He's Baaaack! Vargas to MIL for Vinny Rottino

[danzig6767]

Trwi, what exactly do you want to sell? They will probably try to re-sign Hoffman, Cameron and Counsell for next year. Lopez maybe as well. What was there to sell?

I think all of the players that you named. Pretty much everyone except for Gallardo and Braun. You don't have to trade them, but at least put them on the market. If you didn't like the offer, don't trade them, but I have a hard time believing they even considered that option due to this "win now" trade.

I'm glad the team didn't trade any valuable prospects for anyone not named Halladay and Lee. That said, i can understand why the owner didn't want to sell off guys like Hoffman and Cameron. He has a lot of tickets sold and doesn't want to have the impression of giving up right now and he doesn't want the team potentially becoming really bad for the rest of the season if we went on a fire sale. Given all of that, unless i got a really top notch prospect for any of those three, i wouldn't have pawned them off either. No harm in just riding out the season and hoping for the best.

[ELCABALLO45]

Halladay? No way we could trade for him. He would of cost us the entire farm to get him. Escobar/Parra +. No thank you.

 

Peavy? He would not of helped us this year most likley.

 

Lee? Price was way to high for him here. No way I wanted to trade a top prospect for Lee. IMO.

 

I didn't wanna trade Escobar or Hardy for Washburn either. You have to give up alot of talent to aquire a pitcher that would not be a sure thing to get us into the playoffs.

[Oldcity]

It's appears the Brewers didn't have the high impact, close to MLB ready pitching prospects it would have taken to get Lee or Halladay. There wasn't much out there that would have been worth Escobar or Gamel that was an actual possibility.

[ELCABALLO45]

Agreed 100 percent Stevo.

 

I just don't think if you can keep trading top prospects every trade deadline.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

OMG, it just struck me. I'm going to the Dodgers/Brewers game next week decked out in my Jerry Augustine jersey...#46. I almost forgot that's Vargas' number. The irony of this trade is really hitting home now!

[PeaveyFury]

Give up Gamel or Escobar if that is what it was going to take to get a LEGITIMATE 1 or 2 starter.

 

By some reports, it would have taken both, plus more.

[Brewcrewin07]

Give up Gamel or Escobar if that is what it was going to take to get a LEGITIMATE 1 or 2 starter.

 

By some reports, it would have taken both, plus more.

Well depending on who they would've gotten back(Lee, Peavey or Halladay who are all signed through next year). I would have done it. Unless DM is willing to go out into FA next year and get a legitimate top of the rotation starter or two, this team will be no better next year.

[RightFieldCoder]

DM gives up Escobar and/or Gamel to get a rental legitimate 1 or 2 starter for this year. And we get slaughtered in the playoffs again. We go into 2010 with horrible pitching again. And everyone complains about why DM doesn't have pitching in the system.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

[insert Irrational cut at Doug Melvin here]

 

I am glad that Melvin didn't make any moves because I trust in him based on his track record and assume that if there were no good deals out there where we wouldn't have to overpay greatly for a player that probably wouldn't get us to the playoffs anyways. As far as selling, I'm glad we didn't do that either because I'd still like for this team to compete in 2010. We can make the trades we need to make in the offseason as most of our surplus is offensive value and the general rule is that hitters are more valuable and get a greater return in the offseason as opposed to right before the trading deadline.

[sauveb]

One thing that I think everyone is forgetting is that if the Brewers get on a roll, it is pretty easy to get players through waivers in August. It doesn't hurt to wait a week to see if it can be turned around. Plus, in August you don't have to give up as much.

[davego]

Robin 19 in with some logic...that kills some good ranting!

 

Unless it was a pitcher signed thru 2010, it would have made little sense to flip Gamel, et al. As Peavey points out...it would have taken more then our top 2 position players in AAA. Sometimes you can't chase the cards from a deck that simply are not there.

[JJHardy7]

Well, no I wouldn't want to trade Gamel or Escobar for Washburn or anything other than a stud pitcher that would be around next year as well (weren't there some of those available?). But it's just kind of amusing to me that the guy doing all the drafting for the Brewers the last however many years couldn't come up with a satisfying package for Washburn that DIDN'T include Gamel or Escobar? That's telling to me.

You need to clarify what you'd give up Gamel or Escobar for. Your previous post made it seem like you'd give them up for a Washburn type in a way. I really like both guys and if we were one guy away I'd be fine with it...I just think we're not one guy away. That's why it makes little sense to trade either one. The Brewers so far have just gotten screwed with the timing of Hardy having a bad year. He really needs to turn it on really, really quick so we can trade him in the off-season for a decent haul. I know there are some here that wouldn't trade JJ for Bucholz straight up...is that still true? I'd do that in a heartbeat and I think some here are putting a ton of value in JJ. I obviously like JJ, but it's not like we can trade him straight up for a young #1 or #2 MLB ready starter.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well depending on who they would've gotten back(Lee, Peavey or Halladay who are all signed through next year). I would have done it.

 

I am very glad Doug Melvin doesn't share your views.

 

 

Unless DM is willing to go out into FA next year and get a legitimate top of the rotation starter or two, this team will be no better next year.

 

Or he will trade one of Hardy/Escobar as a main piece to bring back young(ish), cost-controlled SP. Or Hart+prospects. But other than being able to offer MLB ready, young, affordable talent, in addition to strong hitting prospects, yeah -- his hands are totally tied.

 

 

 

Okay, maybe I am the only one that is optimistic, but......there are 60 games to go and we are only 4 games out. I know that the Crew hasn't been playing that wonderful lately, but why is everyone ready to throw in the towel? Yeah, the Cardinals and the Cubs are probably better on paper, but we are only 4 games out! It's not like we are 7+ games out of first.

Yeah, it's hard for me to give up just yet as well. The Cubs have really been hurt by injuries this season, and with plenty of head-to-head games left v. STL & CHN, this race is far from actually being over. Another thing that's being left out of discussion is that everyone should know the trading deadline won't adversely affect any in-season deal Melvin would make, at least from the Brewers' perspective. Any offer from MIL at this point would likely be comprised of all prospects, since it seems pretty clear the MLB guys like Hart & Hardy won't move until the offseason.

[TheCrew07]

It's not that I had any great love for Rottino, and yea I guess the move was warranted given our lack of pitching depth, but Vargas literally sucks the will out of me to sit and watch a baseball game. It's rare that I last till the 5th inning when he's pitching. I'd rather DVR game and constantly jump ahead with the skip button on the remote and watch the whole game in 30 minutes than sit through his shenanigans on the mound. I've literally gone to the bathroom between his pitches in the past, he truly is the human rain delay.

 

Maybe he's changed, no idea, and honestly I had no desire to find out, I just despise the guy because of how slow he pitches.

 

From the baseball side... meh... whatever... from a personal standpoint I would have almost had anyone else acquired.

[logan82]

I think there were jokes about making sandwiches between his pitches. I wish I remembered what the thread was because it was pretty funny.

[monty57]

The way I see it, if the Brewers' offense picks up, they could make the playoffs without any big moves being made. If the offense doesn't pick up, they will not make the playoffs even with a big move being made. So, the only thing I didn't want to see was a big move that cost us a significant part of our future. I'm surprised by how many people seem to forget how important our top prospects are to our team. I'm really glad that Melvin didn't trade Braun a few years ago, when they could have used help, or Fielder/Hardy when Sheets and Ohka got hurt a few years ago and they needed a pitcher. We'd be in really bad shape if we'd have traded this "player who's too fat to play first base and will wear out quickly" and our "all field, no bat shortstop coming off an injury" for a one-year rental of a starting pitcher. Why would it be a good idea now to trade our top prospects for a rental? I'm a Brewers fan now, and I'll still be a Brewers fan in the future. Picking up one pitcher won't do that much to help us get into the playoffs this year. Trading Gamel, Escobar and others will significantly hurt our chances of making the playoffs in the future. The risk isn't worth the reward.

I understand the desire to sell right now, and have even been a proponent of it, as we have some players with which we could probably put together a deal for young pitching (Hardy+ for Bucholz; Cameron+ for young Yankee pitcher) that could help us into the future. That said, I figured we'd probably go the route we seem to be going (standing pat with what we have). If the team gets it together, we could still make a run at the playoffs, especially if Bush and Suppan can get healthy quickly, and Parra keeps his head on straight. The team needs to keep a competitive team on the field for ticket sales, as many Brewers fans are finally coming back after being disenfranchised at the end of the Selig era. Selling off now could seriously hamper ticket sales next year. Finally, at the end of the season, we should get draft picks for Hoffman, Lopez and Cameron.

On topic for the thread, I don't see anything wrong with the move, although I, too understand why people are saying "anyone but Claudio." We need a major league pitcher right now, and we gave up virtually nothing to get one. Personally, I'm surprised Rottino wasn't let go after the draft to make room for all of the players. I think everyone on the board will agree that we will need to make a big push at landing a solid starter in the offseason, and I'm still in the camp that believes some package containing JJ Hardy will land us that pitcher.

[monty57]

Yeah, it's hard for me to give up just yet as well. The Cubs have really been hurt by injuries this season, and with plenty of head-to-head games left v. STL & CHN, this race is far from actually being over.

 

Good point, IIRC, our September schedule is loaded with games against the Cubs and Cards. If we can stay in it until then (when we hopefully will have our full staff back), we could make up a lot of games in the last month.

 

Edit: Of course, we'll have to be able to hold onto 7-1 leads agasint the one of the worst teams in baseball for that to make any difference (said as we gave up said lead against the Padres)

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I believe the 40 man roster is full. Any idea who will be dropped to clear a spot for Vargas? Corporan, Green, Wright, Swindle, Aguilar?

[Jay Zahn]

The way I see it, if the Brewers' offense picks up, they could make the playoffs without any big moves being made. If the offense doesn't pick up, they will not make the playoffs even with a big move being made.

Monty, the June ERA for the Brewers was 5.37. With tonight's result I think July will be around 5.6. The Brewers have posted losing records in both months. To then conclude that the productivity of the offense is what will determine the team's destiny makes no sense.

[logan82]

There were 39 guys on the 40-man roster. Vargas took the 40th spot.

[bklynbrewcrew]

The big question that has to be answered is whether or not it is possible for this team to get a real pitcher without surrendering Gamel/Escobar or both. I really wonder what kind of pitcher we will be able to get for JJ and or Corey. Hardy is one year away from free agency and Corey has become an average outfielder. I dont exactly see us getting a guy like Buchholz for either one of them and I dont see a guy like Bannister as good enough to make us contenders next season.

 

Melvin most likely missed his chance to get anything really valuable for Hardy or Hart when they had real trade value and it might end up costing us Gamel because Melvin is going to become desperate at some point to acquire the pitching we need.

[jazzytrav]

Rottino was not going to break through the C spot with all the depth in the organization and thought they would help him go to a place he might make it.

So you think Vinny Rottino might break through and take Russell Martin's job?

The way Martin has been playing this year, who knows?

 

I really don't think that will happen...i'm just pissed at Martin for his involvement in my waste of a fantasy season.

[Baldkin]

Hopefully he starts a few games at Miller Park, the extra revenue generated from beer sales due to 5 hour long games might be enough for us to sign up some big time free agents this winter!

[tigerbrew]

I think it would wise for the Brewers to carry 13 pitchers like what LaRussa has been doing. It would be better to have an additional pitcher rather than Gerut.

[RightFieldCoder]

Didn't we blast Yost for carrying an extra pitcher?