Do we have competitive balance right now?

[trwi7]

When Mark A spends the money.

How much do you think he can realistically spend? This market can't support even a $110 million payroll. Probably not even a $100 million payroll.

[nate82]

How much do you think he can realistically spend? This market can't support even a $110 million payroll. Probably not even a $100 million payroll.

$90-95m is pushing it for the Brewers. Milwaukee could support a $90m team at $95m the Brewers are probably starting to get into the red. Last year with Sabathia the Brewers were at about $90m I believe. A little bit more than $90m but that is about where they were. The Brewers should start this next season near the $90m mark.

[The Truth]

When Mark A spends the money.

How much do you think he can realistically spend? This market can't support even a $110 million payroll. Probably not even a $100 million payroll.

I'm not a math expert but the more he spends the more the Brewers will consistently win, and history shows people in Wisconsin go crazy for a winner. A perennial World Series contending Brewers team could conceivably sell out every game at Miller Park. Merch sales would be through the roof, as would the TV contract...

 

Part of it is being smart with how you spend the money: you don't give $10 million a year contracts to over-the-hill starting pitchers or center-fielders or third basemen with a one year track record of hitting... there I just saved, what? $25-$30 million right there that could have been spent on Sabathia

[PrinceFielderx1]

$90-95m is pushing it for the Brewers. Milwaukee could support a $90m team at $95m the Brewers are probably starting to get into the red.

I'm not so sure.. Two seasons ago yes. Mark A even said they were a little in the red.

 

You have to consider the new TV deal that was made this year (2009). It probably went up, but no specific details have been released on it yet I don't think. I wouldn't expect a huge increase. Maybe it went up 5-10 million?

[logan82]

I'm not a math expert but the more he spends the more the Brewers will consistently win, and history shows people in Wisconsin go crazy for a winner.

 

Yes all of Wisconsin would go crazy and really support a winner, but there is only so much money to be brought in. Milwaukee, even including the surrounding area, is still one of the smallest if not the smallest market in baseball.

 

A salary cap would still be a bad idea since there would just be a bunch of money going into the owner's pockets. What really needs to be done is more profit sharing amongst the teams. Milwaukee at $95M still wouldn't be able to compete with teams that routinely spend $120M plus. Of course that is ignoring all the other stuff people don't want to acknowledge like better endorsement opportunities.

[Invader3K]

If significant changes don't happen, or the Brewers can't get into that $110-120 million payroll range in the next couple years, we may as well all except that the Brewers will probably never win the World Series.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Competitive balance?

 

Mark A says 'no'.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091031/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbo_world_series_big_markets

[owbc]

When Mark A spends the money.

How much does he need to spend?

 

Were the 2009 Cubs or Mets "truly great" this year ($135 million payrolls)? Even the Astros have $100 million+ payroll.

 

How is it fair to Mark A. that he can make smart personnel decisions, develop players through the draft, and make smart contract offers, and yet still lose on a consistent basis to a teams that have incompetent management. We all agree that the Brewers have better management than the Cubs, right? But the Cubs are a better team than the Brewers, or at least they were in 2009, 2008, and 2007. The only reason that the Cubs continue to beat the Brewers is because the Cubs have more money to spend. The Brewers will likely continue to only finish ahead of the Cubs in the standings every 3-4 years due to the $50 million payroll discrepancy and Mark A. can do nothing about it unless he wants to go bankrupt.

[Invader3K]

It's good to see Attanasio still talking about this issue. Hopefully he can be front and center with some of the other small market owners, and effect some real change when the CBA is up in 2011. It sounds like he has probably abandoned hope of a salary cap, but will argue in favor of some other changes. That may be for the best at this point.

 

I'm sure if Attanasio could be spending more money, he probably would be...but by all accounts the Brewers' payroll is maxed out. They don't seem to have too many avenues for increasing revenues at this point.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Attanasio has done everything he can do financially with this teams payroll. It is not his fault that the market size doesnt support a higher payroll. We cant expect him to take a huge loss every year so the Brewers can compete with the likes of the yankees and red sox. The fact remains that the yankees are nearly guaranteed a playoff spot every year because of their payroll while we have one playoff appearnace since 1982. If that is not the very definition of imbalance I dont know what is.

[The Truth]

Fault. Theres an interesting word. If it isn't Mark A's fault then it is Doug Melvin's

 

How much of the payroll in the 2008 season was tied up in Suppan, Hall, Gagne? Those are poor decisions. Cameron's contract is another issue although that one is arguable (I still say that $$$ is better spent on pitching)

 

The Brewers payroll isn't that much smaller than the Cardinals. The Cardinals are (arguably) in a better position going forward and have a title in this last decade as opposed to Milwaukee because (imho) they a) signed a better manager b) developed pitching better c) got better luck with said pitchers in regards to injuries

 

None of those reasons are related to "oh whoa is me we don't have enough money", they are related (again imho) to a GM making decisions that reflect an ability to take a team from one of the worst teams in MLB to a 85 game winner, not a team that can compete for a World Series title

 

Having said all that, despite my distrust of Doug Melvin, he really did have us poised to go far in 2008. Again a pitching staff of Sheets, Sabathia, Gallardo, Bush is plenty good enough to win a World Series if all 4 are healthy and pitching well.... no reason why that can't happen again, yes in Milwaukee, with the right personnel decisions

 

Now just imagine that the Suppan, Hall, and Gagne $$$ had been spent shrewdly on great contributing players. Its those types of decisions (and yes, luck) that make a difference in who wins a 5 and 7 game series in October

[owbc]

If it isn't Mark A's fault then it is Doug Melvin's

Virtually every team in the majors has at least one bad contract. In addition, Suppan was signed after having dinner with Mark A, so you can't blame Melvin completely for that one. Both the Brewers and the Cubs have some bad contracts. The difference is that the Cubs' free agent signings are better than the Brewers, so even if Soriano, Fukudome, and Bradley do not live up to their paychecks, they still have more value than Suppan, Hall and Gagne.

 

The Brewers simply can not afford to take risks like the Cubs can. Look at Trevor Hoffman. We spent $6 million on him this year and we will spend even more next year--on a 42 year old. That could easily backfire in 2010. Should we have gone with Coffey instead and pulled up more prospects, since they represent a lower risk and cost less? Why should we even be faced with that choice? Hoffman's $8 million contract for 2010 represents a full 1/10 of our payroll. That would only be 1/17 of the Cubs' payroll.

 

You also mention the word "luck". The lack of competitive balance means that the Brewers need much more "luck" (and of course smart decisions) than the Cardinals/Cubs in order to compete. The Yankees needed virtually no luck or smart decisions this year. They just signed the top 3 free agents and did some minor tinkering. Had a few things gone wrong, they could have settled for the Wild Card, which happens to be the best thing that the Brewers have accomplished in a quarter century. The Mets had virtually everything on the planet go wrong this year...but with a healthy team in 2010, there is no reason why they can't win 20 more games without a single trade.

 

The Brewers are nowhere near the level of the top teams in terms of ability to make trades and signings. Maybe it will become clear when the top 5 teams interested in signing Prince Fielder does not include the Brewers, since the other teams could pay him $50 million more.

[PrinceFielderx1]

I'm not to focused on only the payroll. I personally think that if the Brewers can stay healthy they can be very competitive with any team in the NL, and get to the World Series and win it. I'm very serious about that. I also think some people don't fully realize how much Escobar can really help change the dynamic of this team. The 2009 Brewers offense was built around power. Can you imagine if the Brewers could add much needed speed to that powerful line-up like Escobar and a healthy Rickie Weeks? I can't wait to see it. I even think that with Kendall leaving the Brewers, they could go with Johnathan Lucroy and it would be an upgrade at catcher, or perhaps a huge upgrade. I really think Kendall was limiting the Brewers offense, and almost anybody would be an upgrade over him.

 

I'm concerned about one thing though. The Brewers only have Prince Fielder for 2 more years. He is the most important player in the Brewers offense. Without him I can't see the Brewers as contenders. It's very hard to.

 

The other thing is there is wasted money that will no longer be tied up after 2010 season. I strongly believe that the Brewers should use that money and invest it into Prince Fielder. About 26 million will be freed up. It would give much needed relief to the Brewers to not have to worry about losing Prince Fielder. I have stated above that all the current team needs to do is stay healthy and they will contend. So why not keep it that way for longer then 2 seasons?

 

The Brewers are a couple solid pitchers away from going all they way. I would be ok if they were a couple 3-4 types. They don't need to be aces or number two's. Sounds like Doug Melvin has the ok to go out and get them.

 

I like where this team is headed and it isn't that far off to contending for a WS.

[The Truth]

I very much agree about Alcides Escobar, I think he has superstar potential, and we all know Rickie Weeks' potential (if Rickie can just stay healthy)

 

Disagree about being just "2 solid pitchers from going all the way" though. We need more 2 great pitchers to go all the way, at least. (I do think Gallardo could develop into greatness, and it is conceivable that Parra could develop into the 3.70 ERA, 1.20 WHIP guy we'd need as a #2 or preferably #3)... pitching wins championships

[PrinceFielderx1]

Disagree about being just "2 solid pitchers from going all the way" though. We need more 2 great pitchers to go all the way, at least. (I do think Gallardo could develop into greatness, and it is conceivable that Parra could develop into the 3.70 ERA, 1.20 WHIP guy we'd need as a #2 or preferably #3)... pitching wins championships

Ok. You might have a point. I personally would like the Brewers to go after a top young pitcher like Clay Buchholz and a number 3 type pitcher for 2010. That is kinda what I was referring to when I said a couple number 3-4 types. Buchholz has the potential to be even better which is why I would like the Brewers to get him.

[mletto157]

What would you suggest giving the Sox for Buccholz? He has the potential to be a star pitcher in this league. Everyone has seen that. Teams don't give up talent like that very often... if ever - especially when they're still under team control for cheap.

[AJAY]

History will now record the New York Yankees as the World Champions of 2009. Sadly, there will be no asterisk in the record books even though their payroll is beyond ridiculous.

 

I don't know about you, but as a small market fan, I feel like MLB and the players union have just given all of us the middle finger. If any MLB player or team executive is browsing this board and reading this post, shame on all of you for turning this game into a farce. Shame on you for cheating the American public. Shame on you for treating your small-market fans like dirt.

 

Do any of you care about anything in life other than your pocketbooks? Do you any of you have any pride? Do you care about the game? It's time for someone in the players union to be a man, step up, and admit that this is total garbage. Someone needs to show some integrity for a change.

[owbc]

I agree with Ajay.

 

Players like Barry Bonds used steroids to gain an unfair advantage over the competition and rewrite the record books.

 

The 2009 Yankees used copious amounts of money to gain an unfair advantage over the competition and win a championship.

 

Both were legal at the time...and there really is not much of a difference between them.

[Invader3K]

Yay, they bought a championship. Only number 27 of them, and they've "only" been in 40 of the 90 or so World Series. Yay for them.

[Teatoe993]

They also bought their 2008 3rd place finish in the AL East.

I can't really get bent out of shape when the front office does everything to put the best possible team they can on the field.

[Invader3K]

Fine, but just admit they have a much higher possibility of making the World Series every year than most other teams.

 

Maybe MLB should split itself up into two divisions...top 10 payroll teams can be the 1st League, and the bottom 20 can be the 2nd League. That's basically how it is now in terms of likelihood to make the playoffs.

[sheethead]

They also bought their 2008 3rd place finish in the AL East.

 

It was the 2008 3rd place finish that prompted a $400+ million spending spree on THREE players! The Brewers finished third this year, how much do you think they are going to spend on free agents this year? The fact is, there is a farm system built within the big league. Its called the "other half" of the teams.

 

Cashman says, "You can call us anything you want. You're also going to have to call us world champions." This from a GM who, despite spending hundreds of millions of dollars on players like Giambi, Pavano, Sheffield, Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, etc. kept his job despite not winning a championship for 9 years. That's amazing to me. What isn't amazing is the fact that the Yankees won the WS this year, and they are set up nicely for the next 4-5. Strap in, its the late 90's all over again in baseball.

 

I would just hope Melvin stays the heck away from Hideki Matsui. Don't even think about it Doug!

[Invader3K]

I wouldn't worry about about Melvin calling on Matsui...it's obvious he should stick to the AL and be primarily a DH at this point in his career.

[sheethead]

I know, it was mostly tongue in cheek. But it was fairly obvious Suppan got lucky and should have been a #5 type guy in any rotation after 2006, and Melvin thought otherwise.

[JohnBriggs12]

They also bought their 2008 3rd place finish in the AL East.

I can't really get bent out of shape when the front office does everything to put the best possible team they can on the field.

I see the Yankee spin machine even has it's spokesmen on this board. Among the ways Yankee apologists have tried to convince us that their championships are as valuable as any other sport:

 

A. The Yankees followed the rules. If it was your team doing it, you'd be all for it.

 

Reality: The Yankees SET the rules they are following. Steinbrenner has vetoed any attempts to actually even out the revenues in the sport. Sure there is a luxury tax, but make no mistake, if that had actually created a level field, Steinbrenner would have vetoed it. The luxury tax is a joke.

 

B. The Yankees have been accused of buying championships since they bought Babe Ruth from the Red Sox.

 

Reality: The Red Sox sold Ruth so their owner could invest in a Broadway play. Up until the baseball draft started in 1966, teams like the Yankees and other wealthy teams had the advantage of outbidding for amatuer talent. But the hated "Reserve Clause" allowed teams to keep players they developed and thus there was at least a semblence of parity. From 1966 when the draft started until 1973 (the end of the Reserve clause), true parity existed and the Yankees were terrible in those years.

 

C. Baseball isn't like the NFL where parity exists because TV revenue is national in that sport and not in baseball. It would never work in a sport played every day of the week.

 

That was true in 1959 when there were 3 television networks and TVs had channels 2-13. But this is 2009. Baseball has it's own network. Other networks are devoted strictly to sports. There's unlimited amount of channels that exist. There's absolutely no reason (other than greedy big market (re: Yankee) ownership and greedy players) that baseball couldn't negotiate one centralized television contract with revenues equally divided among all teams and prohibit individual franchises from negotiating individual TV contracts.

 

 

Since we're in the midst of high school football playoffs, the Yankees winning a championship is about the equivalent of a perennial big school power like a Homestead or Arrowhead winning a state championship playing against schools no larger than those playing in Division 4 or 5. Sure the possibility exists that some years one of those schools will have an incredible group of talented kids out of their smaller pool, but over time, it will be the giant school that prevails. Those championships would be nice and all, but just like the Yankees, they don't have the value they would have if the playing field were equal.

 

For me, with a few exceptions, there has not been consistenly compelling World Series since about 1993 when the Jays beat the Phillies.