developing pitching

[mancl]

It has been reported a lot lately that the Brewer organization has done a poor job of developing pitching. Why? How much of the problem comes from not acquiring talent and how much of the problem comes from not developing the talent available i.e. coaching?
Do you see any changes coming in the off season in terms of replacing minor league pitching coaches for example?

[greeg35]

I'd say it is neither lack of drafting talent nor bad coaching; but most of it could be chalked up to bad luck or having a bad eye for injury risks. I'm willing to give our new guy drafting (forgetting his name at the moment) a few years before starting to turn things over. Jack Z. and his predecessors just didn't seem to have an eye for pitching (apologies to Yo).

[biedergb]

The new guys you are referring to is Bruce Seid. And with regard to pitching, almost all teams have had a problem with developing quality pitchers. However in 10 years our draft has developed three quality starters in Sheets, Parra and Gallardo. Which would probably be middle to just below average for the league. The lack of pitching has been magnified by the exceptional talent in the hiters (Weeks, Fielder, Braun, Hart, Gamel and even LaPorta) that have been developed or conitnue to be developed. Hopefully a little luck comes our way, as guys like Jones, Rogers and Jeffress all had upside and the injuries/issues they have developed were not easily predicted (Jones was always mentioned as having an 'easy' delivery that made him less prone to injury, Rogers was a northeasterner and therefore had little 'mileage' on his arm, and Jeffress certainly can't see the forest for all the grass).

 

The big issues are that we haven't developed enough pitchers who could at least be serviceable relievers, therefore we have to trade or sign our bullpen, leaving less for us to focus on the starters in trade or FA, and those we did gamble on (ie, Suppan) have not produced to expectations.

[TooLiveBrew]

We've brought a lot of big, hard throwers into the system this year

That's from the 2010 Dominican Summer League thread... Bruce Seid talking about 18yo RHP Joel Dicent. I feel like with Seid, it's 'so far, so good' in terms of his performance. I'm pretty happy with how the organization has been targeting arms, personally. Seid has mentioned velocity in some way or another numerous times, so I'm guessing this isn't a temporary focus. That should make TheCrew07 happy http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[TheCrew07]

I'd say it is neither lack of drafting talent nor bad coaching; but most of it could be chalked up to bad luck or having a bad eye for injury risks.

I'm willing to give our new guy drafting (forgetting his name at the moment) a few years before starting to turn things over. Jack Z. and his predecessors

just didn't seem to have an eye for pitching (apologies to Yo).

I'd say the exact opposite. It's a lack of drafting quality arms, arms pushed too far, and questionable training staff from the top on down. Things look better now, but they also looked pretty good in 2003. We'll see.

[Patrick425]

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I thought this was the best place to put this. I have not seen any threads or thoughts about the June draft. Are there any early indications of who the top picks might be or some of the players that the Brewers might be targeting with their pick?

[Mass Haas]

You must add our own colbyjack's fantastic site www.5tooltalk.com, to your favorites.

 

Also read his Crack of the Bat columns at at pgcrosschecker.com

 

A little early for specific Brewer rumors, but any links or news will be posted on our 2010 Draft Forum.

[JohnBriggs12]

The only quality guy produced over the past decade is Gallardo. Sheets was drafted in 1999. Parra isn't a quality major league pitcher yet and may never be.

 

That's a terrible record and much worse than the Brewers themselves did in the 1990's under the much maligned Sal Bando.

 

Drafting is an issue, but the fact that no pitcher taken after the 2nd round has made any impact at the major league level is indicative of problems in player development. By contrast, in their own division, the Cubs have a 38th round pick in their rotation, Randy Wells, and a 6th rounder, Sean Marshall, as a valuable swing man.

[zzzmanwitz]

Its just really hard to draft and develop young pitching. From 2000-2007, only 94 pitchers have been drafted that have at least 10 wins, an ERA below 5.00, and a WHIP below 1.5. 4 teams have not drafted on of these players. The Brewers only 1, Yovanni Gallardo.

 

If I raise the Criteria to 18 wins, 4.40 ERA, and 1.3 WHIP, there are only 23 players drafted that meet that criteria.

 

Year Round Drafting Team Player G W L ERA WHIP

2004 1 Angels Jered Weaver 110 51 27 3.73 1.25

2000 17 Athletics Rich Harden 135 50 29 3.39 1.24

2004 24 Blue Jays Jesse Litsch 51 20 19 3.83 1.30

2003 3 Blue Jays Shaun Marcum 89 24 17 3.95 1.28

2000 1 Braves Adam Wainwright 149 46 24 3.17 1.26

2004 2 Brewers Yovani Gallardo 54 22 17 3.57 1.29

2001 2 Cardinals Dan Haren 196 79 62 3.61 1.18

2001 1 Cubs Mark Prior 106 42 29 3.51 1.23

2000 8 D'backs Brandon Webb 199 87 62 3.27 1.24

2006 1 Giants Tim Lincecum 90 40 17 2.9 1.15

2002 1 Giants Matt Cain 138 44 51 3.53 1.25

2005 42 Indians Tim Lincecum 90 40 17 2.9 1.15

2002 4 Marlins Josh Johnson 86 34 16 3.4 1.29

2000 4 Nationals Cliff Lee 194 90 52 3.97 1.3

2002 6 Orioles John Maine 99 40 33 4.22 1.3

2002 1 Phillies Cole Hamels 116 48 34 3.67 1.18

2000 3 Pirates Chris Young 131 46 34 3.87 1.21

2000 16 Rays James Shields 118 43 36 4.01 1.23

2002 1 Royals Zack Greinke 177 50 53 3.73 1.27

2004 1 Tigers Justin Verlander 132 65 43 3.92 1.28

2005 2 Twins Kevin Slowey 56 26 15 4.39 1.28

2002 2 Twins Jesse Crain 305 32 20 3.5 1.27

2003 2 Twins Scott Baker 111 43 33 4.27 1.26

[Baldkin]

Considering both Cy Young winners had less than 18 wins last year, I'd say that criteria is a bit skewed.... but it does show how rare pitching really is.

[hurricanecrush]

That is 18 career wins, not wins in a season.

[zzzmanwitz]

Yes... Was pulling career numbers. Sorry I wasn't clear.