Tim Kurkjian's Deadline Analysis (Merged: Biggest Losers of the 2009 Deadline)

[chansen]

Just saw the winners and losers of the trade deadline and he was talking about the Brewers. While I agree with him to a certain degree that the Brewers needed to do something, he was way off on some other stuff he said. First, the Brewers were not going to get a rental pitcher and the market this year was bad other than Lee and Halladay. Second, he said the Brewers just did not have the finances to make a trade. Huh? Mark A. is a genius and the team's attendance is good. I believe we probably have the finances to make some kind of trade. Lastly, he said we did not have the talent to make a trade! WHAT? Hello Mat Gamel, Alcides Escobar, Brett Lawrie, etc... That may have been the dumbest thing a MLB analyst could say. Yes, I am a little upset we did not get a starter, but one pitcher would not make this team 100% better. In the end I like Melvin not giving up the farm to get a mediocore starting pitcher.

 

One other thing, Kirkjen also said the Brewers could not give up prospects like they did last season to get CC. He was saying the farm system was depleted after that trade. Interesting...

 

Edit: Fixed thread title --cc

[nate82]

Second, he said the Brewers just did not have the finances to make a trade. Huh? Mark A. is a genius and the team's attendance is good. I believe we probably have the finances to make some kind of trade. Lastly, he said we did not have the talent to make a trade! WHAT? Hello Mat Gamel, Alcides Escobar, Brett Lawrie, etc...

 

One other thing, Kirkjen also said the Brewers could not give up prospects like they did last season to get CC. He was saying the farm system was depleted after that trade. Interesting...

For the most part he was wrong but the Brewers didn't have the talent to make a trade. Nearly all the teams wanted pitching in return which the Brewers do not have. If the Brewers had MLB ready pitching in the minors they would be up on the team right now. It is definitely not a depleted farm system the Astros and the Cubs have depleted farm systems but not the Brewers. As for the finances they will always say that on ESPN no matter what.

[monty57]

I didn't see the bit you're talking about, but from your post, I think I agree with Nate. Kirkjen has to know that Melvin publicly stated that he wasn't moving Gamel or Escobar, and if you look at most of the trades made, they included lots of young pitchers going to the selling team. The Brewers don't have that. I'd agree with him that teh Brewers can't keep giving up prospects like they did for CC, but you are correct that he was wrong if he said the farm's depleted.

 

I also agree with you that if Mark A thought a trade would put us over the edge he would have ponied up the cash to do it, and that one pitcher would not make all the difference, so it was better to do nothing than to give up our future for something that wouldn't even get us to the playoffs this season.

[dadofandrew]

They were lacking the second tier talent, especially pitchers. The White Sox traded 4 pitchers for Peavy, and every single one is a better than any in the system.

 

The kids in the minors are probably still middle of the pack, but that lack of AA/AAA arms is very costly when teams want big league ready pitchers. Unless you have Brewers tinted glasses, it's easy to see.

[Oldcity]

Anyway... I've heard him say repeatedly that the Brewers don't have the finances to make a big deal at the deadline, which was just simply wrong. I don't see how he can report something like that more than once without being corrected by someone.

[JoeHova]

Anyway... I've heard him say repeatedly that the Brewers don't have the finances to make a big deal at the deadline, which was just simply wrong. I don't see how he can report something like that more than once without being corrected by someone.

 

How do we know he was wrong? The Brewers are at about the same payroll they had last year, perhaps that is their limit. If, for example, the word around the league was that the Brewers needed a team to take a Hall or a Looper in order to offset cash, I think it's fine to infer from that they are at their payroll limit.

[JJHardy7]

Mark A. is a genius and the team's attendance is good. I believe we probably have the finances to make some kind of trade. Lastly, he said we did not have the talent to make a trade! WHAT? Hello Mat Gamel, Alcides Escobar, Brett Lawrie, etc... That may have been the dumbest thing a MLB analyst could say.

So you call a guy an idiot because we 'probably' have the finances? I guess I don't get that...I also don't get why a national analyst would just make that up. Do you really expect attendance to keep growing? I'd imagine it's a reality check that attendance will be going down next year if we miss the playoffs and one guy might not be the answer.

In regard to the talent, we didn't have it. Melvin has stated that the Brewers didn't have the pitching depth that teams were looking for. That's 100% true and it's a huge reason why a deal wasn't made. We don't have many if any pitchers at AA or AAA that could be a centerpiece of a trade for a guy like Lee. Teams were wanting young pitching prospects in return.

[cnycerveceros]

I have to agree with Kurkjian here. The Brewers were in no position to be dealing this season and one of the ways you get rich like Mark A. is knowing when to hold 'em. (Not quite folded yet, I'm hopefull!).

 

On Kurkjian - he's one of the few bright spots at ESPN. If you get a chance, read his recent book, _Is This a Great Game or What?_

[YoungGeezy]

Jeffress was are only pitcher who would have opened doors for us but he got suspended. We really just don't have the pitching depth in the system. Yes we have raw potential in Rookie ball and in A ball teams aren't going to usually make an rookie ball or low A pitcher a centerpiece of a trade (Knapp in the Lee trade is kind of raw but he has Jeffress like upside) Next year it may be a different story if the Brewers actually promote pitchers to higher levels when they pitch well. Not a knock on them but most teams would like a pitcher who has pitched admirely in AA before they give up a top player in a trade. So you know if Peralta or Scarpetta made it to AA by June and pitch real well next year that may open more doors.

 

We just didn't have the players to make a deal, I'm not going to blame Doug for that and Kurkjian was right.

[jeffy]

...most teams would like a pitcher who has pitched admirely in AA before they give up a top player in a trade. So you know if Peralta or Scarpetta made it to AA by June and pitch real well next year that may open more doors.

 

But if the Brewers actually have some pitiching prospects, would it make sense to give them away for a rental, considering how much trouble they seem to have in this area? Meanwhile they seem to be good at developing sluggers, so what they should probably do is trade that sort of player for pitching.

 

Fielder gets $10 million next year, what'll he be due in 2011 if he goes to arbitration or agrees to a contract? If they can not afford to keep him, then he can and should be moved for pitching sometime in the next couple of years.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think there is a difference between having talent in general and having a talent in a specific area. If he was going to say the Brewers didn't have what people wanted he should have said that. If he meant they have no talent at all then he was wrong. He is the guy on TV who, presumably, planned what he was going to say ahead of time. As a professional in his field he should know how to clearly state what he means in his commnets. Not clarifying his comment to portray what he meant to say is amateurish at best.

[Oldcity]

At the beginning of the season we heard from Mark A and Doug that the Brewers would have money to add a piece or two at the deadline. And we know they were looking into guys like Halladay and Lee. What more do you need to know?

[yogallardo43]

I was wondering who you guys thought had the worst deadline. I am hearing far too often that the Brewers had a horrible deadline in the media. I just wrote a blog post that depicted who I thought made poor decisions in July. Thanks. The link is below. http://brewcrewdaily.blogspot.com/

[patrickgpe]

it depends on your definition of "losers". By loosing major league talent, its the pirates. If you mean giving up too much to get what you got, i am going with the white sox. If you mean not doing enough to help your club, the brewers would be up there.

[yogallardo43]

Well I was thinking more along the lines of bettering your ball club. I am not going to call the Phillies "losers" for acquiring Cliff Lee, although they gave up a lot of young talent. A "loser" of that level would be giving up Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. I'm talking about trades that didn't make sense, either financially or talent wise.

[thebruce44]

I don't really get what the Reds were trying to do, so they would get my vote.

[joepepsi]

I agree yo and bruce, the Reds' strategy at the dealine was elusive to me. Good analysis of the losers on your blog, yo.

 

With Volquez going under the knife and projected to miss all of 2010, the Reds should have chucked this season and unloaded all the veterans they could. It's silly Harang and Arroyo are still on the team, assuming there were offers for these guys.

[Invader3K]

I agree yo and bruce, the Reds' strategy at the dealine was elusive to me. Good analysis of the losers on your blog, yo.

 

With Volquez going under the knife and projected to miss all of 2010, the Reds should have chucked this season and unloaded all the veterans they could. It's silly Harang and Arroyo are still on the team, assuming there were offers for these guys.

I agree. I don't get why they acquired Rolen either. Maybe they're figuring they can get better value for some of their pitching in the off-season. Realistically, they should look at 2010 as a rebuilding year. They should probably start that process by firing Dusty Baker, too.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

When looking at your blog yo, you mentioned two teams that won as the Pirates and Indians, the ones that traded for prospects. I agree they did what they had to do. I do think there were winners among those that received talent as well. The Cards with Holliday and the Phils with Lee really improved their teams. There should be two categories...the best dumpers and and the best buyers.

 

I would agree that the Reds acquiring Rolen was a head scratcher. Reminds me of the Astros acquiring Randy Wolf last year. The Reds should be sellers, but Jocketty and Baker might be too old for that.

[yogallardo43]

When looking at your blog yo, you mentioned two teams that won as the Pirates and Indians, the ones that traded for prospects. I agree they did what they had to do. I do think there were winners among those that received talent as well. The Cards with Holliday and the Phils with Lee really improved their teams. There should be two categories...the best dumpers and and the best buyers.

 

I would agree that the Reds acquiring Rolen was a head scratcher. Reminds me of the Astros acquiring Randy Wolf last year. The Reds should be sellers, but Jocketty and Baker might be too old for that.

 

I completely agree that both the Cardinals and Phils made their teams better. The reason that the Cardinals were not listed was that I thought that they gave up too much in order to get Holliday. Holliday is a rent-a-player and will probably not be with the Cards next season (especially with how much he has risen his stock since the trade). For them to part will Brett Wallace, along with others, seems foolish to me. I was going to name the Phillies as a winner at the deadline. In my opinion, they put themselves as the favorite to repeat as WS champions. The only reason that they didn't make my top two was I honestly think the Pirates and Indians did a better job of helping the future of their franchise. The Phillies could have made the list for sure, but I only stopped at two teams. I cannot believe how much the Pirates have been blasted for the moves that they made. I don't think Neal Huntington was out of line by cited how bad this franchise has been in recent seasons before he got there. They needed to change something, and it is nice to see that they have a competent GM finally.

[Invader3K]

I would say the Pirates were winners for the most part, aside from giving up Nyjer Morgan. I think it was obvious their current crop, while solid, was not a strong enough core to build a competitive team around.