Bill Hall Trade Targets

[marty22]

Following THaudricourt's article in Sunday's paper, I was trying to come up with come possible trade targets for a bad-contract swap as proposed by TH. We'd obviously be looking for someone whose contract expires after next year, as Hall's does, otherwise the trade wouldn't match up financially. A few of my ideas:

 

Eric Byrnes - owed 11MM next year, FA in 2011

Kenji Johjima - owed 8MM next year, FA in 2011

Jose Guillen - owed 12MM next year, FA in 2011

Jeremy Bonderman - owed 12.5MM next year, FA in 2011

Nate Robertson - owed 10MM next year, FA in 2011

Kei Igawa - owed 4MM in 2010 and 2011, FA in 2012

[nate82]

Eric Byrnes - owed 11MM next year, FA in 2011

Kenji Johjima - owed 8MM next year, FA in 2011

Jose Guillen - owed 12MM next year, FA in 2011

Jeremy Bonderman - owed 12.5MM next year, FA in 2011

Nate Robertson - owed 10MM next year, FA in 2011

Kei Igawa - owed 4MM in 2010 and 2011, FA in 2012

Eric Byrnes no thanks way too much for a 4th OF. Johjima would take more than Hall and I would rather have Rivera Corporan behind the plate. Guillen same as Byrnes. Bonderman OK but he makes more than Hall does next year. Robertson I can see and their contracts are about the same. Igawa thank you but no thanks.

 

Hall is only owed $8.4M next year if the Brewers can't get someone for around that price they shouldn't be really trading Hall. Even if you take in Hall's buyout in '11 which is $500k and the Brewers will exercise that buyout Hall is cheaper than nearly all of the options you listed. Johjima and Igawa are the only two players who are lower than Hall in salary. Both Igawa and Johjima would take more than Hall to get in a trade. Straight up for either one of them sure but not if there are any prospects involved going for those guys.

 

It doesn't make sense to dump Hall and take on Guillen or Byrnes contracts.

[DHonks]

I'd rather trade Hardy and Hart for pitching and a RF while allowing Hall to be the SS. The reality of it is that if we're going to pay Hall's contract, he might as well play for us. If he plays well, we deal him in July '10. If he plays poorly, we release him. Either way, it gets Escobar to the big leagues in mid '10.

[kramnoj]

I'd rather trade Hardy and Hart for pitching and a RF while allowing Hall to be the SS. The reality of it is that if we're going to pay Hall's contract, he might as well play for us

 

I would much rather release Hall and have Escobar at SS.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I can't see Hall being the starting shortstop next year. It's either going to be Hardy or Escobar, period.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'd add Chris Snyder to the list of potential targets for Hall. He's lost his job to Montero and is owed $4.75 in 2010 and 5.75 in 2011 with a $750,000 buyout option for 2012. That's a lot to pay for a backup catcher.

 

Even with his having an off year, Snyder still has some power to go with some OB skills at a position that's unsettled for the Brewers and if he were to revert to his 06-08 form, he'd be a huge upgrade over Kendall.

 

You'd have to add something in addition to Hall to get him, but I'd be exploring it.

[RobertR]

I'm really not interested in anyone who's contract lasts longer than Hall's. At least his contract is coming off the books and you have flexibility. O.k., maybe Igawa, since even if he doesn't start he might be o.k. in the bullpen, but that's about it.

 

Bill Hall's contract is a sunk cost. But we're out from under it soon. Heck, waiving him and using the $500K or so savings for signing multiple Latin America prospects is a better option than picking up a contract longer than his is already.

 

Robert

[Hate those Rodents]

That's a good point DHonks. Do you know roughly how long we'd have to keep Escobar down before calling him up for good next year to delay his free agency a year? Is it May or June sometime?

[endaround]

It depends if they burn more service time bringing him up in September.

[Tbadder]

I'd make the Snyder trade in a heartbeat even if I had to give up minor prospects. I can't see anyone on the horizon in the minors. Kendall has finally driven me off the ledge, and Snyder would be a big upgrade if he is an average defensive catcher.

[Hate those Rodents]

I guess I think the opposite. I happen to feel we have two soon-to-be ready major league catchers in Salome and Lucroy. At some point, we need to be going with guys from our own system rather than filling every position with a trade or free agent signing. We seem to have a reluctance to do this for any non-allstar. We need to allow Salome a shot next year imho as one of our two catchers. If he doesn't pan out, Lucroy should be ready by June next year.

[Tbadder]

Actually I do agree. We need to give our minor leaguers a chance. I just don't think Salome will succeed, and Lucroy seems like a back up to me at this point, though I could see him turning it around.

[JohnBriggs12]

Having Snyder did not prevent the D-Backs from developing Montero as a young catcher. They just didn't treat Snyder like the Brewers treated Kendall. Neither of those guys is Johnny Bench. The D-Backs realized that with Snyder, but Brewers still haven't. Neither Salome or Lucroy seem ready to take a number one catching job in 2010. Lucroy might be ready to be a backup but Salome might need another year for defensive development. The total owed Snyder of $11.25 would be offset largely by dumping the $8.9 million owed Hall, so I don't get the "sunken cost" angle.

 

In Snyder, they'd be getting a guy who doesn't turn 29 until February. He should be still in his prime, not well past it as was the case with Miller and Kendall. Should Snyder have a decent year, he still would have trade value if you wanted to make room for Salome or Lucroy.

[joepepsi]

I like the idea of Hall for Johjima, but I bet Jack Z wouldn't. Having Kenji for a year means we could dump Kendall once and for all, plus give Salome and LuCroy another season in the minors to assert themselves. Hall would be useful on the Mariners as well, but Kenji has more value right now. Which means the Brewers would have to throw someone else in. Then it wouldn't be worth it.

[Never Outhustled]

I'd rather trade Hardy and Hart for pitching and a RF while allowing Hall to be the SS. The reality of it is that if we're going to pay Hall's contract, he might as well play for us. If he plays well, we deal him in July '10. If he plays poorly, we release him. Either way, it gets Escobar to the big leagues in mid '10.

I really like this idea DHonks. If Hall fails at SS, they could just use Counsell their until mid-season next year. If Hall hits decent in RF the next month, this could become a viable alternative. Hall was always an underated defender at SS.

 

I'm just suprised others want to make the same mistake with Escobar the Melvin made with Hardy. If Melvin had waiting to call up Hardy until he was ready, he'd be Brewers property through 2011. If that had happened, it would be a no brainer to deal Escobar for Halladay. I understand that Escobar might become an outstanding player, but his best years will be 2012-2016. If we bring him up to start next year, we miss out on an expected big year in 2016, just so we can get marginal production in 2010. Hall might give us marginal, or better, production in 2010.

[RobertR]

Having Snyder did not prevent the D-Backs from developing Montero as a young catcher. They just didn't treat Snyder like the Brewers treated Kendall. Neither of those guys is Johnny Bench. The D-Backs realized that with Snyder, but Brewers still haven't. Neither Salome or Lucroy seem ready to take a number one catching job in 2010. Lucroy might be ready to be a backup but Salome might need another year for defensive development. The total owed Snyder of $11.25 would be offset largely by dumping the $8.9 million owed Hall, so I don't get the "sunken cost" angle.

 

In Snyder, they'd be getting a guy who doesn't turn 29 until February. He should be still in his prime, not well past it as was the case with Miller and Kendall. Should Snyder have a decent year, he still would have trade value if you wanted to make room for Salome or Lucroy.

 

The D'Backs don't have Macha as their manager. I haven't really soured on Macha, but it sure does appear that he has a few blindspots. Working in young position players being one of them.

 

Then again, maybe Macha is just really sour on Rivera. Although, if that was the case, you'd think the Brewers would do something since they're theoretically still in a pennant chase and backup catchers aren't that hard to acquire.

 

I'm sort of in the camp of "it's not the money, it's the years." If the scouts really liked Snyder and think he'll bounce back, then sure I guess it could work out. But, if a team is willing to dump him for Bill Hall, I'm kind of assuming the worst that he'd be hard to dump in a year.

 

Robert

[igor67]

I'd want to do some work, and I would have at least some concern about how our young catchers were going to be worked in, but at this point neither one has had a year that really forces the issue. I'm kind of amenable to the Snyder angle with maybe a fringy player thrown in. Given limited options for improvement at that position it makes more sens to bring in a potential solution and spread out that cost over 2 years. Worst case your back to having to cut the guy and eat some salary. It's much easier to do that as the price tag gets smaller, and the organizational attachment is less. There is also the idea that bad contracts get easier to unload in smaller doses.

[kramnoj]

I understand that Escobar might become an outstanding player, but his best years will be 2012-2016.

 

How have you convinced yourself this is so certain? Seems like a part of Escobar's value is his speed, and I don't expect that to be as good in 2016.

 

The service time issue certainly deserves consideration. It wouldn't hurt Escobar to spend a couple of more months in AAA and go with Counsell plus other UI (Heether/whoever) until June or whatever.

[endaround]

Why? Speed players age very well and it not like he's 25 now. In 2016 he'll be 29 and hopefully have developed more power.

[kramnoj]

The best basestealers have been better in their 20s. Even when he develops more power, how much will it be?

 

It certainly is possible that X's contention is correct. I just have don't believe it's a given.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Does service time count for a Sept call up?

 

Also, Hall should be DFA'd, you can't play 1 man short all year.

[MNBrew]

Does service time count for a Sept call up?

Any time spent on a ML roster = ML service time.

[TooLiveBrew]

Sept. service time doesn't count against a player's rookie status, which imo is why it's confusing.