Brewers get Weathers from CIN for PBTNL; Smith Optioned, Green DFA'd to make room

[jaybird2001wi]

In Buster Olney's latest chat wrap on ESPN.com he officially answered by far the stupidest question ever asked and it is clear that this guy is a Cubs fan:

Mike W (Chicago)

Buster, you reported earlier that JJ Hardy hasn't passed through waivers yet. When it comes to August trades do both players have to pass through waivers to be included in a trade if their on a manager league roster? I ask because I could see JJ Hardy being the PTBNL in the David Weathers trade.

Buster Olney

(1:34 PM)

Mike W.: I doubt it... but I never would've guessed that they would give up two pitching prospects for Scott Rolen, while absorbing his entire 2010 salary, so what the heck do I know... I'm assuming it would be a younng pitcher...

I know Hardy is having a down year, but come on! How in the world did Olney ever decide to post that question of all the other ones that were not picked? Is Olney trying to make Cub fans look dumber or what? But that question is the most blasphemous I have ever seen.

David Weathers for JJ Hardy? Pffftttt. After that question, I am at a loss for words at the intellect of anyone working for ESPN or the intellect of anyone south of our border.

[JJHardy7]

I know Hardy is having a down year, but come on! How in the world did Olney ever decide to post that question of all the other ones that were not picked?

Well I'd think worse of ESPN if they said they thought it was Hardy. He says he 'doubts it' so I don't know how you can knock ESPN. Was it a poor question? Probably, but I'm sure there are worse. I also think Olney could've done a better job of actually answering the question. I still think some here value JJ a bit more though than he will be if/when he's moved. We're trading him with a year left before free agency...that's not going to bring back stud pitching...but I do hope it brings back more than Weathers! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[PeaveyFury]

"The Reds were right to get rid of Weathers - he's old, not good, and makes more money than he should."

 

I strongly disagree with the "not good" part- he's been solid this year, as usual.

 

He says he 'doubts it' so I don't know how you can knock ESPN.

 

Because it's not possible- a PTBNL can not be a player in the same League as the person he was traded for. Cincy to Milwaukee = NL to NL, so it's not allowed. Olney should know that.

[trwi7]

I strongly disagree with the "not good" part- he's been solid this year, as usual.

He's good if he can keep his .200 BABIP and 87% LOB%.

[PeaveyFury]

He's good if he can keep his .200 BABIP and 87% LOB%.

 

His 134 ERA+ also suggests you can adjust his numbers for that band box he's been in as well.

[JJHardy7]

Because it's not possible- a PTBNL can not be a player in the same League as the person he was traded for. Cincy to Milwaukee = NL to NL, so it's not allowed. Olney should know that.

I big-time apologize if this is true. So within a league it has to be for a minor leaguer? A guy not on the 40-man, etc? Again, I do apologize, but the post I was responding to didn't state that...maybe I just am in the minority of not knowing that. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

How does the rule read though? I guess I understand why it'd exist to a certain extent, but what would prevent the Brewers from calling up any of the guys on the 'list' to the bigs? Or is that not allowed? Sorry for all the questions...I've just never heard of this rule before. Thanks for pointing it out PF.

Edit: I did a little research and it looks like this is right. I was aware of this for pre July 31st deals, but didn't know it applied to waiver trades. From the little reserach I've done it looks like it does. Thanks PF for pointing this out.

[PeaveyFury]

what would prevent the Brewers from calling up any of the guys on the 'list' to the bigs? Or is that not allowed?

 

I'm honestly not sure- I would think, though, that it's probably the league they're in at the time of the trade?

 

.maybe I just am in the minority of not knowing that.

 

No, certainly not something a majority of people should know, but something Buster Olney certainly should. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[JJHardy7]

I'm honestly not sure- I would think, though, that it's probably the league they're in at the time of the trade?

 

That'd be as good of guess as any. I would also guess it must specifically be in regard to the MLB league?

[NYChez]

If they had a hall of fame for middle relievers, then Weathers would be one of the first inductees. Good pickup which should help save Coffee's arm and inprove everyone's effectiveness. If the Brewers were to have any chance to make a run the next 2 months, then this deal had to be made.

[Invader3K]

Chris Smith optioned to Nashville, according to Haudricourt's latest blog update.

[bork]

Chris Smith optioned to Nashville, according to Haudricourt's latest blog update.

I thought he was out of options and the 40 man roster was full. TH must have gotten his wires crossed.

[Ennder]

Weathers is Riske basically. Same substandard peripherals, same strong ERA for multiple seasons even with the peripherals. He is a pretty risky RP overall so not sure I'd like him for that price tag next season.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

His 134 ERA+ also suggests you can adjust his numbers for that band box he's been in as well.

Why would anyone bother? ERA+ is already ballpark adjusted, so I don't really get what you're driving at here. Granted, he's managed to post solid ERAs the bulk of his career, and the last few years as well, but always as a consequence of a fair amount of BABIP luck or LOB% luck. Maybe I'm being SABR dogmatic here, but w/o decent K/9 or BB/9 rates, count me as a sceptic on the question of whether Weathers is still a decent pitcher.

[PeaveyFury]

ERA+ is already ballpark adjusted, so I don't really get what you're driving at here.

 

Exactly the point- his ballpark adjusted ERA+ suggests that he's pitched very well when you counter for GABP, which isn't reflected in his actual ERA and such.

[bobskube]

His 134 ERA+ also suggests you can adjust his numbers for that band box he's been in as well.

Why would anyone bother? ERA+ is already ballpark adjusted, so I don't really get what you're driving at here. Granted, he's managed to post solid ERAs the bulk of his career, and the last few years as well, but always as a consequence of a fair amount of BABIP luck or LOB% luck. Maybe I'm being SABR dogmatic here, but w/o decent K/9 or BB/9 rates, count me as a sceptic on the question of whether Weathers is still a decent pitcher.

You know I am not a old school cromudgon or anything, but when is looking at SABR info too much. The old eye test should still mean something. Weathers throws junk and can be rocked on any given night to really blow his stats up, but i think you can count on him 4 out of every 5 appearances. I'll take that over what we have been getting.

[Mass Haas]

RHP Nick Green, claimed off waivers from Anaheim in February, and currently in Huntsville, was designated for assignment to make room for David Weathers on the 40-man roster. He will remain in the Brewers' organization should he clear waivers.

[Ennder]

You know I am not a old school cromudgon or anything, but when is looking at SABR info too much

 

ERA+ is nowhere near what I would call a SABR stat. SABR would say Weathers is a pretty bad pitcher, all signs point towards his ERA being a mirage. Some RP seem to be able to keep bad peripherals and good ERA though so hard to just dismiss the end results since they cover so many years.

[MNBrew]

I don't understand why so many folks are ragging on this move. After Trevor Hoffman, the cumulative innings & years of ML experience remaining in the bullpen wouldn't come close to adding up to Weathers' if the Brewers hadn't just picked up Colome & Vargas. And even then, Weathers by himself isn't terribly far behind those two totals.

 

Like any reliever, even every Hall of Famer, Weathers blows a game here and there. But Weathers is solid and has pitched much better in his 2nd decade than his first. In the last 10 years, Weathers has only had an ERA over 4.00 once (in '04). By and large he's a much-needed upgrade in terms of performance and experience. Who do you complainers want instead? More Jorge Julio & R.J. Swindle?

 

As a side note, it's also worth noting that before arriving here the 1st time, Weathers got totally (& somewhat unjustly) vilified by George Steinbrenner and eventually cut by the Reds mid-season (shortly after homering against the Brewers, no less). Ever since he first became a Brewer, he's been a generally effective and very reliable reliever. Bill Castro turned the guy's career totally around.

[monty57]

I don't understand why so many folks are ragging on this move.

 

From a player prospective, I don't mind the move, as I like Weathers.

 

However, I've all but given up on this year and want to look to the future. If this is a move for next year, Weathers' contract takes around $4MM from payroll flexibility for next year. I'd guess that means that if Cameron cannot be signed, as we then wouldn't be able to pay Looper's replacement any more than league minimum unless someone like Hardy is traded for someone of equal or lesser pay. I think the only way at this point that we get a decent SP for Hardy is if we pick up some salary (Hardy for Harang type deal). Without this move, I figured we'd have around $15MM to spread out between CF, SP, RP and our bench. Even if his option isn't executed, he will cost us $1/2 million, which is probably why Cincy was willing to part with him for nothing.

 

Also, while the recent bullpen additions may allow us to end the year at .500, they will disallow us from giving guys like Dillard a chance to pitch in the majors this year to see if they'll be a solid part of the 'pen next year. This goes beyond the bullpen. Counsell is playing about 80% of the time over McGehee. Kendall is playing over Rivera. Cat is playing over Gerut. In other words, guys who likely will not have a future with the team are taking time away from guys that do have a future with the team. As long as we continue to hold out hope that we will suddenly overcome injuries and play red hot while the three teams ahead of us will fall flat on their faces, we will hamper out future.

 

This move will help us this season. I don't doubt that at all. When we have to decline arbitration to Cameron and let him walk for nothing because we refused to trade him this season, I'll look at this move as part of the reason why. Whether we keep Weathers and hamper our ability to sign a SP, or dump Weathers and pay him $400,000 that we otherwise would not have had to pay, there is a chance it will hurt our ability to compete for a playoff spot next year. $400k doesnt' seem like a lot when looking at an $80MM payroll. However, it is a lot when your available payroll is only around $15MM.

[And That]

The Brewers slipped the Reds some cash to complete the Weathers trade.