He's Baaaack! Vargas to MIL for Vinny Rottino

[trwi7]

NDOG44, give me a realistic move they should have made then if you think it is so easy?

 

Not making a move would've been better.

[JJHardy7]

Yeah, but aren't there guys in the minors that are comparable to Vargas? Or better?

Why does it matter? I love the minors/prospects as much as anyone, but Vinny had no future in this organization. Would you care if just signed him to a minimum deal? I don't see how people are upset about this specific trade at all. We didn't give up much...if anything at all.

I can understand that this move doesn't make you think we're going for it or we're going to try and sell. I guess that is where the frustration comes...not from the specific move, but the general vibe it gives off. I understand that and I feel the same way. I just keep thinking that the Brewers internally are over valued the pitching going into this year and that was a pretty big mistake to make...Vargas doesn't fix that. I personally would've rather called up Jesus from AAA to be our savior (pun intended)...but honestly I'd rather have called him up, but either way it wouldn't make a huge impact.

[Hate those Rodents]

I personally would've rather called up Jesus from AAA to be our savior (pun intended)...but honestly I'd rather have called him up, but either way it wouldn't make a huge impact.

I think you meant called up Angel. As in Angel Salome, who would help the staff out with his bat, but I'm not sure enough to compensate with his glove.

[BrewCityUnit]

How would not making a move been better? So you think Vargas will actually hurt us? Rottino would never play for the Brewers any way so by making that comment you think Vargas will make us lose games?

[wibadgers23]

This trade is just an indication of how disappointing this season has been. We have played so poorly that it would have been tough for Doug to trade good prospects for rental players. Doug has said all season that he would have to be "motivated" to swing a major deal, but how can you be motivated when your team has stunk it up for the past two months?

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

i'm guessing winkelsas and mabeus weren't available this year ?

[Hate those Rodents]

I would have went with Ron Rightenour myself. My favorite replacement player that doubled as a Brewers starter ever!!!

[BrewCityUnit]

I think it is pretty funny that posters think this year has been so disappointing when we are actually .500 with 60 games to play considering all the injuries. What did people expect? Did one playoff appearance really spoil Brewer fans? If Weeks wouldn't have gotten hurt and our starting pitching would have held up a little better over the past month and a half maybe Doug would have been in a position to make a major move. To me it is pretty amazing that we are even at .500. Wonder how people are going to feel about things after we sweep the Padres and take 2 out of 3 from the Dodgers?

[JJHardy7]

I think you meant called up Angel. As in Angel Salome, who would help the staff out with his bat, but I'm not sure enough to compensate with his glove.

 

No...I meant Jesus. He's in Nashville.

[craigharmann]

This trade is just an indication of how disappointing this season has been. We have played so poorly that it would have been tough for Doug to trade good prospects for rental players. Doug has said all season that he would have to be "motivated" to swing a major deal, but how can you be motivated when your team has stunk it up for the past two months?

Thank you for putting into words my feelings. If we're going to go out and trade for a reliever, fine. But Vargas? That's my point. We have guys in the minors that are similar. If you're going to trade for a guy, let him be a chip to help put you over the top in a playoff run. Or a starting pitcher? But as you said, there are so many places to fill holes that it's pointless even to try. And that's the frustrating part. I am very strongly thinking about turning my rooting interest for the rest of the season toward the Rangers.

[Roscoe Chill]

A realistic move? Just take a look at all the players that have been dealt so far in the last month. Take your pick. How about Sherrill, Grabow, Washburn, etc. How about going all in on a Lee or Halladay deal. If it meant giving up Mat Gamel, so be it. Are they going to go in to next season with JJ Hardy at SS? If so, then include Escobar. If not, the Twins, Mariners, and Cardinals off the top of my head all traded for a SS.

 

There's plenty of "realistic" moves that could have been made that would have at least given it a try. Or if that was such a far fetched thing, then how about trading your pieces that won't be here next year for some arms? Any arms.

 

If you want specifics, I have none. No one on this message board does.

[trwi7]

How would not making a move been better? So you think Vargas will actually hurt us? Rottino would never play for the Brewers any way so by making that comment you think Vargas will make us lose games?

I think wasting however little time it took to put this deal together is bad. I think Vargas is bad. I think not either buying or selling is bad. This season has become a major disappointment to me.

[joepepsi]

I think wasting however little time it took to put this deal together is bad. I think Vargas is bad. I think not either buying or selling is bad. This season has become a major disappointment to me.

I doubt much time was wasted. Wasn't Vargas put on waivers or about to be to make room for Sherrill? Most likely Doug called up Ned, told him he'd offer a good organizational soldier for Vargas and the Dodgers said, sounds good. Part of this is Doug releasing Vinny as a favor because he no longer has a future with the Brewers.

 

Thinking this is supposed to be a "deadline" deal is silly. It's not. This neither guarantees the playoffs nor throws away the season.

[sheethead]

I think it is pretty funny that posters think this year has been so disappointing when we are actually .500 with 60 games to play considering all the injuries. What did people expect? Did one playoff appearance really spoil Brewer fans? If Weeks wouldn't have gotten hurt and our starting pitching would have held up a little better over the past month and a half maybe Doug would have been in a position to make a major move. To me it is pretty amazing that we are even at .500. Wonder how people are going to feel about things after we sweep the Padres and take 2 out of 3 from the Dodgers?

The Mets are 3 games under .500 and have suffered injuries many times of those the Brewers have suffered. It still doesn't take away from them having a disappointing season. It is not amazing to me the Brewers are at .500. To me the Brewers have three studs, a couple nice surprises (Counsell and Mcgehee), a few steadies (Hoffman, Coffey, Stetter, Cameron, Kendall?), and a boatload of underachieving disappointments (Hardy, Hart, Suppan, Looper, Parra, Gerut, Villanueva & Hall). When the majority of a team is a disappointment, I would say that overall the team is having a disappointing 2009. Just my opinion, but I never point to injuries or previous year results to curb my expectations. Iffa (injuries) coulda (pitched better) with Weeks, Bush, etc all sound like excuses in my book. Name another team out there that hasn't suffered a significant injury this year.

 

Just so I get this right, the optimism shown at the end sounds like a prognostication. Do you really want to predict the Brewers will go 5-1 in SD and LA? I am pretty sure that has never happened in Brewer history.

[MJLiverock]

I think it is pretty funny that posters think this year has been so disappointing when we are actually .500 with 60 games to play considering all the injuries. What did people expect? Did one playoff appearance really spoil Brewer fans? If Weeks wouldn't have gotten hurt and our starting pitching would have held up a little better over the past month and a half maybe Doug would have been in a position to make a major move. To me it is pretty amazing that we are even at .500. Wonder how people are going to feel about things after we sweep the Padres and take 2 out of 3 from the Dodgers?

Or how will the those clinging to the beleif that this team is in the playoff mix after they lose 2 out of three to each of the Padres and Dodgers feel? The pitching staff wasnt' good to begin with and I firmly believe the only people who thought it was good were looking through Brewer goggles. They had a good stretch in the beginning but it was just a minor stretch much like any team has, theirs just came in the beginning rather than buried in the middle. The staff is only going to look worse as the season drags on and the 5 inning starts continue to tire the pen and Gallardo hits the wall around 170 or so innings. Bush getting hurt didn't help but no team can expect to go with the same 5 guys in the rotation for a full year and count on a young pitcher like Gallardo to be a 200 inning ace. It wasn't believable in March and it still isn't believable to some in August.

I have no problem with Rottino for Vargas, they need Vargas just to play out the string and Rottino wasn't much to give up. I just don't want to see deals for more pitching of the Vargas/Looper/Soup/ mold. I would rather package up all the minor prospects Melvin likes to deal in small acquisitions for someone who can make a difference. It appears that will be in the offseason or else the team will be in the same boat next year, ok Offense, terrible pitching, and a .500 record or worse. I don't believe they can start next year with a rotation of Gallardo/Bush/Parra/Suppan/Burns?Villy?McClung? and hope to be a contender at the end of the season. Too many questions on everyone after Gallardo, not much upside on anyone after Parra, and still no depth for inevitable injuries. I hope that September at least lets someone from AAA get a shot at starting to see if they can fill a 5th rotation spot cheaply so Melvin doesn't have to spend $4 to$5 Million on a Looper type guy and can use that money toward affording a guy who is closer to a #2 type starter that can pitch 7+ innings once in a while.

 

 

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

We need some "I survived the trading deadline and all I got was Claudio Vargas & this shirt" t-shirts.

[Mr QL]

I'm not mad like some of you guys. I honestly didn't want them to get a Washburn or whoever and give up a Hardy or a Escobar because we need a lot more help than that to contend. I would of preferred a young guy from the minors who might be here next year.

 

I do find it amusing that Claudio "The Magic Man" Vargas is back. Now we need to get Doug Davis.

[brettac1]

This is just a whatever move. Hard to really get upset about it. They acquired a guy that at least has MLB ability, which is more than Burns, Smith, etc. have.

 

I want Mike Jones getting called up, though. This season could use a good story. Why not.

[sargennm]

Melvin says "We were involved in a big one that didn't happen" - per TH

 

 

I just talked on the phone with Brewers general manager Doug Melvin, who said he wasn't content to merely get journeyman right-hander Claudio Vargas today before the 3 p.m. trade deadline.

"We had a couple of things going that didn't materialize at the end," said Melvin. "We were involved in a big one that didn't happen."

Melvin confirmed he tried to get Seattle lefty Jarrod Washburn, who eventually was dealt to Detroit for a couple of minor league pitchers. In fact, Melvin said his overtures for starting pitchers always failed because he didn't have young pitching to send back -- another indictment of the Brewers' failure to develop pitching prospects.

"You look at most of these deals for pitchers and there were young pitchers in return," said Melvin. "We're thin in pitching in the system, so we didn't have pitching to give back. Our strength is in other players."

Because the Brewers had no pitching prospects to trade, Melvin said he was continually asked for either third baseman Mat Gamel or shortstop Alcides Escobar. He decided the price was too high to trade either player, especially for pitchers who could walk away after the season.

Melvin also took a run at Kansas City's Brian Bannister but couldn't meet the Royals' wishes, either. Bannister was not traded.

Melvin insisted he has not given up on this season, that he did try to get a pitcher who would help.

"We're not giving up on this season. We're hoping to play better baseball," he said. "We worked hard on it. Until you know what the negotiations were and what we were trying to do, those are just words."

Melvin said the plan for Vargas was to use him in relief, as he was in Los Angeles. Vargas was a starter for the Brewers in 2007 but missed much of this year with elbow tendinitis and is not stretched out.

I assume that means that right-hander Mike Burns, recalled from Nashville, will start Saturday in San Diego in place of injured Jeff Suppan.

[Roscoe Chill]

Well, no I wouldn't want to trade Gamel or Escobar for Washburn or anything other than a stud pitcher that would be around next year as well (weren't there some of those available?). But it's just kind of amusing to me that the guy doing all the drafting for the Brewers the last however many years couldn't come up with a satisfying package for Washburn that DIDN'T include Gamel or Escobar? That's telling to me.

 

EDIT: And yes, Melvin himself came out and said he wasn't satisfied. So why shouldn't we be not upset with the Vargas pickup, but the lack of direction in general. I don't see it getting a whole lot better next year.

[giffted1]

I have no problem with Rottino for Vargas, they need Vargas just to play out the string and Rottino wasn't much to give up. I just don't want to see deals for more pitching of the Vargas/Looper/Soup/ mold. I would rather package up all the minor prospects Melvin likes to deal in small acquisitions for someone who can make a difference.

 

It just doesn't work that way. A package of marginal prospects is not going to net us a difference maker. Teams want top prospects for good pitching and thankfully Doug wasn't willing to pay that price.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If only Vargas was even close to Looper/Soup mold.

 

I'd rather get a difference maker too, but unless they are willing to part with valuable parts it wasn't going to happen. Kudos to DM for not forcing a bad trade.

[RU Rah Rah]

FWIW, Vargas has pitched 11 innings of mop up this year. Five of his appearances were in blowouts: Dodger wins of 8-0, 11-2, and 12-3; and Dodger losses of 1-8 and 0-10.

[MJLiverock]

Oh I'm not saying a package of just 2nd and 3rd tier guys gets a difference maker. But those deals often include 2nd or 3rd tier guys in them and I'd rather he use them in those packages rather than dancing around the fringes and acquiring piles of scrap heap guys and 4th/5th starter types who if all goes welll turn out to be 4th/5th starter types. That seems to be his plan for a pitching staff, grab a bunch of guys cheap and hope a couple turn out to be servicable but the end result seems to be an army of low ceiling guys and a below average staff.

[Brewcrewin07]

DM is full of crap when he says: "We're not giving up on this season. We're hoping to play better baseball," he said. "We worked hard on it. Until you know what the negotiations were and what we were trying to do, those are just words."

 

You didn't work hard enough apparently because by your own admission you weren't willing to give up Escobar or Gamel. So yes Doug, you ARE giving up on the season. Way to give the current team a boost of confidence by getting them some help. And you will wonder why they completely go in the tank from this point forward. I would. If I had a GM that didn't care enough to improve our ball club, why should I be motivated to continue to play as hard as I can when it's probably not going to matter anyway??