Building the 2010 Brewers: Who do we deal and what/who do we look for?

[logan82]

I don't think either McGehee or Gamel have gotten enough starts in MLB this season to really determine how good or bad either of them are defensively. I think both have shown they can at least be adequate.

 

I have to agree with that. McGehee was a better defender in the minors than Gamel has been. Gamel looks more athletic to me though. Personally I think it is a case of one guy having a bad reputation as a defender. That can be very hard to shake. Just ask Rickie.

 

Can we get any information about McGehee's defense in the minors?

 

Like TheCrew mentioned, we have Total Zone for minor league players. It shows McGehee as average.

[dragoon84]

I feel like Gamel will eventually end up in the outfield, so lets get him in left, get Braun accustomed to right, slot in McGeehee at 3rd. I think this would work very well.

[igor67]

Gamel has always had the tools to be an above average defender with his range, and he finally seemed to really harness that while he was up. I don't think it's a very good use of resources to move premium bats who are average defensively (which is what he showed at the MLB level) down the defensive spectrum. As the season has gone on we've seen Casey regress more towards a reasonable projection based on his minor league numbers. Given that we have the Hurricane and Heether I see little reason not to see if you can dangle that young established major leaguer that everyone wants and get something on the pitching side along with or in separate deals for Hardy. Maybe even Hart as well. Hart is interesting because he kind of sort of hit just well enough to go with pretty good RF defense to be a justifiable cog. And the injury is probably going to reduce his arby raise. With out spending a lot more money at the position or trading some substantial value we are unlikely to get a lot more overall production (see the Dunn discussion on the value of Hart's defense). I would say that for the most part because we've had a number of players really produce beyond expectations on the infield, going to Gamel and Weeks likely won't net us any more offense at those positions over this season (though more than other combinations for next year). I would expect that JJ or Hardy would outhit what he did this year however, and we had better make some strides at catcher (which would be really hard not to do with any solution). Still we aren't going to hit our way back into a playoff team, though it could get us back comfortably over .500.

[endaround]

Braun at best is an average LFer. There is just no reason to move him.

[Mr Southpaw]

Will Fielder ever be more valuable to another team than during this off season? Two year relatively cheap for a star. If we can get two young arbyless pitchers, I say do it. Will Hardy's or Hart's value ever be lower? Probably not. So we should keep both, but with Escobar looking ready, Hardy seems like the odd man out. Maybe we can get a Young 4-5 starter for him. Then resign Lopez and Counsell. along with not signing Cameron (Type B), Hoffman (Type B) and Kendall. I would love to cut Suppan, but after doing that with Hall, I don't think we can afford that.

 

If we can make these trades and add 3 quality young arms and lose Fielder, we cannot expect much until 2011. But we will have a young and potentially potent team for the future. My lineup would look something like this......

 

1. 2B Lopez

2. CF Weeks/Geruts

3. 1B Gamel

4. LF Braun

5. 3B McGahee

6 RF Hart/Catalanatto

7. C Rivera

8. P Pitcher

9. SS Escobar

 

Bench

 

Geruts

Catalanatto

Lucroy/ Salome

Counsell

 

Starting Pitchers

 

1. Gallardo

2. Young Stud #1

3. Bush

4. Parra

5. Young Stud #2

 

Bullpen

 

LR Suppan

LR Young Stud #3

Riske

Stetter

Coffey

DiFelice

Villanuava

Braddock

 

I think we could win 75- 80 games and be very exciting in 2011 and beyond.

[twobrewers]

Do you think Cardinal fan's always wanted to trade away Albert Pujols?

 

Prince in 2008 was pretty mediocre - and somewhat replaceable. Prince in 2007 and 2009 has been elite.

 

If the Brewers are going to be contenders, we need to build around Prince.

[Mr Southpaw]

He is only with us for the next two years. Where will we get the pitching from?

[Invader3K]

Spend a bit of the extra money they should have accumulated from selling over 6 million tickets in two seasons, and signing a new TV contract?

[snyttri]

According to Articles 19e and 21b of Major League Baseball's Basic Agreement, "If a player is optionally assigned for a total of less than 20 days in one championship season, the player shall be credited with Major League service during the period of such optional assignment(s)."

 

August 12th through August 31st would be 19 days. The first day has not been completed in counting days (not just MLB) until the next day, August 13th. If he's back in the majors on September 1st he will not have been in the minors for 20 days.

[MNBrew]

As long as the counting doesn't start 'til the 1st full day in the minors -- since Hardy spent the 1st part of the 12th as a Brewer -- then a recall on Sept. 1st preserves his service time.

 

If the counting includes the 12th, then Aug. 31st is the 20th day and no FA possibility for J.J. until after 2011.

 

Just so things don't get sticky and people don't start to get testy, I hope the Brewers recall in time NOT to lose this year as a full season of MLB service time. And even more strongly, I hope Hardy performs in such a way that justifies such a move. That would be in everyone's best interest, including getting J.J. back on track so he has greater value as a tradeable asset this winter.

[Invader3K]

I really hope they leave him down there. The Brewers should hold JJ accountable for his poor play (both in MLB and so far at AAA) and leave him down there as long as possible. It would be nice for them to get some extra value out of him, in order to help facilitate a trade in the off-season.

[paul253]

I haven't followed this thread too much lately, but looking at the title of it, I think the Brewers really need two things this off season. 1) The need a lead off hitter. I'm talking about someone who can get on base, can run, can work a count. The one person who comes to mind for me is Nyger Morgan. I've wanted him in our lineup all season. I'm sorry, but I just don't think Mike Cameron is what we need. I don't want people now arguing that he's exactly what we need and he's worth $18 million and he isnt the problem. I just don't think we need that type of player in our lineup next season, and considering he's a free agent, he would make sense to go. That would leave us with a lineup something like

1) Morgan

2) Weeks

3) Braun

4) Fielder

5) Hart

6) Gamel

7) Rivera/Salome

8) Escobar.

 

I think that a nice balanced lineup. Morgan and Escobar can steal bases (if Macha actually lets them) Braun and Fielder can hit for power and average. Weeks and Hart are fair hitters who are capale of both power and speed. A bench that includes Heether and McGehee would provide good solid play in case of injury or another players struggles and they can both play multiple positions. Back up outfielders are going to be needed, but those are never super hard to find. A bullpen would include Coffey, Villanueva, Riske, Stetter, and Difelice for sure with two more spots available (hopefully one for Hoffman and then long relief assuming CV isn't long relief). Hardy then can be shopped for pitching, though I don't figure he'll get much, but at least maybe the depth we didn't have this year. Starting pitching is what it is. Parra, Bush, Gallardo and Suppan will all be back. I don't see the need for a major roster overhaul, but you need more balance in the lineup.

[Never Outhustled]

I think the Brewers really need two things this off season. 1) The need a lead off hitter. I'm talking about someone who can get on base, can run, can work a count. The one person who comes to mind for me is Nyger Morgan

Why would Washington want to trade Morgon if he's so great? If they traded him, wouldn't they want pitching? Morgan has had a great year, but it makes he makes no sense for us. Cameron will be more WAR than any FA pitcher we'd sign for a similar price. Keep him and concentrate our trade resources on finding 3 young MLB pitchers who have upside.

[paul253]

Washington is on pace to lose well over 100 games. I highly doubt they'd consider Morgan untouchable. I'm sure a few prospects, like maybe Frederickson and one or two more guys like maybe Logan Schafer and Chris Cody could get him. And why doesn't he make any sense for us? He's an ideal lead off hitter, something we haven't had since probably Podsednik. He gets on base at a good rate. He steals a ton of bases. He's also about 10x cheaper than Cameron is going to be. We don't have to go out and spend that money right away, but in a few seasons Gallardo is going to have to be re-signed. He's 8 years younger than Cameron and is someone who could play CF for a few more years for us. Also, having him would allow Rickie Weeks to finally move down in the order and drive in some more runs. I think he makes perfect sense for us next year, a lot more sense than Mike Cameron (and whatever his price would be) would make.

[endaround]

He's not untouchable but they have no reason to trade a guy making minimum for any reason.

[paul253]

If they can get two or three guys they think can help then they will. This team is not going anywhere any time soon. I'm not saying they're just going to give him away, but i think a few mid ceiling prospects could get him.

[nate82]

If they can get two or three guys they think can help then they will. This team is not going anywhere any time soon. I'm not saying they're just going to give him away, but i think a few mid ceiling prospects could get him.

Mid ceiling pitching prospects yes but positional players no. The Brewers can not afford trading a mid ceiling pitching prospect for someone like Morgan.

[paul253]

I think someone like Frederickson would be ideal. He has a lot of potential if he can throw strikes, but that appears to be a big if right now. But either way, Morgan is just a name I threw out there. I couldn't think of someone comparable, but I think that's the type of player we could use in the lineup.

[Never Outhustled]

I'm sure a few prospects, like maybe Frederickson and one or two more guys like maybe Logan Schafer and Chris Cody could get him.

Why would they trade him for less than what they gave up to get him? They gave up Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan.

 

If you were the Nationals GM, what would you want for him? I'm guessing if you were them you wouldn't except a few B list guys for him.

 

 

He's also about 10x cheaper than Cameron is going to be. We don't have to go out and spend that money right away, but in a few seasons Gallardo is going to have to be re-signed

If we not going to spend the money we would needed to compete next year, why bother acquiring a guy that turns 30 next year?

[paul253]

Lastings Milledge is what he is. At this point he doesn't appear that he's going to get any better, IMO. I don't know anything about Hanrahan so I can't comment on him. Cody is someone they could maybe plug into their rotation next season. Frederickson is a high rish, high reward pitcher who could be a steal, or could be a bust. It depends on whether their GM wants to take that risk. Schafer is someone who could put similar numbers to Morgan in a few years, with less speed but probably a little more power. I'm not saying...hey lets trade Frederickson, Cody, and Schafer for Morgan. I'm just suggesting names that may be used to get him. Substitute some of your own names if you'd like.

 

If we not going to spend the money we would needed to compete next year, why bother acquiring a guy that turns 30 next year?

Instead you want to keep someone who's going to turn, what, 37? Haha and I'm not saying don't spend the money. Spend it.....i don't care. Don't waste it on someone just to spend it though.

 

The other thing I don't understand is this. I'm not really referring to anyone in particular, just a feeling in general. I noticed this a bit on the Nyger Morgan thread too. People say, oh he's old, he's not as good on defense, he can't hit for power, he's on the way down....but then.....oh well Washington would never trade him. If he's as bad as some people imply, why wouldn't Washington trade him?

[Never Outhustled]

Instead you want to keep someone who's going to turn, what, 37?

Your the one who proposed not spending, not me. What signs of regression is Cameron showing? His OPS has increased for the 3rd straigth year.

 

 

If he's as bad as some people imply, why wouldn't Washington trade him?

 

Its not that Washington wouldn't deal him, its just that they have no reason to deal him cheap. Why give up something in trade when we could just keep Cameron?

[paul253]

Your the one who proposed not spending, not me. What signs of regression is Cameron showing? His OPS has increased for the 3rd straigth year.

 

I didn't propose not spending the money. I said " We don't have to go out and spend that money right away, but in a few seasons Gallardo is going to have to be re-signed". Then I said " Haha and I'm not saying don't spend the money. Spend it.....i don't care. Don't waste it on someone just to spend it though." There was never anything about NOT spending it. I also never said one negative thing about Cameron. I said that I think Morgan would be better for the lineup than Cameron. Beside, you made it sound as though Morgan turning 30 was some huge deal, all I did was point that Cameron was 7 years older. We can't keep trotting out the same players every season waiting for them all to put together good seasons at the same time. The offense is inconsistant and something needs to be changed. Getting a lead off hitter who will hit close to .300 and steal 40 bases is a good start, I think

Why give up something in trade when we could just keep Cameron?

 

Because he is 10 times more expensive, Morgan would bring a better balance to the lineup than Cameron does, and Morgan is someone who could play center field for us for another 4 or 5 years, which is something Cameron can not do.

[Never Outhustled]

The offense is inconsistant and something needs to be changed

There isn't 1 bit of evidence that supports this notion.

 

 

Getting a lead off hitter who will hit close to .300 and steal 40 bases is a good start, I think

Morgan will likely continue to have an inferior OPS to Cameron, which means he will cause us to score fewer runs.

 

 

Morgan would bring a better balance to the lineup than Cameron does,

We don't need more balance in our lineup, we need a higher team OPS. The 2 NL teams that score more runs per game have higher team OPS. If we're going to become the top run scoring team in the NL, we will have to increase our team OPS.

[Invader3K]

If people are dying for a solid leadoff hitter, why not just keep Lopez around? He's been great this season.

[paul253]

I'd be fine with that but what are you going to do with Weeks? He has no trade value. I suppose you could try him in center but thats a big risk.

Morgan will likely continue to have an inferior OPS to Cameron, which means he will cause us to score fewer runs.

Morgan hits for a better average, gets on base more, and will likely steal close to three times as many bases as Cameron. Just because Cameron hits more home runs does not provide any evidence we will score more runs. Listen, I see your point for Cameron, I just disagree. The Brewers are dead last in stolen bases, 6th in all of baseball in strikeouts, and 15th in batting average. Adding Morgan and subtracting Cameron would improve all of those. Meanwhile, they are 10th in home runs (3rd in the NL) so I think they could spare a little of the all or nothing type offense they seem to have for someone who's going to be more likely to get on base. And we're also talking Cameron at, at least this year, almost 20 times the price of Morgan.