CV to start on Tuesday

[hawing]

I'm growing tired of their 'punting' games I am scheduled to attend. In April and May it was like you liked me, Brewers. What gives?

No kidding. I actually switched tickets from tonight to tomorrow for some friends. That is looking like a BIG mistake.

On the slightly less dark side, you're not watching this game in person.

 

I've half a mind to just up and go by myself on Thursday. I'm desperate to see a non-crappy game and Yo might give the best chance of that.

[Invader3K]

Well, he can't be any worse than this garbage tonight. Right? RIGHT?

[JJHardy7]

I'm not a fan of CV starting in general...especially when he's not stretched out. I really, really like Dillard as a bullpen guy, but he is stretched out. I know he's most likely not a long-term starter in the bigs, but it's shocking to move a bullpen guy in the rotation at this critical juncture IMO. I'm not a fan of Macha's 'ideas'. It just doesn't make any sense. Have Dillard start like he has been all year and then put CV in later. If CV gets crushed in the first or second inning, we're screwed.

[hawing]

I can't imagine that anyone expects CV to last more than 2-3 innings. I realize that still validates your suggestion that Dillard start.

[naivin]

If this along with Suppan's performance tonight doesn't signal its time to try to sell off some guys, nothing will. We don't need to acquire a SP, we need to acquire 2 or 3, and they better be pretty good. Anything less will simply compound the problmes they are experience now that were not properly addressed in the off season.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't really understand it. Dillard was stretched out, CV can give you what? 3 good innings if he's on?

As the season marches on, I grow more & more concerned that there is a decent disconnect between Macha & the front office. However, given the way in which Macha commented, it almost sounds like the Villy start has been ordered from on high ("Our people think...").

 

 

The problem is that their offense is far from pitiful...they have a few guys who can really hurt you if you throw meatball.

 

Ouch -- this is especially painful to read after tonight's "game"

[jjkoestler]

I think we already have a thread discussing this topic entitled "Low Point of the Season."

[Invader3K]

Macha confirmed what I suspected this morning on WTMJ...says he hopes Villanueva can go 3-4 innings, and Dillard will be backing him up. So basically it's a "Villard" start tonight.

[naivin]

What's really sad is that this is more or less the rotation for the remainder of the year.

 

Gallardo (until he wears down anyway)

Looper

Parra/Bush

Suppan

Villa/Dillard

 

But look on the bright side...with Hall and Suppan still on the books, there is nothing really there to suggest they will be able to make significant improvements for next year either.

[sheethead]

Probably already said here, but why not start the guy that is stretched out? How can this game not end badly? I usually watch a good train wreck, but this one looks to have a good possibility of fatalities. Blood makes me nautious.

[Diskono]

The problem is that their offense is far from pitiful...they have a few guys who can really hurt you if you throw meatballs, as Villa's been prone to lately. I would've preferred to see Dillard get the start, but perhaps they'll just piggyback the two.

One could argue that Dillard *only* throws meatballs.

 

Probably already said here, but why not start the guy that is stretched out? How can this game not end badly? I usually watch a good train wreck, but this one looks to have a good possibility of fatalities. Blood makes me nautious.

I mentioned this in the other thread discussing the topic, but I think its because this probably isn't going to be a one-off spot start. If we'd be better off long-term with a stretched out Villanueva in the rotation, we need to get him to that point ASAP.

[Thurston Fluff]

This again makes no sense. The way Macha talked about Dillard, he makes him sound like he's better used as a reliever. Then why was he turned back into a starter this year?

 

They did so because of how weak the AAA rotation was. AAA starters can relieve in the majors easier than AAA relievers can start.

When it comes to players like Dillard I don't think it matters what his role in AAA is if all the organization sees him as is a reliever. In fact since he is stretched out he can go more innings per appearance because he was a starter in the minors. That makes him more useful as a reliever in the majors while maximizing their rotation options.

[JJHardy7]

I mentioned this in the other thread discussing the topic, but I think its because this probably isn't going to be a one-off spot start. If we'd be better off long-term with a stretched out Villanueva in the rotation, we need to get him to that point ASAP.

The way CV's pitched out of the pen lately they could've sent him to AAA to get stretched out. To me, it screams that this was not well thought out/planned right at all.

They did so because of how weak the AAA rotation was. AAA starters can relieve in the majors easier than AAA relievers can start.
When it comes to players like Dillard I don't think it matters what his role in AAA is if all the organization sees him as is a reliever. In fact since he is stretched out he can go more innings per appearance because he was a starter in the minors. That makes him more useful as a reliever in the majors while maximizing their rotation options.

I don't think this is true. Dillard was moved to a starting role because how weak the MLB rotation could potentially be...at least that's been the story down here. He just hasn't had the numbers to go along with the plan the Brewers had. He's worked on his secondary pitches, but so far he still looks like a reliever. Dillard was a multiple inning guy last year out of the pen...he's never been just a one inning guy. Why even waste all the innings on Dillard's arm this year? He's already pitched almost double the innings last year than this year. This again doesn't indicate that this was well thought out. I'd much rather call up Dillard in a relief role when he doesn't have the huge potential to be gassed like he does now. When the Brewers make moves solely on the AAA rotation, we better be a perennial playoff team.

[Diskono]

I think sending CV to AAA could have been considered an overreaction too. His peripherals have been fine. On Dillard in the AAA rotation, I'd have to agree that it has a lot to do with the AAA rotation being bad, but its also possible that pushing him a little further could make him a more effective reliever. Last season he pitched about as well as could be expected of him out of the pen, so is there any more room for improvement? Or would we need to give him a more challenging assignment (i.e. AAA starting rotation or MLB bullpen) in order for him to get better?

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't think this is true. Dillard was moved to a starting role because how weak the MLB rotation could potentially be

 

I should have stated that better. I meant quality starters at both the majors and AAA were in short supply so they used Dillard as a starter to cover mroe bases (no pun intended). I don't know if innings accumulated as a starter count the same, injury/fatigue wise as they do as a reliever. I will let that to someone smarter than I. I suspect the toll is more taxing as a reliever than a starter because of the inconsistency of appearances. But that is just speculation on my part.

[JJHardy7]

I think sending CV to AAA could have been considered an overreaction too. His peripherals have been fine. On Dillard in the AAA rotation, I'd have to agree that it has a lot to do with the AAA rotation being bad, but its also possible that pushing him a little further could make him a more effective reliever. Last season he pitched about as well as could be expected of him out of the pen, so is there any more room for improvement? Or would we need to give him a more challenging assignment (i.e. AAA starting rotation or MLB bullpen) in order for him to get better?

I would send him to AAA to get stretched out...that'd be the only reason. Not that he's struggling or anything else like that. I still don't understand how having him pitch double the innings this year compared to last year helps Milwaukee at all this year. I do feel Milwaukee was trying to make him a starter. I don't think it had anything to do with Nashville's rotation. You could easily sign a veteran type guy to fill that role and hope for the best. Look at RA Dickey this year...he was in Nashville as a veteran type without much expected. Sometimes it works.

I should have stated that better. I meant quality starters at both the majors and AAA were in short supply so they used Dillard as a starter to cover mroe bases (no pun intended). I don't know if innings accumulated as a starter count the same, injury/fatigue wise as they do as a reliever. I will let that to someone smarter than I. I suspect the toll is more taxing as a reliever than a starter because of the inconsistency of appearances. But that is just speculation on my part.

That makes more sense. I get what you're saying about starting. I just don't know if it's a good idea to use him as a starter for so many innings and then switch him. I'd rather have a fresh Dillard than one that has probably changed his approach since he's been starting and could possibly not be as effective. His season as a RP was pretty darn good IMO and he should've never been switched, but I've had a problem with how the Brewers 'develop' relievers for awhile. Dillard should've been in the bullpen in Milwaukee to start the year IMO. This way you don't waste money on a guy like Julio.

[scrapiron]

I don't get the consternation over the move. Up until last year CV was a fine starting pitcher when called upon. If I crunched the numbers right he had a 3.02 ERA in 71.2 innings as a starter over 2006 & 2007. His numbers have never been overly terrible and they even have been very good, even this year his ERA is skewed a bit. And he's only 25 I believe. He's young, more than serviceable, why not give him a shot. I would want them to exhaust all possibilities with CV before just lumping him in with the likes of Burns or thinking of him as trade bait. While I think he is getting set up to fail a bit here, I still think CV is, and at worse can be, a quality MLB pitcher, even a starter. I'm happier with this move than bringing up Cody, Wright or even Dillard to start.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I don't get the consternation over the move.

I don't either, and I don't even feel like I need to make an argument that Villy is a better pitcher than he's shown so far this year (though that's true) to explain why. At the end of the day, both Villy and Dillard were going to pitch multiple innings today. I can't get worked up about the order in which they pitch said innings.

 

In fact, if anything, it's probably smarter to use the pitcher whose performance and number of innings look more uncertain first. In the event he's getting lit up, at least you know that you've gotten nothing from him, and the other guy can go 5+ innings in a game that you are highly unlikely to win anyway.

[Diskono]

Ah, misunderstood you on the reasons for sending CV down. That would have made sense, provided they could see this situation coming.

 

I think we can agree that Dillard was moved into a starting role to further his development and/or increase his value to the Major League team. I'd also agree that pitching out of the MLB bullpen would have been better for him, but the AAA rotation is probably isn't far behind. Now, whether they had realistic expectations of becoming a ML starter, or just wanted to give him more time to work on things, is another question. I don't know if starting or relief is tougher on a pitcher's arm - I know a lot of people have suggested that regular work and regular rest is actually better than the uncertainty of bullpen duty. Both arguments make sense to me, so I could see it going either way.

[jazzytrav]

I'm still a Villy fan, and still holding out hope that he gets consistent starts. I just wish he hadn't been moved back and forth so much during his career. I always thought he was better stretched out.

[mls4]

Villanueva may (or may not) be the better pitcher, but that's not the issue that makes this so confusing. Macha just got done telling us why Suppan was left in for the disastrous 6th inning last night- "We need to get more innings out of our starters. You can't be going out to the bullpen for four innings every night."

 

Then the next night we start a relief pitcher who will have a pitch limit of about 60. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[TooLiveBrew]

Macha's comment that, "Our people believe he gives us the best chance to win," makes me think Ken wasn't the one that decided who would be the starter today.

[craigharmann]

Anyone surprised by that outing?

[Invader3K]

Nope, not really.

[brewmann04]

well that par for the course Villy implode in 4 ,Last night Soup implodes in 5 and Looper Imploded in 6 not a vey positve sign.