Hardy and Hart's futures with the team

[T B0NE 10]

Is it pretty much the consensus that Hardy is going to be dealt for some pitching after the year? With Hardy's struggles and Escobar sitting there, I think it makes a lot of sense. Hardy has terrible at the plate and he is very overrated in the field. Escobar may even be the better player right now. I'd guess Escobar would manage to hit at least .240 (better than Hardy), and from what I hear is a stellar SS.

 

I understand we aren't going to get much for him right now, as his stock has gotta be low right now, but I'm pretty darn sick of having an automatic out in that 7 spot in the lineup and not getting a gold glove fielder in exchange for being so weak at the plate.

 

Hart could also land us some pitching help. He could be replaced with Gamel or we could keep Lopez and move Weeks to the outfield. But if we lose Cameron trading Hart proabably wouldn't be a great idea.

[Invader3K]

Hardy is not in the lineup tonight. I really like it. I hope Melvin makes sure that happens all season next year.

[stoutdude04]

I'd guess Escobar would manage to hit at least .240 (better than Hardy), and from what I hear is a stellar SS.

I would think Hardy is a better hitter then 240.

[T B0NE 10]

I'd guess Escobar would manage to hit at least .240 (better than Hardy), and from what I hear is a stellar SS.

I would think Hardy is a better hitter then 240.

Hardy is currently hitting .227

[logan82]

Is it pretty much the consensus that Hardy is going to be dealt for some pitching after the year?

 

No, I think the consensus is that we need pitching and Hardy would be one of the players we could trade to acquire a decent pitcher.

 

Hardy has terrible at the plate

 

He has been bad this year. If you think this year is a good representation of his talent, I think you are ignoring 2000+ AB in favor of under 400 AB and making a huge mistake in the way you evaluate players.

 

he is very overrated in the field

 

The only way this is true is if people are referring to him as a Gold Glove fielder. Every statistic(excluding fielding % since I didn't look it up and think it is a horrible way to look at defense) that evaluates defense ranks JJ among the best at defense. JJ is a very good defender.

[Hate those Rodents]

Hardy should be dealt in the off-season for pitching (probably should have been dealt earlier than this).

 

Hart, I'd like to see get a shot at the CF job rather than paying Cam a ton of money. Hart's stats now will look a whole lot better in CF, and I still think he has a chance to get over the year-plus of more average hitting that he's stuck in right now.

[logan82]

Hart's stats now will look a whole lot better in CF

 

His offense would, his defense would really suck in CF. He is slightly below average for a RF.

[Hate those Rodents]

I guess I don't appreciate Cam's defense as well as some. I know I should and I realize he's very good there. But I've watched Brewer games forever like so many of you and I hardly recall a period of time where the CF was so bad that it really stuck out. I think our defense in CF had always been just fine P.C. (Pre-Cam).

 

Didn't Kapler do fine there the 20 or so games he played in Center last year? I realize he's a downgrade to Cam, but.....come on.

[jjfanec]

I hope Hardy gets hot to end the season bumping his trade value for the off-season. Hart could get moved but for that to happen I would like McGehee and Heether to gets some looks at RF. I would also like to see Cat brought back.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Would the team even think about moving Weeks to center? I'd love to see it happen, but don't think the brass would do it.

[Funketown]

I don't think Hardy is a .227/.298/.367 hitter. He's struggled this year, but these numbers would be much better if it weren't for a .254 BABIP. Given Hardy's speed and Line Drive rate, he probably is more like a .275-.280 BABIP guy, which would make his line look a lot more respectable.

 

If a 162 game season were to start today, I'd peg Hardy for .260/.320/.430/.750 and Escobar for .280/.320/.380/.700 or so, with both being plus defenders.

[DHonks]

Hardy is back to his old self. He has stretches (like last year starting in June) where he noticeably goes to RF a lot more. But I haven't noticed him go to RF much this year.

[nate82]

I guess I don't appreciate Cam's defense as well as some. I know I should and I realize he's very good there. But I've watched Brewer games forever like so many of you and I hardly recall a period of time where the CF was so bad that it really stuck out. I think our defense in CF had always been just fine P.C. (Pre-Cam).

Hart would be bad in CF and you only have to look at what Hall did in CF a couple years ago. It wasn't bad but the difference between Hall and Cameron in CF defensively is huge the same would be true between Cameron and Hart. Hart just does not get very good reads on fly balls and it would only be worse in CF. Hart's offense would be negated by his bad defense in CF. Unlike Cameron where his defense is picking up his offense.

 

Would the team even think about moving Weeks to center? I'd love to see it happen, but don't think the brass would do it.

Weeks takes bad routes to grounders at times now imagine if he did that in CF. Instead of a single or at worst a double from misplaying a ground ball you just turned an out into a double or a triple and at worst it would be a inside the park home run. I really don't see Weeks being a good or adequate CF.

[T B0NE 10]

nate82 wrote:Weeks takes bad routes to grounders at times now imagine if he did that in CF. Instead of a single or at worst a double from misplaying a ground ball you just turned an out into a double or a triple and at worst it would be a inside the park home run. I really don't see Weeks being a good or adequate CF.

I don't believe Weeks will be moved to Center anyways. But playing 2nd vs OF is an entirely different thing. You can't conclude that since you take bad routes to grounders that you'll misread fly balls and take bad routes. Its just an entirely different thing.

[UeckerAddict]

I guess I don't appreciate Cam's defense as well as some. I know I should and I realize he's very good there. But I've watched Brewer games forever like so many of you and I hardly recall a period of time where the CF was so bad that it really stuck out. I think our defense in CF had always been just fine P.C. (Pre-Cam).

 

Didn't Kapler do fine there the 20 or so games he played in Center last year? I realize he's a downgrade to Cam, but.....come on.

Remember Alex Sanchez?

[stoutdude04]

Hardy is currently hitting .227

If your going to look at one years worth of stats and sample, then yes. He is garbage.

[Invader3K]

Tom Haudricourt was on the D-List yesterday and was commenting on how Hardy just looks like he's been defeated and given up on the season at this point. I hope the Brewers only play him sporadically from here on out, unless he gets hot. The lineup is so much better with McGehee and Counsell in it right now.

[Diskono]

Hart's stats now will look a whole lot better in CF

 

His offense would, his defense would really suck in CF. He is slightly below average for a RF.

Would Hart's speed make for a smoother transition though? Most RFs are slow, but if Hart could move over still only be slightly below average, that wouldn't be the worst thing.

[Ennder]

Hardy has put up $7M worth of value so far this season because he is good defensively so I don't think we 'have' to trade him, especially since he was a top 5 SS last season. It might be harder to trade him coming off the bad season though so we might be looking at keeping him another year, probably depends on how the rest of the season ends up.

 

The lack of power this season is what bothers me the most with him and the fact he changed his stance which might be messing up his swing in general. The really strange thing is he is hitting righties just like always but has been just terrible against lefties this season. He has a .514 OPS on the year vs lefties and for a career it is .881.

[dlk9s]

Hardy has terrible at the plate

Let's just ignore 2007 and 2008.

 

and he is very overrated in the field.

Nope. He is rated as a very good defender, which he is.

[FVBrewerFan]

I think a lot of people may be discouraged to learn both Hardy and Hart could very well be back next year. First, they are relatively cheap players. Also, both are performing under their career numbers this year. Given their performance this year, what type of pitcher do you really think you'll get for them? Finally, I'm not so sure they're prepared to throw Escobar in there as the every day SS from day one.

 

Believe me, I'm frustrated too. But we need to remember that a trade has to involve the proper risk/reward. Both Hardy and Hart have proven they can hit btter than they have this year, and to give up on them for a run-of-the-mill arm doesn't make sense. They can sign a guy like that via FA. Now if they could somehow throw Hall and/or Suppan into a trade, I would be all for it- even if we get little back. Just clearing the salary would make it a worthwhile trade.

[DougJones43]

I hardly recall a period of time where the CF was so bad that it really stuck out. I think our defense in CF had always been

just fine P.C. (Pre-Cam)

Remember Alex Sanchez?

 

And Bill Hall? And Brady Clark?...

[Invader3K]

Well, Clark had that one pretty good season at least.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think a lot of people may be discouraged to learn both Hardy and Hart could very well be back next year. First, they are relatively cheap players. Also, both are performing under their career numbers this year. Given their performance this year, what type of pitcher do you really think you'll get for them? Finally, I'm not so sure they're prepared to throw Escobar in there as the every day SS from day one.

 

Believe me, I'm frustrated too. But we need to remember that a trade has to involve the proper risk/reward. Both Hardy and Hart have proven they can hit btter than they have this year, and to give up on them for a run-of-the-mill arm doesn't make sense. They can sign a guy like that via FA. Now if they could somehow throw Hall and/or Suppan into a trade, I would be all for it- even if we get little back. Just clearing the salary would make it a worthwhile trade.

The only way both of those guys is back is because their trade value has gone down to nothing. In Hardy's case, it's getting close because guys hitting .226/.297/.366 are more likely to be non-tendered than they are to be in great demand. Fortunately, he's only one year away from a productive season, so I think somebody who needs a SS will give up something of value and the Brewers will take it to clear a spot for Escobar.

 

As for the CF discussion, I firmly believe that athletic middle infielders should be able to transition to CF. Yount did it. Hall took some time, but by midseason of 07, he was adequate. I think if they wanted Lopez back, that Lopez could do it and I think Weeks could too.

[MJLiverock]

Well, Clark had that one pretty good season at least.

But he was terrible in CF. He had to play with his heels on the warning track because he couldn't go back on ball over his head, had limited range and a below average arm. I will admit I hated watching him play CF.