Thanks Doug.......for nothing.

[Brewcrewin07]

One day before the trade deadline and the crickets are chirping. You have got be kidding me that he is going to trot Mike freaking Burns and Carlos out there again?? That is absolutely pathetic. Your team sits a mere 4 1/2 games out with 60 to play and you are going to stand pat?? Brilliant GMing Doug. You need two Pitchers...GO GET THEM. No one says they have to be Roy Halladay(although that would be nice), but there has to be someone out there better then Mike Burns and Carlos. Those two don't even give your team a chance to win. What about the almost 3 million fans that will walk through the turnstiles again this year expecting to see you put together the BEST possible team you can?? What are you going to tell them about your inactivity??

 

Your answer will undoubtedly be "it appears we weren't a match for anyone". BS....The casual fan might buy that, but the die hard knows better. The smart Brewer fan knows that you are a match, you just refuse to give the pieces that match. Congrats Doug, I'll bet you are looking for a new job next year because we know Mark wants to do something for the fans. Are you not listening to your boss Doug?? Last year you brought us CC. This year you have brought Felipe Lopez which was a terrific move, but where is the help for the pitching staff that YOU assembled?? Other teams make moves and trade top prospects and you sit in your office from 9am-midnight, doing what exactly?? Nothing. What a shame....The fans deserved better this year.

[RyDogg66]

This team is more than 4 1/2 games back. They need to pass 3 teams to make the playoffs. Being just 4 1/2 games back is a big deal itself if you are chasing 1 team, but when you need to be better than 3 teams that makes things much more challenging. I suppose we could trade Gamel or Escobar for Jon Garland and Doug Davis, but the reality is with the injuries to Weeks, Bush, Suppan and Parra and Looper being so disappointing even two pitchers like Garland and Davis dont make us all of the sudden better than the Cards and Cubs.

 

I dont agree with your gripe. This team will compete next year and Doug knows that.

[thablingster]

Melvin taking heat for the poor pitching staff he assembled is valid, but combining the way we've been playing and the fact in this market for pitching it seems like trying to trade for someone who would even be league average or a little worse would be like trying to get blood from a rock, it really isn't a good fit right now. I'd rather not trade someone who can be valuable to this team in the future for a 4.75-5.00 ERA pitcher who honestly will be no better than what a healthy Dave Bush or even Suppan could potentially give us.

 

Trust me, I'd love to see them make a trade and I honestly hope they do, but with Peavy and Bedard down, Lee traded, and the Blue Jays essentially asking for the entire Nashville Sounds roster plus Prince Fielder for Halladay, the options are truly limited.

 

I would not be surprised to see Doug make a small move, maybe a reliever or a junkballer for a little bit of nothing, but I think he'll stand pat for the most part until maybe Bedard comes off the DL or a few more teams dreaming hit the August skids and at that point maybe he'll think about making an August deal if we're playing better.

[Hate those Rodents]

I actually agree with the title of your thread. However, my agreement has no sarcasm in it. He should not have done anything this year. Even for Correija (sp.) from SD, I think you'd all be shocked of the cost. We were not getting a good starting pitcher anywhere near at a fair value. Doug left us short in that area this year and he knows it. I highly doubt it happens again and will be remedied in the off-season at a fair price.

[Brewcrewin07]

This team is more than 4 1/2 games back. They need to pass 3 teams to make the playoffs. Being just 4 1/2 games back is a big deal itself if you are chasing 1 team, but when you need to be better than 3 teams that makes things much more challenging. I suppose we could trade Gamel or Escobar for Jon Garland and Doug Davis, but the reality is with the injuries to Weeks, Bush, Suppan and Parra and Looper being so disappointing even two pitchers like Garland and Davis dont make us all of the sudden better than the Cards and Cubs.

 

I dont agree with your gripe. This team will compete next year and Doug knows that.

Ok Rydogg let me ask this question....for as badly as they played in July, who is to say they couldn't absolutely get on a tear in August?? It's baseball, strange things happen all the time. Look, trotting Mike Burns and Carlos Villanueva out there to make starts when you are still in a pennant race is flat out embarassing. He couldn't have brought in Ian Snell, or someone similar for very little to replace this hodge podge?? It makes me think he just gave up and didn't even legitimately try. That is my problem with it. If he really wanted to find pitching he could have, and there are plenty of guys that could be acquired for a not so steep price that are far better then Burns or Carlos. The fans deserve better then to have to sit through starts by those two clowns repeatedly when everyone knows better pitchers could have been acquired.

[logan82]

Why should we act like the Astros do almost every year and trade off minor leaguers on the off hand chance our team will play well in August? It makes little sense to trade for anybody unless they will help us next year as well. Coupled with the fact that we would probably have to overpay for pitching right now and I think it is better to wait to trade until the offseason.

[BrewCrewForever]

I'm fine with keeping our guys and going with what we got. Even a guy like Halladay would not be enough. Keep our guys, keep plugging away and still have a team together that compete for years. Make some moves in the offseason and get ready for a great 2010. And who knows, 2009 could still be good to. Just need to get hot and get some breaks. In Doug I trust.

[Hate those Rodents]

I could be talked into a Paul Byrd/Odalis Perez type signing for cheap, but that's about it. I am very thankful that Doug did not mortgage the future this year. We might have two top of the rotation (2/3 types) next year at this time because Doug didn't panic this trade deadline.

[thablingster]

Just for fun I looked at the teams who most would agree are completely out of the playoff race to evaluate their pitching: Toronto, Baltimore, Kansas City, Cleveland, Oakland, Washington, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Arizona, and San Diego.

 

You say 10 teams, there has to be someone there, right? Well, Toronto is asking the earth, moon, and a couple of constellations for Halladay. Baltimore doesn't have much worth wanting on the pitching side, and if they do it is young guys they won't part with. KC would make an okay partner, but they're in the same boat. Cleveland sold their guy already. Oakland is in the same situation as Baltimore. We just saw Washington's staff, it isn't pretty. Pittsburgh sold everything but the racing pierogi. Cincinnati has some guys, but I'm sure they'll ask a lot. We know Arizona is asking too much for Davis, and Peavy is on the shelf for San Diego.

 

I honestly don't see much there. When mid-August comes and some of the teams clinging to their hopes (Seattle, Atlanta, etc.) give up hope, if we're still in it that is probably the best time to make a move.

[SeriesFinale]

I'm incredibly depressed by the thought of another Mike Burns start, much less two more months of them, but I can accept that what was out there just wasn't worth the long-term cost to the Brewers.

 

"You need two Pitchers...GO GET THEM. " Jeez. I wish everything in life was as simple as you must believe this is. Do you think the guy is twiddling his thumbs?

[Brewcrewin07]

I'm incredibly depressed by the thought of another Mike Burns start, much less two more months of them, but I can accept that what was out there just wasn't worth the long-term cost to the Brewers.

 

"You need two Pitchers...GO GET THEM. " Jeez. I wish everything in life was as simple as you must believe this is. Do you think the guy is twiddling his thumbs?

Yes, frankly I do think he was twiddling his thumbs. Other teams have filled their needs. Why can't the Brewers fill at least one of theirs?? You honestly don't think he could find someone in a trade better then Mike Burns or Carlos, without having to sacrifice more then a AA guy or two?? I'm not buying it. I will bet dimes to dollars he could have....He just wouldn't pull the trigger for whatever reason. He told Macha on more then one occasion that he was "trying to make the team better". He lied to his Manager. Cuz if he really was he would have someone right now. What happened to the "we'll be aggressive but smart" mentality?? Being aggressive doing nothing??

[PeaveyFury]

Why can't the Brewers fill at least one of theirs??

 

Felipe Lopez has been a heck of a leadoff hitter for us so far.

[SeriesFinale]

What happened to the "we'll be aggressive but smart" mentality?? Being aggressive doing nothing??

That was the "being smart" part.

 

We have no idea what kind of offers or counter-offers were made, but given the available pitching we're aware of, I shudder to think what kind of pitching we'd get for just a standard-issue "AA guy or two." Quality SP doesn't grow on trees, to use a cliche. They have value, which is why there have been sizable deals involving them (I'm always surprised when people here think JJ can fetch a young #2, but that's another argument I suppose). As far as our top-notch AA guys, for better or for worse, we're not in a position to throw them away on the likes of Kevin Correia.

 

If the entire team, not just the SP, had done better the first 2/3 of the season, maybe they'd be a little more devil-may-care. But we'll be 4 games back at best by the end of the night, and the two in front of us (not to mention the one alongside us) have been heating up and have guys coming back while we have key guys going down. It pays in the long run to be prudent, and this is a team that can't afford not to look into the long-term.

[derflotr]

You're unwilling to accept the simple fact that right now everyone wants to strengthen their rotation right now and the Brewers are maybe the team with the most dire need. Every team in the league knows this. You shouldn't buy when the price and demand is at its highest. This is a case of horrendous timing in many different ways. Doug Melvin is absolutely stuck here, and that's not to say that it isn't his fault - it's just saying that he's in a no-win situation. I'm still holding out hope for a Bannister or Guthrie, but starting pitching's value is at an absolute high and a small to mid-market team cannot continually get it this time of year. Their prices are probably way too high as well.

 

The injuries to Dave Bush (don't forget Chris Capuano, who was good in comparison to what we've got now) and the inconsistency of Manny Parra, a guy who the Brewers had a lot of faith in coming into the season has hurt the Brewers to a point where they're in serious trouble. They need to get Bush (and Suppan) back and hope other parts of the team pick up the slack.

 

If you really think that Doug Melvin could've had a serviceable SP for "a couple AA guys" and didn't do it "for whatever reason" no one's going to take you seriously.

[crossface21]

"We'll be aggressive, but smart." I'd say at this point, DM is being smart. I would have loved for them to make a move as well, but the asking price to get a pitcher to improve a team that is only at .500 because of an incredible 26 game stretch, is too high. The fact is, we have 5-6 starters that have greatly underachieved this year and that can't be made up in a trade. Disappointing, but it happens. I think DM realizes that he would need to give up too much of the future to get the pieces the Brewers need to actually make it to the World Series. I know anything can happen in baseball, but chances are even if the Brewers somehow made the playoffs, the Phillies will probably beat up on anyone in the NL. I don't want the Brewers to just make the playoffs, I want them to do something once they get there. This is not the year it's going to happen, based on what we've seen so far. I hope I'm dead wrong.

[Irish Brewer]

Having to trot out Mike Burns and CV for more starts is rather depressing. Its tough enough watching Manny struggle with his command and Looper get shelled, but then adding those two on top of it just stinks. Thank God for Yo. It should be pretty evident to Doug that he left this team way short on pitching, both in the starting rotation and in the bullpen. And to be honest, after all the love he has gotten in the past, he deserves a little chiding for the pitching staff he assembled this year. That said, I trust he will be very proactive in addressing these needs in the off-season.

[bill hAll Star]

The reason that Escobar and Gamel are so prized is not that they may be that good, but their minor league deal price tag.

 

For better or worse, the reason we have Cameron, Kendall, Hoffman, and other expensive vets is because guys like Braun, Hardy, Fielder were making peanuts.

 

Personally, even Roy Halladay in our rotation doesn't make us better than the Cubs or the Cards. So you're willing to sacrifice not 1, but probably 2 productive players for 6 years for a 2 month rental that isn't going to take us anywhere?

 

For instance, if we deal Escobar, Hardy is probably gone after next season. Here is how we can fill the SS hole:

1. Re-sign Hardy for 6+ million per year. Even though he has struggled this year he is going to play better next year and has had some great seasons. I could see 7-8 per year.

2. Sign a similar vet.

3. Sign a cheap vet with cost-cutting for other holes in mind.

4. Use a different SS prospect who is in all likelihood, lesser of a player than Escobar

 

Options 1 and 2 would give you similar talent, depending on who you ask, to Escobar. Maybe better, maybe worse. Options 3 and 4would probably be a downgrade.

 

However, options 1 and 2 would plug a hole with a large sum of money, so now we're relying a Swindle in the pen instead of spending 7 million/year on Ryan Madsen (just picking a random setup man).

 

Now think of these situations all over the field. If we want to fill RF in the future with someone Hart-esque or better that will come with a price tag, Cain is going to have to man CF. That is why these prospects are so valuable. You need to have at least 1/3, probably at least 1/2 of your roster filled out with cheapies so you can find vets or hold on to your own guys to fill out a competitive roster.

 

In my opinion, trading any prospects of value for pitching (and the price will be steep) would decimate our chances from 2011-2015. Yeah, you can say that is way too far out, but we have Braun, Yo (for a few years), and Prince either re-signed or the haul we get in return for him in those years. We aren't sniffing a World Series this year with even Roy Halladay and while it could project nicely for next year, it really would be an "all our eggs in one basket" type of year where we might come to a rude awakening the following year if nothing gets done.

[Brewcrewin07]

BTW, I'm sure this doesn't belong in this thread, but in interests of it getting seen and answered, this is where I put it. Does anyone have any idea why Escobar is not in the lineup for Nashville tonight?? Maybe he's coming up??

[Mr QL]

I think we need to start looking towards next year and the future because we need A LOT of help to win it this year. It just isn't happen. Hold on to your prospects.

[YoungGeezy]

I'm incredibly depressed by the thought of another Mike Burns start, much less two more months of them, but I can accept that what was out there just wasn't worth the long-term cost to the Brewers.

 

"You need two Pitchers...GO GET THEM. " Jeez. I wish everything in life was as simple as you must believe this is. Do you think the guy is twiddling his thumbs?

Yes, frankly I do think he was twiddling his thumbs. Other teams have filled their needs. Why can't the Brewers fill at least one of theirs?? You honestly don't think he could find someone in a trade better then Mike Burns or Carlos, without having to sacrifice more then a AA guy or two?? I'm not buying it. I will bet dimes to dollars he could have....He just wouldn't pull the trigger for whatever reason. He told Macha on more then one occasion that he was "trying to make the team better". He lied to his Manager. Cuz if he really was he would have someone right now. What happened to the "we'll be aggressive but smart" mentality?? Being aggressive doing nothing??

lol, wow.....okay. So what pitcher did you want us to get? How many prospects do you want to give up? I bet your an insider and everything and know exactly what these teams are asking for but why over pay and toss away Gamel, Escobar Lawrie Braddock or someone else for a okay rental who will be no better than Suppan or Looper? Why?!? Arizona wanted to add us to add a top tier prospect to the trade to get Doug Davis. Washbourn was going to cost us Escobar. Throw out one pitcher who would be a smart option, keeping in mind that your whole idea that the Brewers could low ball some team into giving us a above average pitcher for only the likes of a Gindl or Green. I don't think you understand the aggressive but smart mentality because what you want to do is just aggressive and not bright. I know it may be hard to understand and all but Milwaukee is a small-market team. We can't afford to be big buyers and throw way players like Escobar for a Davis or a Vasquez.

 

I for one would like to say thanks Doug.....for doing nothing! You did the right thing by using your aggressive but smart mentality and not giving into the outragious prices that teams are asking for medicore pitchers.

 

Also if you think Macha is going home at night crying because Doug lied to him and didn't make a dumb trade your extremely wrong. Macha knows baseball and how the game works. He has Bush coming back in a few weeks, Parra has started to get a little better and I think we have 20 games in august against last place teams. We can easily get hot with what we have, hell we got hot with what we had in the beginning of the season. Your such a downer. OMG we didn't make a trade now we are doomed, oh no....blah blah blah, whatever happened to believing in your team. Baseball is a sport of speed bumps, and you get hot and you get cold. We got cold last year at a much worst time and we rebounded. We didn't rebound because in mid September we went out and got another pitcher but we got hot again at the right time. Same with the Phillies, they didn't bowl over everyone all last season they got red hot at the end of September and stayed hot.

 

Remember we were in first place with our rotation until right before the All-Star break. We can stay pat and still contend we just need to get hot. If we don't well their is always next year.....a next year thanks to Melvin it will still consist of nice cheap options Escobar and Gamel. So thank you Doug for being smart!

[ClubLevel]

The casual fan might buy that, but the die hard knows better.

Uh, the majority of us on here, who most would define as "die hard" believe Doug is doing the right thing for the franchise. Perhaps you, my friend, are the casual fan who just starting paying attention 2 years ago.

[Brewcrewin07]

The casual fan might buy that, but the die hard knows better.

Uh, the majority of us on here, who most would define as "die hard" believe Doug is doing the right thing for the franchise. Perhaps you, my friend, are the casual fan who just starting paying attention 2 years ago.

Ummm wrong pal.....I have probably been "paying attention" longer then you have been alive. I guess you are one of the "fans" that was happy to have finally made the playoffs after 26 years last year, and if it's another 26 years now, oh well, at least they made it in '08 right?? The window is so small, you go for it when you have your BEST chances. Now are those chances while Prince is still here.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

Everyone knows the price for starting pitching is very high, so why mortgage the future for a mediocre SP?

[Brewcrewin07]

Everyone knows the price for starting pitching is very high, so why mortgage the future for a mediocre SP?

Define mediocre.....Do you consider Cliff Lee mediocre?? Roy Halladay?? Because those are the only guys you likely would have to "mortgage the future" for and ironically both are signed through next year as well. That seems like a good investment to me, no?? A guy like Washburn would be the ace on this staff right now, and I'm guessing being from Wisconsin he'd resign next year. Another good investment, even if it costs Escobar.

[dlk9s]

The window is so small, you go for it when you have your BEST chances.

And it does not look like this season is going to be the Brewers' best chance, hence the reason why Melvin isn't mortgaging the farm for an iffy chance at the playoffs.

 

Everybody has made all the points that need to be made, but I'll just ask you one thing: what pitchers do you think the Brewers could reasonably afford that would help the team do five games better than multiple teams currently ahead of them in the NL?

 

I'm still holding out hope that the team can make a run in August and find themselves within a couple games of Chicago and St. Louis come September when they get to play their divisional rivals, but I'm not counting on it. I'm in agreement with those who feel it's probably just best to stand pat, try hard this year to win, and retool in the off season.