August 31

[davego]

Is it safe to assume (given the 'Crew's current state) DM will use August to unload his vets that are going to be free agents? Kendall, Hoffman and Looper for example?

[wibadgers23]

Excuse my ignorance, but how do trades work now that the deadline has passed? I've never understood that. I imagine if we are out of the race by the end of August that Doug might consider selling some of the vets.

[jwill535]

Pretty much 90% of all rosters are put on waivers. Unlike in years past where teams would claim guys just to block them from being traded to other teams, there is a gentlemens agreement between GMs not to do this anymore. Since this has happened the trading deadline is meaningless in regards to all players outside of the top 10%(Fielder, Halladay etc).

[pogokat]

more than anything, i hope they trade counsell and bring up gamel to play him every single day from about august 15-the end of the season...

[jwill535]

There is zero upside to trading Counsel, especially for what he is getting paid and the probable return you would get for him.

[endaround]

Theer is zero downside for trading Counsell. MI is one area the Brewers have loads of depth and Counsell will likely be willing to resign with Milwaukee anyway.

[jwill535]

You are only going to get a A baller at best for him, he only makes 1 mil this year and is probably the 3rd best offensive player this year.

[BrewerProspectus]

Pretty much 90% of all rosters are put on waivers. Unlike in years past where teams would claim guys just to block them from being traded to other teams, there is a gentlemens agreement between GMs not to do this anymore. Since this has happened the trading deadline is meaningless in regards to all players outside of the top 10%(Fielder, Halladay etc).

 

Not only that, but in this economy, teams will be less likely to claim players w/ large contracts b/c the risk of being saddled w/ that contract is too high.

 

 

 

in fact, this could be an opportunity to get rid of Suppan; teams like LAD or SF may need an experienced SP for the stretch run (both teams are having issues here w/ Billingsley faltering and Randy needing surgery; both teams play in pitcher friendly ballparks in the NL) and may be willing to take on Soup's final year. Replacing those payroll dollars next year could be very significant for this team.

[pogokat]

"You are only going to get a A baller at best for him, he only makes 1 mil this year and is probably the 3rd best offensive player this year. "

 

The upside is he gets out of the way for someone who is a part of our future...

 

Craig Counsell playing out of his mind is about the same as the "Terrible" version of Gamel we saw...

[jwill535]

My point is that you can still bring up Gamel and play him if you want. Having Counsel here doesnt stop you from doing that, and in reality makes this team stronger.

[logan82]

You are only going to get a A baller at best for him, he only makes 1 mil this year and is probably the 3rd best offensive player this year.

If we are out of it keeping Counsell does not help at all. Flipping him for a month and a half for anybody is a plus especially since he is likely to just come back to us anyway. Just go to CC and say "We are going to try to get you on a winner and hope you come back after the season. We really like you, but we are gong nowhere this year."

[jwill535]

If we are out of it keeping Counsell does not help at all. Flipping him for a month and a half for anybody is a plus especially since he is likely to just come back to us anyway. Just go to CC and say "We are going to try to get you on a winner and hope you come back after the season. We really like you, but we are gong nowhere this year."

Thats fine, but to say that you need to trade him so Gamel can play doesnt make sense.

[pogokat]

Ken Macha has not proven to me that he can have counsell on a team with gamel and not play counsell

[jwill535]

Gamel hasnt done anything to show that he deserves that playing time. Combine him looking lost at the plate, and Counsel being on fire you have no excuse to play Gamel. Figuring out your hitting is done in the minors, not in the majors on a contending team. With that said, now that its apparent that this team isnt contending, Gamel should be up here to get the experience for next year.

[MNBrew]

The Brewers, as crappy as they've played all July, are still only 4 games out. They're not out of it.

 

In a vacuum, I see the logic of the question. Better starting pitching is the whole key to this team improving. If that happens, they can be serious contenders in the NL Central. Besides, each of the guys named in the initial post is needed for important reasons so this year doesn't amount to a complete collapse:

 

- Ideally, I'd love to see Hoffman back on this team next year. The last thing we need is to start blowing the limited number of 9th inning leads we actually do end up with lately.

- Trade Looper? He's the type of average-ish pitcher we were just trying to acquire, not give up. This team needs more pitching, not less. Cripes, I don't want Claudio Vargas in the rotation unless it's for Suppan!

- Kendall's not paid too much, and if you've paid any attention at all to how the Brewers feel about him, you know he's not going anywhere. We just have to continue to accept that his value to the team is in everything BUT his offense.

[Shawn Sabatke]

I wouldn't say he looked "lost" at the plate. In fact, for a young hitter looking to make an impression (i assume), Gamel put together a high number of quality at-bats. Certainly more than the "seasoned veteran" that is Corey Hart. I don't have the numbers on hand, but I would think he is in the high 3's, if not low 4's, as far as average pitches seen per at-bat.

[davego]

I think my greater point here is if the white flag goes up, how many of these vets who are soon to be FA does DM unload? Could be none if sort-of-hanging-on is important, or could be lots of them and get back whatever you can (and save a few coins). Since most of those guys, like CC or Hoffman, are FA...they certainly could be signed up again for 2010. The player goes to a contender, 'Crew gets some A or AA-ball fringy player and a few bucks are saved.

 

Just throwing this out there.

[logan82]

I would say only CC makes much sense. I don't think he will have good enough numbers to be a type A or B free agent so we wouldn't lose comp picks. Hoffman and Cameron probably at the very least bring back comp picks if we can't resign them.

[TooLiveBrew]

Even ignoring the well-discussed difference in Gamel's production as a starter at 3B, his MLB line is not really discouraging at all to me. It's really roughly what should be expected from a prospect making the adjustment to MLB pitching.

 

Given (admitted hindsight) the way this season appears to be turning out, I think I would argue that Macha's refusal to give Gamel the 3B job fulltime is my least favorite development... either that or Parra's early season WOAHs.

 

I like logan's rationale -- Counsell isn't going to net any comp. pick(s), and furthermore could conceivably really fade the rest of the way (age, injury, career norms).

[twobrewers]

Hoffman and Cameron probably at the very least bring back comp picks if we can't resign them.

I doubt either of them will return a draft pick.

 

Hoffman will likely be a type "A" free agent. No team is going to give up their first (or even second) round pick to sign him for one year. I would imagine that the Brewer's and Hoffman have a gentleman's agreement that the Brewers will not offer him arbitration so that Hoffman can sign anywhere unimpeded.

 

Cameron made $10M in 2009. Offering him arbitration he will probably make about the same amount - I doubt the Brewers are willing to pay Cameron $10M again next year. I think Cameron would accept in a heartbeat since he isnt' going to get a long-term deal from anyone else.

[TooLiveBrew]

I, for one, would love to see Cameron back at $10M. He would probably still outplay that value.

[logan82]

You are right that Hoffman will probably be an A.

 

Cameron appears to be firmly entrenched as a B right now. I also would love to see Cameron back next year. Gerut may be ok in CF for a year. I would prefer Cameron.

[benji]

The only problem is that the brewers need all of those $10 million for pitcher/pitchers next year if they are serious about contending. My guess is that Gerut plays center next year until Cain is ready.

[dadofandrew]

Some combo platter of Gerut with a RH platoon guy (like Kapler) makes a lot of sense. Who knows, maybe they'll get a young CF who's blocked along with a young arm for Hardy.

[Hate those Rodents]

How bad do you guys think Hart would be at center? I don't have an understanding for outfield defense as well as some of you. It'd be nice if he could handle it though. We could easily find a nice bat for his corner outfield spot.