Angel- What Now?

[coach32sm]

Hey guys I was in Europe, just got back to the States for the National NABF Championship in Jackson Mississippi with the New York Team I coach, will be leaving again for Europe on Wednesday but I'm curious, I've been reading for years that Angel Salome is one sided, he hit over .400 he hit .360 in AA! and was always being knocked for his defense for what I don't know, but most of you never saw him play and only went by stats which can always be deceiving. Well this year, he hurt his back in spring training and has been playing hurt most of this year, including a recent finger injury. I wish all you stat guys would look at his stats and see that he has one of the top if not the top percentage of throwing runners out in the organization, higher than Kendall who is there for his defense and not his bat. I think Angel has shown that he is a hard worker and not just a hitter. I hope you get a chance to se him in September and that he is fully healthy because he is you catcher of the future and he is a good one and a great kid as well. Is there anything else you would like to see him accomplish, we can work on it in the off season as we have the last few years!!! Pleas go see him and then make an assessment, he is awesome, and again he is playing with a finger that is almost broken and knowing him it just might be. He played with a broken hand at our Championship game in Shea Stadium his senior year and didnt tell anybody, he's a gamer.

Have a great rest of summer and enjoy the baseball. See you in September

"Coach"

[filthyfrog]

Is there anything else you would like to see him accomplish, we can work on it in the off season as we have the last few years!!!

 

Yes, can you work with Angel on staying healthy?

 

Seriously, do you have any comments on Angel's ability to call a game or handle a pitching staff? Managers and GMs always talk about those things, but I don't think anyone really knows how to measure it.

[colbyjack]

Thanks for dropping by Coach, I always enjoy your insight. Your post caused me to take a look at his defensive numbers (available at baseball-reference.com for those that are hooked to MiLB.com's stats) and am happy to see that he has improved this past year. While Salome may not have the same amount of glowing love around these parts, I know quite a few people are still excited about what he can do moving forward. Both he and Lucroy give the Brewers a pair of potential everyday catchers from within, something they haven't been able to develop since Mike Matheny.

[Mass Haas]

Thanks for telling us about his finger -- we know he mssed several games recently.

 

I imagine the Sounds didn't want word of that getting out so that opposing baserunners wouldn't attempt to take advantage. Otherwise, there seems to be no reason Gord Ash was so hesitant to comment specifically other than to say he was "banged up", which is what we had heard from various folks in Nashville as well.

[DHonks]

Coach, with Angel doing fine in AAA (not thriving, but holding his own), what would you like to see for a timeframe with him getting to the majors? I assume he'll once again be a Sept callup. While knowing the person, you'd love to see him in MLB right now. But knowing what he needs to work on, do you think he's better off with another 1/2 or full season in AAA? At this point I would imagine Angel comes to Milwaukee in Sept followed by the AFL.

[dadofandrew]

His offense has been very good since April, though his power is down...that could be a result of him being beat up though.

 

I would say his durability may well be his biggest issue...he is short and muscular, but catchers get hit a lot.

[JJHardy7]

Can you provide any information in regard to how the Brewers are projecting him at this point?

[sbrylski]

His offense has been very good since April, though his power is down...that could be a result of him being beat up though.

 

I would say his durability may well be his biggest issue...he is short and muscular, but catchers get hit a lot.

True, he's been quite good since April...

 

Salome, 2009:

 AVG OBP SLG OPS BABIP LD% April .191 .298 .234 .532 .250 15.8% May-Aug .304 .345 .438 .782 .355 26.6% 

 

Defense getting better every year too...

 

 Year LVL G PB SB CS CS% 2007 A+ 39 9 2008 AA 78 13 90 31 26% 2009 AAA 69 7 44 21 32% 

[TooLiveBrew]

Didn't we see with Kendall, though, that CS rate can have a lot to do with who's trying to steal on a catcher? I am just wondering aloud (& by no means want to spit on Coach's great post -- thanks for sharing), as perhaps a 74% success rate in 2008 has guys that don't normally try to steal running on Angel.

 

I guess I am a stats guy to some extent, but I think more subjective information is needed here. Just as Coach is quick to point out in defense of Salome, I also don't think we can just look at a CS rate from 69 games & assume his defense is necessarily better. I'd think this is something we'd need to have some fair-minded, first-hand reporting to tell. And I would definitely not pretend to be able to form a better opinion from glancing at some stats.

[TheCrew07]

Angel's problem with the CS % wasn't his arm, he's got an absolute cannon, apparently he had a hitch in his delivery. He's plenty talented enough to be a good defensive catcher, most our hesitation around here comes from Money's various comments about Angel maybe having to repeat AAA. That could be posturing trying to light a fire under a guy, or it could be the organization isn't very happy at all with his game calling and defense. I personally have no basis of comparison other than his caught stealing percentage, I've never been fortunate enough to see him play, and listening on the web doesn't provide clues along those lines.

 

Well maybe it would, but I haven't listened to more than a handful of Sounds' games all season.

[wibadgers23]

Let's say the Brewers are out of playoff contention at some point in September. Does Salome get a few starts?

[sheetskout]

I have always backed Salome and still don't understand how he can be behind Lucroy in the Power-50. He's playing a level higher at the same age, injured, and Lucroy has been nothing to get so excited about (minus what he's done in the past 10-15 games).

 

Homered tonight, although had an error and a PB. Keep the faith!

[PlayerHader]

I think LuCroy has always seemed like a "safe bet" to turn into a major league contributor in some role, and has over time shown that he could be a starter. Salome has always seemed more hit-or-miss and his size and perceived defensive shortcomings have turned people off to him.

[Mass Haas]

From Sunday's game in Salt Lake, here's Angel -- photo by Jeffrey D. Allred, Deseret News

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1619831.jpg

[jjfanec]

I have always backed Salome and still don't understand how he can be behind Lucroy in the Power-50. He's playing a level higher at the same age, injured, and Lucroy has been nothing to get so excited about (minus what he's done in the past 10-15 games).

 

Homered tonight, although had an error and a PB. Keep the faith!

Salome is a nice prospect but you under value Lucroy a ton. His defense is ahead of Salome in pretty much every way from reports and stats. Even this year with Salome's caught stealing being better Lucroy is still 7% better than him. Lucroy struggled early this year partially because of bad luck if you look at his BABip, now that that number is creeping back toward normal his numbers are look very good. You can say Lucroy has only had a good past 10-15 games but he his OPS of .795 is .36 points higher than Salome's for the year. He plays better defense and has better offensive numbers this year (and for their career they are about equal), and Lucroy seems more durable.

 

Don't get me wrong I think Salome is a really good prospect and here is to hoping his defense becomes major league ready. I know he had some injury problems a couple years in the minors but outside of his amazing year last year at Huntsville and a great half a season in rookie ball his offensive numbers have never been good but not great. So you have to wonder if he is more of a .800 OPS guy like he was in low and high A and now in AAA or is he the guy who dominated AA.

 

Next year should be interesting because it looks like both Salome and Lucroy will be in AAA. Taking Moneys' comments, his overall stats and durability concerns into account it seems like Salome will not be our starting catcher next year and i doubt they bring him up to sit the bench. Lucory's finish to this year shows that he is ready for AAA so having both in Nashville will be interesting.

[PlayerHader]

How will they both be in AAA? There is no DH, right? They aren't going to hinder both players development by sitting them on the bench every other day. I'd put money on one of the two being in Milwaukee next year, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was LuCroy.

[jjfanec]

How will they both be in AAA? There is no DH, right? They aren't going to hinder both players development by sitting them on the bench every other day. I'd put money on one of the two being in Milwaukee next year, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was LuCroy.

But how does backing up in the majors help their development any more than splitting time in AAA and maybe having Lucroy play some first base or something? I actually think the most likely scenario is that one of them is packaged with Hardy or Hart to get pitching this off-season. Neither seem ready for the majors but you are right splitting time is not ideal either.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I agree with jjfanec. I could definitely see one of them getting traded this off-season in a package. If that's what is necessary to get a quality upper rotation pitcher, then I think they have to do it.

[DHonks]

I'd have one of them be the big league backup and playing around 40% of the time. I would also consider letting them both be on the roster to split time, much as how the Dbacks broke in both Snyder and Montero.

[coach32sm]

My take is that Angel will get a call up in Sept and Lucroy to AAA. If the Brewers are out of it he will play more. I think angel will get every chance next year to be the big league catcher and Lucroy again starting at AAA. Wait until you see Angel every day, his size (or actually height) will never be an issue, he plays big. He has had a great offensive minor league career, not just one season or part of another. He is an RBI machine as was Manny in the minor leagues and look at him now!!He is legit and will be like Pudge (pre- "what ever") I doubt they will trade Angel, from the inside, he was wanted in the CC deal but Cleveland was told flat out "NO" The Brewers brass knows what they have. Lucroy would not be traded either he will have to stay in AAA like Angel did this year, after next year, somebody will move. It doesn't make sense for either of them to sit. Talk to you in a few unless I can get online in Europe, sometimes it's difficult and sloooooooooow!!! "Coach"

[PlayerHader]

jjfan, I didn't mean to imply that one of the two would play a Rivera-like role (meaning warming the bench daily) for the Brewers next season. Whichever player is more ready for the majors will likely split time, whether they are the main starter or playing a couple of games a week.

[jjfanec]

jjfan, I didn't mean to imply that one of the two would play a Rivera-like role (meaning warming the bench daily) for the Brewers next season. Whichever player is more ready for the majors will likely split time, whether they are the main starter or playing a couple of games a week.

I hope one of them is ready to split time next year I just have a hard time seeing it with the comments from money on Salome's defense and him coming off a below average year offensively. Lucroy is only in AA right now and is starting to hit well but I would be surprised to see him jump to the majors and start. I hope one of them can do it though

[dadofandrew]

I think they'll bring Kendall back to groom Salome, who'll play 30-40% of the time, in 2010.

[PlayerHader]

I was thinking the same thing, Al. If JK will come back for $1 mil or less and be willing to play part-time (why wouldn't he?), then I think this is a decent solution. Hopefully either Salome or Lucroy earn the majority of the playing time by June.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Melvin retains Kendall, I think I will lose what little faith I have left in Doug. Just hand the job to Angel -- there is no possible way he can be worse than what we've had to suffer through this season.

 

Even paying Kendall $1M would be a waste of money. At least get an all-D no hit catcher, instead of a no-D, no-hit guy who will be in his age-36 season.