Indians trade Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco to Philly for Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson

[ryne100]

http://msn.foxsports.com/...z:-Wednesday%27s-edition

 

The Phillies have reached agreement with the Indians on a trade that would bring them left-hander Cliff Lee and outfielder Ben Francisco for Class A right-hander Jason Knapp, Class AAA right-hander Carlos Carrasco, shortstop Jason Donald and catcher Lou Marson, according to major-league sources.

The deal is pending a review of medical records.

Carrasco was scratched from his start for the Class AAA Lehigh IronPigs on Wednesday, and Donald and Marson were not in the lineup. It was not known whether Donald and Marson had scheduled off-days for an 11 a.m. start after a night game.

[Oldcity]

Is it just me or could the Brewers have easily blown this away?

[Ennder]

It is just you I think.

 

Looks like the Indians wanted major league ready pitching for next season and we don't exactly have any of that. I think they are pretty set on position players in general so it really was looking to turn Lee into a pitcher or two with more service time remaining.

[sheethead]

Is it just me or could the Brewers have easily blown this away?

I was thinking the same thing. Granted I do not know the Phillies farm all that well, but it seems to shed a ton of light on how much JP Ricciardi overplayed his Halladay hand.

[Herm]

Just going by prospect ranking (Phils prospects # 2, 3, 4, and 10 went to Cleveland) the comparable Brewers trade would have been something like Escobar (or Gamel), Lawrie, Lucroy (or Salome), and Peralta (or Cain).

 

I'd say no thanks to anything like that....

[Oldcity]

None of those pitchers are expected to be more than a number three starter. I think the Indians would have been better off keeping Lee to make a run next year.

[Thurston Fluff]

Melvin said Cleveland told him the Brewers didn't have what they wanted a while ago. If you look at that team they are in desperate need of relievers. With the loss of two staff aces in two years they pretty much needed to get at least one good young starter who could be in the rotation for years to come. The one thing the Brewers lack is any minor league starters and very few relievers whom we don't need ourselves.

[rotoherb]

None of those pitchers are expected to be more than a number three starter. I think the Indians would have been better off keeping Lee to make a run next year.

 

Jason Knapp is 18 and throws 98 MPH. His ceiling is much more than a number three starter. Now, he's still very young and has had some injuries, but his potential is much, much more than a #3 starter.

[Pudster13]

Comparable Brewers trade to get Cliff Lee:

 

SP Manny Parra (Carlos Carrasco), SP Jeremy Jeffress (Jason Knapp), 3B Taylor Green (Jason Donald) and C Jonathon Lucroy (Lou Marson)

 

I think the Phillies got an absolute steal in 1 1/2 years of a Cy Young Award winner for a bunch of maybes. It's likely not one player the Phillies gave up will ever be as good as Cliff Lee. Knapp is the key piece coming over to the Indians, as he has a pretty high ceiling as a starting pitcher.

[Oldcity]

So the only major league pitcher they got is Carrasco, who should but solid but nothing special. I'm just a little underwhelmed overall.

[Pudster13]

If Jeffress would have saved off the dope, maybe we could have landed Cliff with that comparable package.

 

Question is:

Would Brewers fans have been willing to give up that similar package?

[RockCoCougars]

Way too much for Lee. People seem to forget that last year he barely made the Indians as a #5 starter. Yes, he went on to a Cy Young season, but it there have been plenty of 'fluke' Cy Young winners in history. Lee's may have been the flukiest.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

So the only major league pitcher they got is Carrasco, who should but solid but nothing special. I'm just a little underwhelmed overall.

 

I'm pretty sure he was considered a big time prospect but struggled in AAA or wherever he is now.

[ryne100]

I think we would need more than Cliff Lee to fix the pitching.... I think we should just ride out the year with what we have, keep our young players, and if pitching doesn't improve start looking at the kind of pitching some of the "young core hitters" can bring back.

[valpocrewsader]

If Lee's contract was up at the end of the year like CC's was, this would be a fair package for Cleveland. Considering Lee's signed through the end of '10, the Indians got hosed. The Phillies farm system is awful and the Indians didn't even manage to get a top 3 prospect in return. Not enough for a non-rental reigning CY Young with a cool 3.14 ERA this year.

[Oldcity]

Exactly. Knapp is years away, Donald is probably a utility infielder and Marson is probably a backup catcher. That they did this without getting one of Drabek or Dominic Brown is crazy. And why throw in Francisco on top of it?

[YoungGeezy]

If Lee's contract was up at the end of the year like CC's was, this would be a fair package for Cleveland. Considering Lee's signed through the end of '10, the Indians got hosed. The Phillies farm system is awful and the Indians didn't even manage to get a top 3 prospect in return. Not enough for a non-rental reigning CY Young with a cool 3.14 ERA this year.

Are you serious? The Phillies farm system is FAR better than aweful and how is giving up your 2, 3,4 and 10 not getting a top 3 prospect? By my count the Indians got two top 3 prospects.

 

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/comments/suddenly-phillies-boast-fertile-farm-system-257039.html

 

thats an article about the Phillies farm system and how it was ranked 12th to start the season and now Jim Callis says it maybe the 6th or 7th best at midseason(before the trade). So yeah, how is that an aweful system? I think Indians got a good deal. A major league ready pitcher, and two hitting prospects that are almost ready to go and a huge upside pitcher who is 18 and has a huge power arm. Not that bad off a trade.

[JoeHova]

Marson is a nice catching prospect, I like him pretty much. He's got great OBP skills but not much power. I know that that sounds suspiciously too much like latter-day Jason Kendall for many people's tastes, but I still think he's a worthwhile prospect.

[valpocrewsader]

The Phillies farm system is FAR better than aweful and how is giving up your 2, 3,4 and 10 not getting a top 3 prospect?

The rankings of 2, 3, 4, and 10 were from preseason rankings. Mid-season reports place Drabek, Taylor, and Brown ahead of Carrasco. By the way, the same system that ranked Carrasco #2 for the Phillies, ranked him as 52nd overall. Pretty underwhelming.

 

Here are the season stats of the Indians' acquisitions:

 

Carrasco:

6-9, 5.18 ERA in 114.2 IP with 112/ 38 SO/BB

 

Donald:

.236/ .297/.332/.629 with 1 HR and 6 SB with 14/53 BB/SO

 

Marson:

.294/.382/.370/.751 with 1 HR and 3 SB with a 30/40 BB/SO

 

Knapp:

2-7, 4.01 ERA in 85.1 IP with 111/39 SO/BB

 

The best talent of the bunch is Knapp, who's in low-A and battling arm fatigue. Then you've got Crarasco's high ERA, Marson's low SLG, and Donald's worthless OPS.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

If we had gotten this haul for Ben Sheets in July, 2007, i would have been pissed. Considering that the Indians have traded two Cy Young winners in a row and have La Porta + 4 mediocre prospects, i'd be calling for their GM's head right now.

 

Given how weak the AL Central is, this was a terrible trade.

[Invader3K]

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/07/fans_reaction.html

 

A lot of pissed off Indians fans right now.

[MJLiverock]

I heard a caller on the radio mention last night that the Phillies didn't even give up any of the 4 guys mentioned in the Halladay rumors and could conceivably still add him to the rotation. That would make the Phillies pretty much the easy favorites for this year and next out of the National League with that offense and a rotation of Halladay, Lee, and Hamels for any series.

[pretendastronaut]

I have a couple of friends from Ohio on Facebook, and they're pretty livid, as are the people commenting on their statuses.

[sheethead]

The Phillies farm system is FAR better than aweful and how is giving up your 2, 3,4 and 10 not getting a top 3 prospect?

The rankings of 2, 3, 4, and 10 were from preseason rankings. Mid-season reports place Drabek, Taylor, and Brown ahead of Carrasco. By the way, the same system that ranked Carrasco #2 for the Phillies, ranked him as 52nd overall. Pretty underwhelming.

 

Here are the season stats of the Indians' acquisitions:

 

Carrasco:

6-9, 5.18 ERA in 114.2 IP with 112/ 38 SO/BB

 

Donald:

.236/ .297/.332/.629 with 1 HR and 6 SB with 14/53 BB/SO

 

Marson:

.294/.382/.370/.751 with 1 HR and 3 SB with a 30/40 BB/SO

 

Knapp:

2-7, 4.01 ERA in 85.1 IP with 111/39 SO/BB

 

The best talent of the bunch is Knapp, who's in low-A and battling arm fatigue. Then you've got Crarasco's high ERA, Marson's low SLG, and Donald's worthless OPS.

Nicely done. Its clear why the Phillies shifted their focus to the Indians and Cliff Lee. Almost as good at this point in his career as Halladay, for much less. Trades like this make me even more angry over Jeffress throwing away his career over some herb. Not only is he not progressing to help the Brewers, but he kills his trade value at the same time.