they aquired turn out like Jose Cappelan, Zack Jackson, or J DLR.

[pretendastronaut]

Some strange differences in reporting of Hardy's reaction;

 

Per Haudricourt:

 

"I didn't see that coming at all," added Hardy, who will join the Nashville club on Friday. "It didn't really make sense to me. I told Doug all I need was a couple of days off. I know I haven't been swinging the bat like I want to but that has worked for me in the past.

 

"It's certainly not anything I'm excited about. I'm very frustrated."

 

Per McCalvy:

 

"I think these next couple of days are going to be really nice," Hardy said Wednesday morning. "I'll go down there and do what I'm supposed to do, but I'm pretty excited about getting three days to rest."

 

Was Hardy surprised by the move?

 

"I don't know -- I've kind of been feeling it," Hardy said. "I've been feeling like all of the coaches have been staring at me and watching everything I do. It's been uncomfortable. But it still surprises me a little bit. I think three days off would have been all I needed, and I've been going out there every single day and doing what they've asked me to do."

[Tbadder]

I don't know guys. This just seems like desparation. I love Escobar. I like him better than JJ, but I'm still not sure he should be up. JJ's value is definitely taking a hit. If Escobar does really well, and JJ never gets his spot back, well that's more than unfortunate--it's stupid. There is something to be said for taking your turn, waiting for the old guard to turn over, etc. Of course the upside in this scenario

is that they get a good shortstop anyways. But still, as a small market team, you just can't give away talent or lose talent. ESPECIALLY when the problem is pitching, pitching, pitching. Sure Escobar improves the pitching, but not enough. If starters aren't available you don't tear the rest of the team apart. Hearing Melvin trying to defend himself tonight, hearing the emotion in his voice, really got me questioning him for the first time. I would be seriously surprised if Hardy is traded. Ken Rosenthal said tonight he expects Hall to be in SF. And finally poor Bill Castro. Now it's Bosio's turn to take it in the groin. Will Bosio ever get another major league job after being Melvined? These moves are tantamount to bailing water on the Titanic.

[Baldkin]

Melvin doesn't trade our players at their peak because he has no idea what their peak is.

Scott Podsednik?

Richie Sexson?

[fallingleaves]

I for one am a big supporter of this move, let the days of Escobar begin. Ia also feel that members of this forum need to quit being delusional about Hardy's value, he will never net us a decent SP option with this horrendous season marking his value.

 

Now if only Gamel would be called up...

[MNBrew]

Whoa boy, what a day. Gone to the PGA practice round (no cell phones allowed) only to find all this out at dinner time. Black Wednesday is right, TH, and it's about time. Many thoughts (on the SS position and the thread up to now):

 

- Glad to read less "Hardy must be getting traded" chatter after the first half-dozen pages of the thread. My brain was exploding from all that nonsense. Melvin's typically not one to "sell low." Plus, a move now only nets you a PTBNL or, at best, an albatross of a contract. Melvin wouldn't possibly settle for such a hollow return (wait 'til Hot Stove time). Never mind the fact that he hadn't even put Hardy on August waivers in the first place.

- Hardy needs to get right to be a legit asset & I fully expect him to get right sooner or later. Clearly, though, after 4 months of everyday chances in the bigs, letting him try to play his way out of it in Milwaukee was no longer practical.

- Escobar might do well and definitely brings different offensive elements than most of the rest of the usual lineup. . . . And if he doesn't prove he's ready, they can send him right back down. It won't matter squat re: his FA clock or potential Super-2 status even if he's in the bigs permanently starting now: Escobar won't reach arby eligibility until at least after the '12 season and FA after '15. If Hardy rebounds and re-earns the starting SS job through next year and Escobar's in AAA again to the point where he doesn't get called up 'til June or so, the FA eligibility bumps another year and arby might, too, depending on when he's called up. In short, it's hardly a losing deal.

- Sooner or later and likely within the next 12 months, Escobar & Hardy are going to be competing directly for the same job OR one of them WILL have been moved. It's going to happen in some way or another. Demoting Hardy and leaving Escobar in AAA wasn't going to happen at this juncture because both of them HAVE to be playing SS to optimize their value. Escobar proved earlier in the year that moving him to 2B is a bad idea.

- Hardy needed a kick in the butt and a chance to regroup. Whether a demotion to AAA or a ML benching, neither could damage his trade value much more than his crappy hitting for 4+ months this year already had. Recent JSOnline blogs had noted Hardy just looking and seeming completely lost. My ideal would be to see Hardy get clicking again, return before 9/1, reinvigorate his trade value, then be used to net some improved pitching this winter. I like Hardy a lot, but the Brewers do seem to have plenty of IF depth and options if Hardy were traded and Escobar proved in April/May/whenever that he still needed more seasoning at AAA.

- Using an argument I trumpeted in the old Jenkins vs. Carlos Lee discussions, SBs essentially equate to elevating your SLG%. In Escobar's case, add his net of 32 additional bases (42 SB - 10 CS) to his total bases and what do you get? A .484 SLG and a .837 OPS.

 

I really grooved with the posts here that have acknowledged that any number of things could come out of this (there are SO many shades of gray!), as well as that Melvin & Co. simply couldn't fail to make Hardy accountable any longer. Hooray for that prevailing sanity.

[MNBrew]

I also wasn't getting how bringing up Escobar now was starting his arby & FA clocks. He was on the active roster already all of last September. The clock had started. It just wasn't running again 'til Wednesday.

[TooLiveBrew]

Some strange differences in reporting of Hardy's reaction

 

No shocker, TH goes with the inflammatory angle.

 

 

Wow. Just... wow. I'm glad Hardy can keep things in perspective, even with some of his excuse-making. I guess I will enjoy watching Escobar play, but I hate the way his service time is being burned.

 

I need a GenoSeligPrieb post worse than I need those shots of whiskey...

[Thurston Fluff]

I still don't see the point of making the offense WORSE when it is and has been the pitching all along that needed retooling.

 

Are you making the offense worse by sending down a batter who got on base at a 300 clip or hit for a 667 OPS? Escorbar will hit for less power but I think he will get on base a lot more than that. You also help the pitching by improving the defense at a very important defensive position.

 

Unfortunatly, the guy who could judge talent was Jack Z, and he got away.

 

Thank God Jack Z. got us so much pitching during his time here. Otherwise we might be below .500 now.

 

Melvin gets way too much credit for lucky waiver claims of mediocre players. Every team gets those. Melvin doesn't trade our players at their peak because he has no idea what their peak is.

 

Or he didn't trade them at their peak because that is precisely the time you want to have them actually playing for you. What's the point of deveolping players if all you do is trade them when they are playing their best? Trades should be made to either improve the team, or because the player is no longer a part of the plans either because there is a replacement or they are going to be too expensive for to keep.

According to the trade at peak value ideal Hardy should have been traded last year because he would have been high value. But would we have got to the playoffs by trading him? Somewhere along the line you have to use you good players as players not poker chips.

[Invader3K]

Somewhere along the line you have to use you good players as players not poker chips.

 

That's a very good point that gets constantly ignored. It seems like some want almost constant turnover of the roster every 3-4 years. That doesn't leave much time to actually contend before you have a new group trying to excel at the big league level.

[sgtcluels]

Baldkin wrote

Scott Podsednik?

Richie Sexson?

And then what? 2003 and 2004 was a long time ago, and way before our window of young talent opportunity.

[Postseason2006]

Let's start comparing the success of the Mariners vs the Brewers for arguments sake. Jack Z took Melvin out back in the Branyan deal.

 

Anyhow, this was a long time coming. JJ should've been moved in the offseason. The main reason we kept Macha was because of his station to station play and the let's wait the homer offense. We've been playing this way since 1998.

[Hate those Rodents]

Not really constant turnover. But you should definitely turnover about two players of your starting nine (or eight) each year roughly imho. And you should replace the two that might get you the best pitching when you know going into the season your team really needs it bad. And you probably should sell high on the two that you do decide to trade.

 

We had our entire starting corps from last year this year as far as everyday players. And a bad starting rotation.

[Invader3K]

What deal? Branyan was a free agent and wanted to be a starter, something the Brewers couldn't give him.

 

Honestly, this is his first year he's basically stayed healthy the whole season, and is probably playing a bit above his head. Holding that against Doug Melvin is kind of hard to swallow for me.

[Postseason2006]

The Brewers couldn't make him a starter at 3rd?

[bjkrautk]

What deal? Branyan was a free agent and wanted to be a starter, something the Brewers couldn't give him.

 

Honestly, this is his first year he's basically stayed healthy the whole season, and is probably playing a bit above his head. Holding that against Doug Melvin is kind of hard to swallow for me.

Not to mention, Branyan plays 1b for the Mariners....which wouldn't be much of an option in Milwaukee.

[endaround]

And block Gamel? And deal with Branyan's injurieas and bad defensive play? He's a platoon 1B/DH. The Brewers are set at 1B.

[Invader3K]

I was going to say, if he was the starting third baseman, I'm sure people would whine about how his bad defense negates his offense.

 

It's not like McGehee has been a slouch this season, either.