Nyjer Morgan: Do people here like him?

[liveforoctober]

I know he signed with Pittsburgh on a one-year deal this past year... so that makes him a free agent. I don't think he has re-upped with Washington? I dunno, maybe it is just because he seemed to be on base during 80% of the innings that we played Washington... but is Lorenzo Cain going to be ready next year?

I want Morgan, he is going to get a raise, but is still very affordable. (for the sake of keeping the boxing gloves in storage... I don't want to get into Rickie Weeks being our/a leadoff hitter.. we can debate that all winter)

Do people here like him as much as I do?

[trwi7]

so that makes him a free agent.

Not it doesn't. He's years away from being a free agent. Not enough service time.

[Tailgat0r76]

Yep, it's just like last year with Prince. We signed him to a one-year deal, but it didn't mean he was a free agent after it.

 

But I do agree with you; I feel like Nyjer would be a perfect addition to our team.

[JoeHova]

Prince was signed to a two year deal, but was still under control for 3 years.

 

Morgan has been on fire recently. He's a nice little player but the cost to get him from the Nats would probably be prohibitively high, especially if he keeps hitting .387 (which is what he's hitting since leaving Pittsburgh). That's not too likely, but this kind of hot streak will keep a team enamored with a player for awhile.

[TooLiveBrew]

I like him as a base-stealer, and the speed seems to translate well to the outfield. In terms of hitting talent, I think he can't be hard to replace/duplicate.

 

If push came to shove, I would rather the Brewers just retain Gerut for CF as opposed to giving up something to get Morgan... even though his first name is spelled with a "y" http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[endaround]

Morgan is older than you think most likely. He turns 30 next year.

[JoeHova]

Morgan is older than you think most likely. He turns 30 next year.

 

30 is hardly washed up. It sounded to me like liveforoctober had Morgan in mind as a one-year stopgap in CF until Cain is ready.

[kramnoj]

Morgan is older than you think most likely. He turns 30 next year.

 

What is the point of this comment? Didn't you just write that speed ages very well?

[sheethead]

The thought of Gerut in CF full-time for the Brewers next year makes me just as ill as thinking about Gabe Gross in CF full-time. I really hope Melvin doesn't subject me to a summer-long illness. Hopefully Cam will give it one more go for a discounted price of around $6-7 million.

[Baldkin]

Why in the heck would Cam do that, when he'll probably get offered at least 2 yrs/20m on the open market?

 

I've heard that sentiment on the radio and in posts quite often recently, "I want Cam back, but he's too expensive" he's more than outplayed his contract this year I just don't understand the sentiment.

[JohnBriggs12]

The thought of Gerut in CF full-time for the Brewers next year makes me just as ill as thinking about Gabe Gross in CF full-time. I really hope Melvin doesn't subject me to a summer-long illness. Hopefully Cam will give it one more go for a discounted price of around $6-7 million.

The options for CF next year aren't limited to Cameron and Gerut. The FA crop is fairly thin. Byrd, Ankiel, Reed Johnson, Baldelli, and most likely Crisp are the biggest names. An Ankiel/Hall platoon isn't that far fetched. But there may be guys available in deals too. Don't completely rule out Jason Bourgeois either.

 

But the real interesting option is if they re-sign Lopez, and decide to move either him or Weeks to CF. Both have a lot of athleticism. Lopez has played some OF but not CF.

[paul253]

If push came to shove, I would rather the Brewers just retain Gerut for CF as opposed to giving up something to get Morgan... even though his first name is spelled with a "y" http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

You cannot be serious. Gerut has been atrocious this year! You're really willing to play him full time for an entire year? Nyger Morgan would be a perfect fit for this team. I'd trade a prospect or two to get him. Lorenzo Cain can just as easily replace Hart in right field as he can play center. Plus, he's really struggling in AA. What if he doesn't pan out? He's one of our only decent outfield prospects, and the only one above A ball.

[JohnBriggs12]

Why in the heck would Cam do that, when he'll probably get offered at least 2 yrs/20m on the open market?

 

I've heard that sentiment on the radio and in posts quite often recently, "I want Cam back, but he's too expensive" he's more than outplayed his contract this year I just don't understand the sentiment.

Not a chance he'll get offered that in the current market. Yes he plays a premium position but look what some very accomplished corner outfielders of similar age that are considerably more productive than Cameron offensively got this past offseason (Abreu, Garret Anderson). Remember to that Jim Edmonds was forced into retirement after a better season offensively than Cameron's having. Edmonds was just a year and a half older last offseason than Cameron will be this offseason. Cameron might get a 2 year deal for around $12 million but that's about it. I think it's more likely he'd get a one year deal for $5-6 million with some incentives that could bring it to the $7.5 million range.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I agree with JohnBriggs. Teams are really valuing younger, cheaper players these days. They aren't going to throw a lot of money at a CF in his mid 30's.

[endaround]

Morgan is older than you think most likely. He turns 30 next year.

 

What is the point of this comment? Didn't you just write that speed ages very well?

The point is that most treat him like he has a high ceiling but his current line likely represents his appex and he'll start to fall off. Now if his defense is as good as it seems he'll still be good even if his OPS is closer to 730 then 750 but his true defensive value at this point is unknown.

[kramnoj]

Yes he plays a premium position but look what some very accomplished corner outfielders of similar age that are considerably more productive than Cameron offensively got this past offseason (Abreu, Garret Anderson).

 

How long has it been since Anderson has been "considerably more productive than Cameron"?

 

Remember to that Jim Edmonds was forced into retirement after a better season offensively than Cameron's having.

 

Edmonds last year isn't better than what Cameron is doing so far, and he wasn't an asset defensively.

[kramnoj]

The point is that most treat him like he has a high ceiling but his current line likely represents his appex and he'll start to fall off.

 

First, I don't see any evidence here that most treat him like he has a high ceiling. Second, if speed ages very well, why will he start to fall off?

[TheCrew07]

Speed doesn't age well because players that get bye on speed lose a big part of their game when they lose a step as they get older. Speed might mature late as Melvin has suggested in the past, but those are 2 entirely different concepts.

[Never Outhustled]

Not a chance he'll get offered that in the current market. Yes he plays a premium position but look what some very accomplished corner outfielders of similar age that are considerably more productive than Cameron offensively got this past offseason (Abreu, Garret Anderson).

How can you even begin to compare Garret Anderson to Mike Cameron? Cameron is on pace to be worth just as many WAR as last year. Last year Cameron was worth more WAR than Garret Anderson was worth the last 4 seasons combined !

 

Cameron is on pace to be worth over 4 WAR for the 3rd time in 4 years. He is showing no signs of slowing down. He will do well in FA, and I hope we keep him.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I think that what happened to Abreu and Anderson was largely a function of a glut of good bat - no glove corner OFs on the market at a time when the economy was really depressing the market for all FAs. Just supply and demand.

 

Edmonds didn't get a new gig because he seemed pretty insistent on being the primary CF going into the season, and enough teams have wisened up some about evaluating defense that it doesn't matter anymore that he used to win gold gloves.

 

On the original topic, I like Morgan's defense but I'm wary of any hitter that needs to hit over .300 to be a useful offensive player. His base-stealing would be nice if he didn't get caught so often, but so far in his MLB career he has gotten caught often enough that his teams would be better off if he never ran at all.

[dadofandrew]

Morgan is pesky, but he's barely better than Gwynn. Guys that can hit .350/.400 aren't bad, but they aren't fellas you try and trade for either. He'll be 30 soon, so he's likely hit his "peak" anyway.

[JoeHova]

Speed doesn't age well because players that get bye on speed lose a big part of their game when they lose a step as they get older. Speed might mature late as Melvin has suggested in the past, but those are 2 entirely different concepts.

This is wrong. All the studies say that fast players age better than slow players, presumably because they have much more speed to lose before they are unplayably slow.

[sbrylski]

Morgan is apparently a stellar defensive CFer, like 2 wins above average on defense. I would like to add him but greatly prefer if he were replacing Kendall in the batting order, not as a leadoff guy. He doesn't walk much - his okay OBP is supported by an inconsistent LD%. If we can bring a catcher bat like Ryan Doumit or something, then Nyger's bat is much more tolerable.

 

But I see Cameron brought back again.

[RoseBowlMtg]

Nyjer has been great for my fantasy team but the cs stat doesn't matter. I love his defense and the way he is pesky. Two things the Crew could use!

[TheCrew07]

No it's pretty much true across all sports... players who's career's are based on speed need to become better players in other areas to compensate (like all players) as their physical skills decline. In football receivers go from home run threats to possession receivers, Corners move to Safety, etc. I think it all depends on how they did the study... will Juan Pierre ever steal 65 bases again? Will Furcal ever steal 46? Barry Bonds once stole 52 bases in a season, was he a speed player at the end of his career?

 

Scientific studies actually bear out that foot speed is typically the first natural ability to begin to slide, or rather the most noticeable, on average we'll lose around 15% of our reaction time as we age, in addition to natural reduction in muscle tissue which leads to shorter strides, less explosiveness, etc... this of course leads to a decrease in foot speed.

 

Just because a statistician did a study, doesn't mean it's correct in it's methods or base assumptions. There aren't many players left in the game who play slick D, run the like wind, and hit around .200 yet have a starting gig, those days are long gone. In most cases players like Escobar and Andrus are as close as you're going to get to a "speed" player, but that type of player also has the ability to mature into something greater than a slap hitting MI. For players like Hart, Braun, and Cameron, speed is just one aspect of their overall game, it's not their entire game, so I'm unsure how it's fair to claim that speed ages better. Especially since all players age better now do to the advances in weight training, stretching, diet, and injury rehabilitation. What's probably the most true, is that players who are the most physically fit will age the best... therefore a player like Braun will age better than a player like Fielder. Some day maybe Hardy will move from SS to 3B... the only place for Prince to go is to DH. It's not so much speed, as a player's overall level fitness, it just happens that usually players who can run are also the most physically fit.