Do we have competitive balance right now?

[NievesNoNO]

This is an excellent debate. While it's difficult to compare the NFL to MLB, I think NFL has it right (at least until next year). At least all the teams start with equal resources. I think I'd start with a world draft and draft slotting though.

Mostly I think I like the salary cap not because it takes down the large market teams a notch, but because it exposes poor management/ownership on the other clubs. The fans for all teams deserve competent management, but a lot of the small/mid market ownership and GMs are able to hide behind the lack of money excuse. While lack of money can be an argument for not winning as much as the larger markets it shouldn't be a 15-20 year excuse for fielding embarrassing teams. If you're managed properly you can have success. Once you have put together enough talent you can remain good for a number of years with good decision making.

The gap between the Yankees and the rest of the league is definitely large, but I don't really consider there to be an insurmountable difference among the other teams. Besides it's kind of fun to just absolutely hate the Yankees.

 

[AJAY]

A very large portion of Yankee fans grew up as fans of the team before they had such a huge payroll advantage. Should they not enjoy the team just because things have gone better for them? The All Madden analogy doesn't quite hold up. People who grew up Yankee fans didn't stack the deck in their favor. They just happened to grow up rooting for a team that would have lots of advantages.

 

 

I also think you have to consider the typical New Yorker's mindset. They are used to having the tallest buildings, the wealthiest companies, the most expensive properties, the most expensive hotels and restaurants, the most tourists, and people who come from all over the world just to be in NY. They get more high profile events and media coverage than any other city. They grow up with the mindset that their city and their people are "special", and things like wealth, power, and status are such an ingrained part of their overall mindset.

 

So based on this mindset, it doesn't seem unusual to Yankees fans that they have the most famous players, highest payroll, most championships, most hall-of-famers, etc. If a free agent leaves a place like Kansas City or Pittsburgh to come to NY, it just matches their normal mindset that NY is the place to be and that is how the world is. If they outspend all other teams by millions of dollars, it doesn't seem unusual for them because it is just another extension of how they view their place relative to the rest of the country.

 

I can't blame the New Yorkers, and I am not critical either. I just think it's a different mindset that is sometimes hard to understand in the rest of the country.

 

For the rest of us, this payroll disparity seems absurd and makes us angry because we see how other sports operate and it seems ridiculous how anyone can find satisfaction in a team buying the World Series. I know NY has other sports teams that have to compete on a level playing field. But truthfully, those other sports don't hold the same special place as the Yankees do in NY. I think the Yankees are more representative of how New Yorkers naturally view themselves and their city relative to the rest of the world. I think that is a big reason why the Yankees are so popular in NY besides just winning games and championships.

[Baldkin]

That doesn't even take into consideration what the trade market does to these teams. For every mid-season trade these teams make they lose prospects they cannot easily replace. Since most of them resign with those high payroll teams they get no compensation at all in return. Though they get to keep their draft pick which ends up being lost for another free agent signing.

That may be true, but the problem is now, the Yankee's can just tell players "Hey, we'll pay you xx million up front if you let us draft you in the 3rd round" -- when players are now deciding where they go, instead of going to the first team that wants to draft them, something is wrong. Until slot-money becomes enforced, the system will remain pretty broken.

[Invader3K]

One other thing that ties into an earlier part of the discussion...how much does it suck to be an Indians fan right now? Sabathia vs Lee in the first game of the World Series. That has to hurt.

[AJAY]

On another note, it is becoming apparent that our commissioner is so thrilled with the television ratings that he is telling everyone in the media that baseball is fine and doesn't have a competitive balance problem. He continues to state that this is an "aberation" and that baseball still has had more different champions than any other sport. It's funny how he ignores all the history of the division races, the frustration of small market fans, and the plight of teams such as Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc.

 

Apparently now that baseball teams are making profits again, the competitive integrity issue is no longer important to him anymore. This sport is looking more and more like pro-wrestling where everything seems phony and fixed in the interests of maximizing ratings and storylines.

 

Maybe Vince McMahon can take over for Bud Selig once he retires.

[PKBadger]

I don't understand the theory that this acquisition of Sabathia/Teixeira/Burnett is somehow "above and beyond" the past acquisitions of Jason Giambi, Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Gary Sheffield, Roger Clemens, Hideki Matsui, Jose Contreras, El Duque, Javier Vasquez, Carl Pavano, Raul Mondesi, Randy Johnson...........

 

This team is no more a collection of mercenaries than any Yankee team of the past 10 years. So why all the outrage and "death of the game we love" talk now?

 

Don't get me wrong, I hate NY as much as anyone else. But I'm still going to watch the playoffs (wouldn't dream of missing it) and will not jump off a bridge if the Yankees win. Nor will I concede them the title for the next 5 years, as some are wont to do.

[Buckhunts]

I think it is short-sighted to say that Bud Selig doesn't care about the small market teams. Just because he isn't attacking the issue doesn't mean he doesn't care nor does it mean he isn't working on it. While he technically is the owners' servant, he has to serve many masters and I truly believe that with unemployment just under 10% nation-wide, I don't think he wants to risk a strike right now. That would be terrible PR. I think he is going to go for a couple of small changes in the draft and more teaks in the luxury tax and revenue-sharing to try to change the system. Also, I don't think it is fair to use organizations like Pitt, KC, or Baltimore to try to prove the point of competitive balance (or lack there of). Baltimore has money, but they just cannot put it together. KC and Pitt are so terribly run that even if they had tons of money it wouldn't matter, they would still tread water (Pitt had a payroll of $25 mil). Plus their are still organizations like FLA, MIL, MIN, and ATL that can put a quality product on the field while keeping the payroll out of the top ten. I really don't think the system is as broken as many people think. Again the difference between the #1 and #2 payroll teams is $60 mil! That's the Yankees spending every dollar they can. I think everyone knows and understands that a salary cap is the third rail of baseball and if Selig, the Owners, Players, and even fans want to grab it, they will get burned a bit. Personally I would prefer changing the draft and revenue-sharing before I wrap my arms around that third rail.

[Thurston Fluff]

A very large portion of Yankee fans grew up as fans of the team before they had such a huge payroll advantage.

 

They've had a payroll advantage since the 80's. They just didn't use it very well until the 90's.

 

 

That may be true, but the problem is now, the Yankee's can just tell players "Hey, we'll pay you xx million up front if you let us draft you in the 3rd round" -- when players are now deciding where they go, instead of going to the first team that wants to draft them, something is wrong.

 

That is an exaggeration. They cannot tell a player to not get drafted nor does first round talent make it to the third strictly so they can get signed by the Yankees. Players have little control over who drafts them despite what is said. Otherwise Washington wouldn't have Strasburg now. Granted the very elite players who hire Boras do scare some teams away for signability reasons but they never make it to the third round. I'd also argue the Yankees are far from the only team that would take a chance on them so there is no way they Yankees control the draft process enough to land them top prospects in the third round. They get picked up by teams in the mid to late first round at worst. Ialso think if that was true the Yankees would have a much better fram system than they do.

I do think it makes some amount of difference but relatively small. Slotting would make players earn their contracts and I'm all for it but that is more of an issue of how players divide their money as opposed to how rich teams get richer. Maybe Washington signing Strasburg means the don't pay Nick Johnson thus the wealthy teams get a shot at him but will never get a shot at the phenom in the draft.

[joepepsi]

You'll never see a salary cap. The lack of competitive balance is not the players' fault, it's a MLB issue. The players shouldn't have to solve the problem, it's the owners' responsibility. Also, if ownership tries to bring up a cap in negotiations, then the players will demand teams open up their books for perusal. That will stop the salary cap issure immediately.

 

The only answers are to improve the draft regulations, increase revenue sharing of media dollars, and forcing cheap teams to invest a minimal amount back into player salary and development.

[endaround]

MLB already has a cap. The fact that the Yankees ignore doesn't mean its any different than the NBA's cap.

[joepepsi]

They don't ignore it, they just feel the fine isn't enough to keep them from going over it for the right player(s).

[Invader3K]

A luxury tax is very different from the idea of a hard salary cap that is being suggested. The luxury tax in baseball is apparently a total joke.

[endaround]

It isn't a joke. Only the Yankees are willing to pay it. You're not going to get a $100m hard cap and there's no reason to get one.

[Invader3K]

It is a joke if it only affects one team.

 

$100 million as a salary cap would be unrealistically low, but I don't think something in the $120-140 range would be out of line.

[Thurston Fluff]

The only answers are to improve the draft regulations, increase revenue sharing of media dollars, and forcing cheap teams to invest a minimal amount back into player salary and development.

 

The union will not allow a salary floor either. Teams that get money form other teams are only allowed to spend that money on certain things now but it is not allowed in the CBA to force teams to pay a minimum in salary on the major league roster.

[owbc]

Bud Selig is right. Baseball is more popular than it ever has been. TV ratings are sky high. The Yankees blew away the NY Giants on Sunday. Even the small market teams that have been losing for years are getting 20,000 people per game. No team is in even moderate financial trouble, despite the recession. This is generally the case because of Bud Selig's policies over the past 15 years. It is because teams like Milwaukee, Colorado, and Florida got into the playoffs with the Wildcard. It is because he got new ballparks built that make going to the game fun even when the product on the field is bad. It is because steroids brought back the game's popularity. You don't hear people saying "baseball is boring" like they did in the 1990s.

 

That's all good, but the lack of competitive balance has always been a big elephant in the room. In the current system, the Yankees will be World Series contenders every single year. They signed contracts in one offseason that totaled the money that the Brewers will spend on all 25 of their players over the next 5 years. The contracts that the Yankees are paying to 3 players, or 15% of their roster, are worth more than the entire value of the Milwaukee Brewers franchise!

 

In 2000, the Yankees also had the highest payroll in MLB. However, there were 21 teams that had a payroll at least 50% of what the Yankees had. In 2009, there were only 7 teams with a payroll at least 50% of the Yankees. I think that is really concerning. It might not be obvious based on the past 10 years, but I predict that (without a better CBA), the next 10 years will feature an elite class of the same teams making the playoffs year after year, with other teams only occasionally making the playoffs and then falling off after a year or two. I guess the bottom teams could occasionally make the playoffs, so if you want to call that competitive balance, then go ahead.

 

I'm not necessarily in favor of a salary cap, but how about a luxury tax that actually works. In 2009, the threshold was $165 million. Thus, the Yankees were the only team that paid. Instead of a solid number, I would like to see at least the top 1/3 of teams pay into the luxury tax. Plus, the tax should not be based on payroll, but on net revenue. That requires more open bookkeeping as well.

[Thurston Fluff]

Some good points OWBC. Maybe it should stay at it's current level but have harsher penalties for exceeding it. If a team sucks to badly that it con only compete by outspending everyone else by 50% then maybe the current system is rewarding poor management. I don't think nay sport remains healthy if substandard organizations not only survive but strive simply because the system is rigged in it's favor.

[sheethead]

I would like to see a tiered luxury tax. Three levels of increasing tax depending on how badly a team wants to buy a world championship, with the third tier being so obtrusive (Yankee spending level), that it would wash out most of the profit gained by actually making it to the world series. Its not much of a game right now for Cashman and the Steinbrenners. Imagine playing monopoly with a group, and one person gets to start with double the cash as everyone else, then gets double of what everyone else gets when they pass go or collect on cards/properties. Its not their fault they get to start with all those extra resources, but it doesn't make for a fair game either.

[TooLiveBrew]

It is a joke if it only affects one team.

 

Wouldn't the fact that only one team exceeds the 'luxury cap' (or however I should phrase it) indicate that it is working?

[owbc]

Wouldn't the fact that only one team exceeds the 'luxury cap' (or however I should phrase it) indicate that it is working?

Not necessarily, because the 2nd highest payroll is $30 million under the cap. The threshold keeps going up every year, it used to be $135 million and it will be up to $175 million by 2011. That implies that payrolls of $150 million are not a "luxury".

[danzig6767]

While i get frustrated with the haves and have nots system in baseball, imagine if we were in the AL East like Baltimore, Toronto, and Tampa have to deal with? Year after year knowing that you'd not only have to beat the Yankees and their obscene payroll to win the division, you'd also have to beat out the ultra rich Red Sox.

[snyttri]

One other thing that ties into an earlier part of the discussion...how much does it suck to be an Indians fan right now? Sabathia vs Lee in the first game of the World Series. That has to hurt.

 

If the fans had supported teams winning over 90 games in recent years the Indians would be in a better position to retain players.

[The Truth]

I have to say, I think the NFL is a poor analogy. imho the NFL has gotten extremely mediocre in recent years. There may be parity and most teams have a chance to win it but the overall quality of the product has gone downhill bigtime...

 

This Yankees-Phillies matchup is very entertaining to me, 2 truely great teams filled with superstars. As a baseball fan, I've fully enjoyed this post-season. If you must do an NFL analogy, this Yankees-Phillies matchup reminds me of the classic Cowboys-49ers games pre-salary cap, i.e. 2 truely great teams going at it.

 

There are no longer great NFL teams, just ones who are a little better than mediocre.

[owbc]

I also love having 2 great teams go at it, but if that is the case, then I want to know when it is the Brewers' turn to be truly great--or is that a right that only certain cities get to have?

[The Truth]

I also love having 2 great teams go at it, but if that is the case, then I want to know when it is the Brewers' turn to be truly great--or is that a right that only certain cities get to have?

When Mark A spends the money.

 

Last year's (2008) Brew Crew could have gone further into the post-season with a few breaks (Sheets staying healthy, C.C pitching like the '09 post-season version as opposed to how he did pitch in the playoffs)... it can happen... really Sheets/CC/Yo/Bush all fully healthy in '08 could have gone far