Why is Ken Macha getting a free pass?

[Eileen Wright]

Bill Hall WAS an important part of our future, that is why he was the first guy to sign a multi-year contract in our current bunch. He has obviously regressed since two years ago. It could be because of the same old coaching staff. I did concede in my last post that it is most likely that he sucks though.

I am totally sticking to my guns on the other five players that I listed.

[Diskono]

How about Prince Fielder, Craig Counsell, Casey McGehee, Rickie Weeks, most of the bullpen, and anyone else who has exceeded expectations? Does the manager get credit for those? Fact is that all players can have good years and bad years, regardless of coaching staff. If they didn't, everybody would know who will win each division at the beginning of the season.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think that GMs have to prepare for the inevitability of injuries to the rotation -- certainly there are some injuries that can knock a team out of contention, but every GM is going to have some nicks and bruises to the starters

 

Looper was meant to do this. It wasn't enough but what else could have been done? The problem wasn't so much the major league starters as it was the complete lack of depth in the upper levels of the minors. Melvin could have traded for some AAA pitching help but I'm not sure how realistic it is to get good AAA pitching without overpaying so much that it hurts the team more through the losses in other areas.

I thought this team would be better because the increase in offense should mitigate the decline in pitching. Macha has not handled the bench well enough to make the offense truly better than last year. For that he has to take the blame. His refusal to play his bench enough to keep them sharp has made this a very shallow offense with no depth to compensate when a starter struggles. Yost was far superior to Macha in that respect.

[logan82]

how many more wins does a 2.65 pitcher win over a 1.65 pitcher.

 

One win over 100 innings(11.1 runs), 2 wins over 200 innings(22.2 runs). (innings/9*(era1-era2))

 

 

At this point, I miss the vent thread. If it could be made into a place where people are allowed to just make these kinds of venting posts without allowing others to correct erroneous assertions, it would seem preferable to the same types of comments surfacing in numerous other threads.

 

I disagree. The vent thread didn't serve its purpose at all. Vent posts spilled over into the regular threads anyway. I think it also attracted posters who wanted to vent and then decided to vent in other threads as well.

[topper09er]

Rotation on opening day 2008:

Sheets

Suppan

Bush

Villanueva

Parra

 

Rotation on opening day 2009:

Gallardo

Suppan

Bush

Parra

Looper

 

I think it is fair to say Gallardo=Sheets, so going into this season the staff is pretty much the same, you could expect Suppan to get worse but I think it would have been pretty difficult to think Bush and Parra would have fallen like they have. Also, Looper=Villanueva at least.

 

As far as the lineup, all starters are the same and most of them are still entering their prime which means you would expect them to level off or increase. I think it would have been pretty difficult to predict the horrible falls of Hardy and Hart and the Weeks injury hurts. Braun and Fielder are both playing better than last year by wide margins.

 

So going in you have to look at the team and feel it is very similar to last season but probably better due to the extra year of development for our young players. We were close and made a big deal mid season which (barely) put us over the top. If DM went into this season thinking: if they are playing well and in contention in July, I can pull the trigger on Peavy and set us up just like year.

 

Instead, we have lost big production from offensive role players and all of our pitchers except for Yo are terrible, with Suppan and Looper 2 of the 4-5 worst starters in all of baseball.

 

Not Kenny's fault.

[logan82]

Not Kenny's fault.

 

I agree with this. I am not saying I think Macha is a good manager. Then again I don't think there is a good manager in MLB.

 

If DM went into this season thinking: if they are playing well and in contention in July, I can pull the trigger on Peavy and set us up just like last year.

 

I think that is exactly what DM was thinking. Our team was set up pretty well for this year. We just had more injuries this year when last year we were relatively healthy.

[Diskono]

Melvin could have traded for some AAA pitching help but I'm not sure how realistic it is to get good AAA pitching without overpaying so much that it hurts the team more through the losses in other areas.

He did bring in Nick Green and Chase Wright, both of which I thought were very good acquisitions - I always like to see a AAA rotation made of players in their mid-20s with something to prove. Green was injured for a bit and hasn't pitched well, but has had some very good games here and there. Wright has been consistently mediocre, but at least he provides a little more depth.

[Thurston Fluff]

Topper if you think the team is roughly the same as last year at this time performing worse whose fault is it? I know who people thought was at fault last year.

I tend to agree it is about the same talent wise. No doubt this year's version has worse starters but better relievers and the same offense one year more mature. If Ned was a problem last year and this team is worse then it stands to reason Macha is no better maybe worse. I don't expect those who hated Yost to say they were wrong but they should at least acknowledge the obvious. This team is no better off with Macha than they were with Yost. Probably worse.

[topper09er]

Last I checked Macha didnt up 2 grandslams to the same Washington National or lead the league in (pitching) walks and HR given up.

 

whose fault is it?

 

Jeff Suppan, Braden Looper, Dave Bush, Manny Parra, Seth McClung, Carlos Villanueva...

[MJLiverock]

I think the expectations for the pitchers should have dropped for 2009 relative to the expectations for the beginning of the 2008 season. I know some people were overly optimistic about Bush getting better and Parra stepping in and being a good pitcher while Suppan didn't regress but I just found those expectations too lofty for myself. The other problem with 09 vs. 08 is the lack of ability to get more than 6 innings out the starters which really wears out a pen. Sheets and Sabathia had that ability and could save the pen, now the pen is routinely asked to throw 3+ innings a night and over the course of 162 games this just grinds the pen down. I would expect the pen numbers to get worse as the year goes on, not rebound to early season success rates.

 

Bush getting hurt definately made things worse since he is at least servicable, average even but short starts and bad talent with no depth is the biggest problem. Even a healthy staff would be wearing the pen out and would be below average in my opinion. Gallardo is likely to wear out further as the season drags on as well. It is tough to expect an essentially first year starter to be the anchor of your staff for approx. 200 innings.

 

I saw a post that mentioned since Suppan has been below replacement level lately replacing him should be a blessing but the Brewers depth is so bad I dont' know if the replacements can be at this so called "replacement" level.

[olliegjw]

Last I checked Macha didnt up 2 grandslams to the same Washington National or lead the league in (pitching) walks and HR given up.

 

 

He did leave Suppan in to give up the second grand slam and 10 runs in the start.

[Eileen Wright]

Last I checked Macha didnt up 2 grandslams to the same Washington National or lead the league in (pitching) walks and HR given up.

 

whose fault is it?

 

Jeff Suppan, Braden Looper, Dave Bush, Manny Parra, Seth McClung, Carlos Villanueva...

 

Macha should have never let Suppan in to give up the second granny and he should have never started Villy. I hold him the most responsible out of anyone for why we lost the first two games at home against the team with the worst record in Major League Baseball.

 

Backupcatchers states my overall case very well.

[topper09er]

He did leave Suppan in to give up the second grand slam and 10 runs in the start.

Actually, Suppan did not give up the 2nd grand slam. The 6th inning went Suppan pitching: walk, bunt, single, double (2Rs), intentional walk. Then Stetter: double (1R), walk. Then DiFelice: Grand slam (4R), flyout, flyout. So of the 7 runs scored in the inning was charged with 4 and obviously his replacements did not do any better. So maybe he left Suppan in a few batters more than he should have his replacements didnt do any better do so how can you blame the manager. If he left in Suppan rather than some using some relief aces (who were rested and could pitch 4 innings) that is one thing, but we dont have that on this team.

[topper09er]

Macha should have never let Suppan in to give up the second granny and he should have never started Villy. I hold him the most responsible out of anyone for why we lost the first two games at home against the team with the worst record in Major League Baseball.

 

Backupcatchers states my overall case very well.

So when a team scores 22 runs in 2 games you blame the manager over the pitchers? Um, OK, like what managerial decision would you have made that would have made a difference? Who would you have started over Villy? Dillard, because he looked amazing yesterday?

[logan82]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think BUC is actually blaming Macha for the team playing poorly. What he is saying is that the poeple who were complaining about Yost last year, should be equally upset with Macha this year. I think.

[Eileen Wright]

topper09er wrote:

So when a team scores 22 runs in 2 games you blame the manager over the pitchers? Um, OK, like what managerial decision would you have made that would have made a difference? Who would you have started over Villy?

 

 

I stand corrected on who gave up the second granny, but he never should have kept Suppan in to the point where he had a chance to give up 10 earned runs (which he did)! Also, I would have started Dillard over Villy. Dillard wasn't the best yesterday, but still better than Villy and I thought he derserved a shot.

Also, how can Macha say that he was going to prevent putting in Villy in a close situation, and then START him roughly five days later?! How can Macha say Villy was going to pitch three innings, yet he keeps him in to start the fourth, where Villy then proceeds to get rocked?! Also, Macha gave the pitching coach job to Castro for whatever reason, and it looks like that has blown up in our face.

Last year during our slide, Yost, the manager, was the scapegoat. Why is it different this year?

[Diskono]

Is Suppan really below replacement level? Wow, the bar must be set pretty high. He's below average surely, but I have my doubts as to whether that level of production is readily available off the street.

 

edit: wow, I hadn't looked at his numbers that closely. Didn't realize he's been that bad.

[JJHardy7]

3. Dave Bush has been in 14 games and has started in 13 of them. Typically you are satisfied if a pitcher can give you 30 starts a year. Therefore, what we have here is legitimately half of a season, hardly a "few starts".

Satisfied with 30 starts a year? I think thrilled would be the better word...

[Ennder]

Is Suppan really below replacement level? Wow, the bar must be set pretty high. He's below average surely, but I have my doubts as to whether that level of production is readily available off the street.

 

edit: wow, I hadn't looked at his numbers that closely. Didn't realize he's been that bad.

Only the last 2 starts really though. Suppan was fine as a #5 until 2 starts ago. Looper has given up more HR than you'd expect for his FB but other than that he is exactly what was expected with a 4.83 xFIP vs a 4.59 last year and a 4.93 the year before. It is really Parra and the injuries that have derailed the pitching more than anything.

[Thurston Fluff]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think BUC is actually blaming Macha for the team playing poorly. What he is saying is that the poeple who were complaining about Yost last year, should be equally upset with Macha this year. I think.

 

Exactly. Im not really a big fan of blaming managers when players play poorly. I do think some blame should go when the manager does not use his players enough to give them a chance to be effective. My only real compliant about him is his use, lack of use really, of the bench players. Had Hall been average McGehee would be one of them. Nelson and Duffy never really got enough playing time to stay sharp enough to be effective when called upon and same thing is happening now with Gerut. That is a pattern that concerns me. If he continues to do that we will always have a short bench.

 

 

So when a team scores 22 runs in 2 games you blame the manager over the pitchers? Um, OK, like what managerial decision would you have made that would have made a difference? Who would you have started over Villy? Dillard, because he looked amazing yesterday?

 

Funny I used to say the same thing about Ned. FO rthe most part I agree with you but to play devils advocate I will use the same argument as Ned bashers did. The manager puts the players in the position to win.

Sometimes it is the decision made weeks or even months ago that make today's poor choices what they are. It isn't about two games where his hands were tied it is about how he got his hands tied. I don't have a problem with how he handles a poor pitching staff but the tread is asking why Macha is getting a pass. IMO Those who didn't accept it wasn't Ned's fault when he had poor pitching must now admit either it's Macha's fault this team is where it's at pitching wise or that maybe Ned wasn't as bad at it as they previously thought. No free passes.

[Eileen Wright]

I am happy that many here are finally giving Macha the heat he deserves. He needs to be shown the door as soon as possible.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

Usually first year managers are given a little bit longer leash. I have seen heat on him so I don't think he is given a free pass. I guess it is up to the individual to decide whether he is getting the heat he may deserve. Personally, I was very much anti-Ned. I think that Macha does a better job matching up hitters and pitchers than Ned. I don't like to make outs on the bases so in that sense I don't mind Macha, but I can understand why some of you think that they are not aggressive enough. In defense of their strategy and third base coach, teams are playing their outfied very deep against the Brewers and are daring the Brewers to bunch hits together. It is tough to get extra bases against that defense. Again, it would be easy to argue for more stolen bases in order to counteract that. I am very disappointed that we seem to have run out of gas again. Ned's teams usually faded down the stretch. Now, Ken's is doing the same. Maybe we need to keep searching until we find a manager who can prevent that. Maybe it isn't the manager's fault and we need better players. I guess I am saying that seeing what I have seen, and seeing what I am seeing, I am less certain as to whether it is the manager's fault or the players' fault.

[kramnoj]

I'm wondering at what point Macha will be let go. I think there's a good chance that Randolph replaces him this season and gets his own audition to be the 2010 manager. He wouldn't be my choice, but I think he will be given the chance to try and save the season if the Brewers don't turn around quickly.

 

I've always loved Davey Johnson. Does he have an interest in being a manager? I thought he hadn't been managing by choice, either to be with family or because of health reasons.