Two More Busted for steriods in 2003....

[Thurston Fluff]

That's not a known fact. It's leaked information from a supposedly "sealed document" by anonymous sources.

 

It is a known fact that steroids help the player achieve results they could not have achieved without them. It is also known that Manny has performed about the same level all his career. It is also known he has used steroids since he tested positive for a drug that is only used by men when they need to get their body to produce testosterone naturally again. It is known that you need to do that after you took steroids. If he took steroids once and his production was the same as it always was then it is reasonable to believe he always took them. Far more reasonable to believe that than he is the only one who did not get any benefit from using them. To be perfectly frank I didn't need any source for me to realize he was always juicing. I would have been very surprised if he wasn't.

[Invader3K]

I just think this slow trickle of names (surprise ones or not) is just stupid, and unfair to the players involved. I'm not saying I feel sorry for them, but when they agreed to those tests it was supposed to be confidential.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Why? These "anonymous sources" know that what they're doing is BLATANTLY illegal, so what credibility do they have?

 

I am reluctant to start believing that government lawyers are making up facts, leaked illegally or not. Maybe someone with a conscious believes the public deserves to know who was cheating.

I'm absolutely certain that Manny and Papi did roids. I'm saying I'm not going to crucify them for it when they were told the results would be sealed.

 

The credibility of the people leaking the info is zero, in my opinion.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm absolutely certain that Manny and Papi did roids. I'm saying I'm not going to crucify them for it when they were told the results would be sealed.

 

Anyone who knows they are getting tested and still take them deserve no sympathy. It takes nads the size of Mt Rushmore to basically flip off the sport and do it simply because they can't legally do anything to you for it. They had no problem screwing with the sport, other players, fans and organizations so I have no problem with them getting equally screwed by the leaks.

[brewmann04]

this is a joke they need to just release the list of al the players instead of targeting a select few

[crewcrazy]

I'm personally shocked that a baseball player would put something into his body to perform better. It's not like it's been going on since salaries skyrocketed or anything.

 

For those wondering what Simmons was thinking, no column yet, but we have this tweet:

 

Of all the days for me to fly cross-country... I nominate this as my all-time worst finding news out on a blackberry moment.

[cruiserx43]

this is a joke they need to just release the list of al the players instead of targeting a select few

http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=380

[chadomac]

Why does it take 5 years for these test results to come out?

[TracyThom]

this is a joke they need to just release the list of al the players instead of targeting a select few

http://www.rotoinfo.com/read_article.php?articleId=380

This list is garbage. However, I love that Rotoinfo updates it whenever one of the names is confirmed.

[JimH5]

"When you tell me something I didn't already know, I'll be surprised," Canseco told ESPN. "And I'll tell you this, Major League Baseball is going to have a big, big problem on their hands when they find out they have a Hall of Famer who's used."

 

When asked to name who that Hall of Fame player is, Canseco refused to divulge who he believes it is.

 

Is the latest quote by Jose Canseco to say that there is a current Baseball Hall of Famer who used steroids? That's going to get the speculators going. . .

 

Rickey Henderson was just inducted.

Kirby Puckett? Cal Ripken? Mike Schmidt? Nolan Ryan? Paul Molitor? Dennis Eckersley?

 

Is there someone else who he could be referring to?

 

Canseco is a character for sure, but he's shown some credibility in this mess. . .

[DuWayne Steurer]

The only thing Canseco has to gain by outing his form colleagues is relevance. Big deal that he knows who used. He was one of the ringleaders, of course he knows.

 

All he's showing me is that he cares very little about the guys he used to battle with, and against, all for the sake of keeping his name current.

 

We already know that half the guys (exaggeration alert) from the 70's and 80's were doing blow, so why would knowing they did steroids tarnish their image further? I remember reading an article a long time ago where Tim Raines told a reporter he had to slide head first into second when he was stealing because he didn't want to bust the vial of coke that he had forgotten to take out of his back pocket.

[Fatter than Joey]

Is the latest quote by Jose Canseco to say that there is a current Baseball Hall of Famer who used steroids?

 

I think though there is an interesting nugget here that Canseco brings to light.

 

At some point, (if they already haven't) -- the HOF is going to unwittingly induct a steroid user. And then what happens? -- How do you "uninduct" an enshrinee? or How do you keep other users out?

 

I agree that Canseco is a twit -- but I think if you don't focus on him, and rather his message -- he is making some valid points.

[PeaveyFury]

he is making some valid points.

 

I tend to agree. He's correct that the HOF will almost certainly induct a steroid user that may or may not later on be revealed as such, then it creates some serious questions/issues about what you do if they are revealed after induction.

[RightFieldCoder]

The same thing they did after Fergeson admitted to using the spitball.

[JimH5]

He's correct that the HOF will almost certainly induct a steroid user that may or may not later on be revealed as such, then it creates some serious questions/issues about what you do if they are revealed after induction.

 

I think he's saying that they already have a guy in the Hall who was a steroid user. I'm trying to figure out who he is talking about. It's a finite list.

 

And that does create a huge issue, as lots of sportswriters are using steroids as a gate to keep McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro out. Plus the suspicions about Piazza, Bagwell, Pudge Rodriguez, and then A-Rod & Manny. . .

 

Or Canseco could just be blowing smoke. . .

[DuWayne Steurer]

he is making some valid points.

 

I tend to agree. He's correct that the HOF will almost certainly induct a steroid user that may or may not later on be revealed as such, then it creates some serious questions/issues about what you do if they are revealed after induction.

We knew before he was inducted that Gaylord Perry was a cheater. John McGraw was a cheater. Probably Phil Neikro.

 

Anyone who's ever been caught with a corked bat,........etc, etc, etc.

 

Baseballs desire to both continually drag it's skeletons out of the closet and then at the same time pretend they don't exist is a mystery to me.

[sheethead]

Or Canseco could just be blowing smoke. . .

 

This is possible. But he hasn't been proven wrong about any of his accusations to date. I believe he is talking about Henderson. I also agree Canseco is in a constant fight to keep himself relevant. He's the king rat, but rats usually spill beans of truth.

[TheCrew07]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that either Henderson or Ryan used roids. I remember Ryan's advil commercials, they were sort of a family joke... yes Nolan, Advil is the reason you can still pitch that way at your age...

 

No Molitor was roider, at least early... he was hurt way too much, the same reason I don't suspect Griffey was a user.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

I heard a clip of Canseco on a Philadelphia radio station last night in which he denied having any knowledge of Rickey using steroids.

 

It sounded like he was trying to clarify his comments to mean that the HoF will eventually (and possibly already has) have a member who has used steroids... a statistical likelihood, not something he currently has personal knowledge of.

[sheethead]

Thanks for the clarification Marques.

[Dragonbait]

The thing I wanna know most is how many per team are on the list.

[pretendastronaut]

Interesting little article with Bronson Arroryo. Seems more open than most people have been about it.

 

Arroyo, who pitched for the Red Sox from 2003 to 2005, said he took androstenedione, which was banned in 2004, as well as amphetamines, which were banned in 2006, according to the Herald report. He said he gave up taking andro, a steroid precursor, when a rumor spread through baseball that due to lax production standards, some of it was laced with steroids.

 

Mandatory testing for performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball began in 2004.

 

"Before 2004, none of us paid any attention to anything we took," he said, according to the Herald. "Now they don't want us to take anything unless it's approved. But back then, who knows what was in stuff? The FDA wasn't regulating stuff, not unless it was killing people or people were dying from it."

 

Arroyo said he started taking taking andro after 1998, after a season with the Pirates' Double-A affiliate. "Andro made me feel great, I felt like a monster. I felt like I could jump and hit my head on the basketball rim," he said, according to the report.

[JimH5]

After Papi's "confession", I think I have more questions than answers. . .Yes he's on the list, but that doesn't mean he tested positive? And what did he test positive for? Nobody is saying.

 

He says he was careless with the over-the-counter supplements and vitamins he was taking. What was he taking? He didn't say.

 

He's got a connection to Angel Presinal, but that didn't come up at his press conference.

 

Union counsel Michael Weiner--Donald Fehr's successor-- says that Ortiz doesn't know what he tested positive for. But I would think the union has to know. But they're not talking. I guess they don't have to.

 

Ortiz said over and over that he has never bought or used steroids.

 

Honestly, he looked like the kid with a baseball bat, standing next to the broken window, the ball sitting inside on a pile a broken glass, wondering how in the world the window got broken. Gosh dad, I just really don't know. . .

 

And yet, as implausible as it seems, they have established a case--paper thin as it is--that he just doesn't know what he took. To his credit, he says that he has passed 15 tests since then, along with 2 WBC tests. So he's either clean, or just one step ahead of the testing agency.

[DuWayne Steurer]

But I would think the union has to know. But they're not talking. I guess they don't have to.

 

 

They can't. Technically, whoever's leaking these names is giving information from a sealed federal document. If the people who are leaking the names ever get revealed, they're going to prison. That's why this is such a bunch of bunk. They can leak names, get them to the right agencies (ESPN, Fox Sports, etc) and never have to divulge how they got the info. They get to hide behind the curtain of anonymity, and in the process, at least in my opinion, lose all credibility.

 

And I don't give a crap about what Jose Canseco says. I don't care that he's right. The guy's a rat, plain and simple. He's doing nothing more and nothing less than selling out his former battle mates for the sake of keeping his name relevant. Pathetic. There's nothing noble about what he's doing. There's nothing honorable. He's not doing this because "we deserve to know". He's doing it for nothing but his own self serving interests. I say again.........pathetic.

[TooLiveBrew]

Honestly, he looked like the kid with a baseball bat, standing next to the broken window, the ball sitting inside on a pile a broken glass, wondering how in the world the window got broken. Gosh dad, I just really don't know. . .

 

That was the impression I got as well.

 

 

And yet, as implausible as it seems, they have established a case--paper thin as it is--that he just doesn't know what he took. To his credit, he says that he has passed 15 tests since then, along with 2 WBC tests. So he's either clean, or just one step ahead of the testing agency.

 

I think the name of the game in major and/or competitive sports is, unfortunately, staying ahead of the tests. And, to borrow a phrase from RoCo, I found the whole guise of, 'Gee all you judgmental baseball fans, poor old David Ortiz is just a victim of people assuming the worst,' pathetic. I'm not buying it, and I doubt many fans are.