Sharpie? (aka Doug Davis)

[clancyphile]

How about the possibility of bringing Doug Davis back to the crew?

 

The Davis-for-Estrada trade wasn't really a very good one.

 

As for who I'd offer the D-Backs... I'd offer them Mat Gamel straight up for Doug Davis and Cole Gillespie.

 

Yeah, it's a bit of a steep price - but to be honest, losing Gamel is NOT the end of the world at third base - down in Huntsville, Taylor Green's doing very well and also plays third without any questions about his defense. Green's bat is more akin to Jeff Cirillo than a regular third baseman, but I'd argue a Cirillo-type is probably more what the Brewers need.

[brewmann04]

There is no way that melvin does that deal Gamel should be moved for only a front line starter only . I believe Davis could be FA next year and you don't make that trade. I also read that melvin asked about him when he got Lopez but arz wanted more than melvin wanted to give up

[bklynbrewcrew]

Gamel for Davis? Please tell me thats a joke.

[davego]

For Cole straight up, possibly.

[Hate those Rodents]

Is this a thread basically to talk about loving Gillespie and not seeing a lot of value in Gamel?

[DHonks]

Gamel's 2 notches better as a prospect than Gillespie. The other issue is that Davis's agent told him that the Dbacks are trying to extend him, not trade him.

[wallus]

Why do we want Cole back?

[JoeHova]

The Brewers should try to expand the deal to include Alcides Escobar in exchange for Eric Byrnes too. Byrnes and Davis are just what the Brewers need to turn their season around.

[clancyphile]

Is this a thread basically to talk about loving Gillespie and not seeing a lot of value in Gamel?

No. I think Doug Davis is probably the best option out there. He also did quite well in Milwaukee - and if we WANT to have a playoff shot, we ought to think about getting starting pitchers as opposed to baby seals in the rotation.

 

Also, I think that Gamel should not be so untouchable - largely because of Taylor Green. I know Gamel's gotten all the thunder among Brewers minor-league third basemen, but Green's quietly putting up a solid OPS in Huntsville, he also is much better on defense. It's not as if you also have to rule out moving Lawrie back to third - or even using McGeehee as a continuing stopgap next season (either by himself or in a platoon with Counsell and/or Green).

 

For the right deal (say, a chance to get an above-average major-league starting pitcher), I'd move Gamel. When I cast my vote for the top prospects in the poll, I said at the time I released my ballot:

Taylor Green very nearly got the top spot over Gamel - for many of the same reasons that Cole Gillespie got a slightly higher posting than Lorenzo Cain: A lot of Green's strengths are in areas there the Brewers are weak, particularly in his OBP skills, and he adds doubles power.

If I can get a better starter with Gamel in the deal, I'll do it - because Taylor Green's probably capable of being a fine third baseman in his own right.

 

And yes, I'd like Cole Gillespie back - for many of the same reasons I nearly made Green the #1 prospect: He has very advanced OBP skills, which the major-league Brewers presently lack (although, when the pitching gives up 10 runs, you're not gonna win many games).

 

My thinking is Gamel at 3B + ? in the rotation + Gerut on the bench is not as good as Green/McGehee at 3B + Sharpie in the rotation + Gillespie on the bench.

[clancyphile]

The Brewers should try to expand the deal to include Alcides Escobar in exchange for Eric Byrnes too. Byrnes and Davis are just what the Brewers need to turn their season around.

Rickie Weeks can't stay healthy - he's missed significant time the last two seasons. I'm of a mind to plug Escobar in at second base and give JJ Hardy an extension (which we might be able to do at a reasonable price given his slump this year) and making him the shortstop for the next six years.

 

For 2010, the lineup (with this move) would be:

2B: Escobar

RF: Hart

LF: Braun

1B: Fielder

CF: Cameron (extend him for two years)

SS: Hardy

3B: Green/McGehee

C: Salome

Pitcher (Gallardo/Davis/Bush/Suppan/Parra)

[cvmvp12]

The Crew could get more for Gamel than DD, plus if we were to give Gamel i would want a better pitcher than Davis. The only way i would consider this is if we got DD and a prospect that isnt much worse than Gamel, but played a position we needed. (CF or pitching)

[paulmolitor4]

Wow... Gamel for Davis. Really? There's probably 20-25 SP's out there who we could get for Gamel that would be better than Davis.

[clancyphile]

Wow... Gamel for Davis. Really? There's probably 20-25 SP's out there who we could get for Gamel that would be better than Davis.

Davis's 3.76 ERA would be SECOND on the Brewers rotation. Only Gallardo would be pitching better. The AA cupboard has been bare (Burns just hasn't cut it), and McClung's on the DL after he got hammered. Parra may be turning it around, but Dave Bush was posting a 5.21 ERA before he went on the DL.

 

Now, we're hoping Tim Dillard just MIGHT take the need for a starter somewhat off the table. I don't know about you, but right now, the Crew seems to be needing starting pitching help - and the starting pitching market is a seller's market right now.

[monkeyman343434]

well, of course if we do this, Ryan Braun goes back to 3B, right?

[clancyphile]

well, of course if we do this, Ryan Braun goes back to 3B, right?

Read up the thread.

 

McGehee and Counsell split time at third this year - with Taylor Green taking over for Counsell in 2010.

[TheCrew07]

There is simply no way that you'll ever convince any sane poster on this forum that Davis is worth Gamel. I have to believe that your end game here is actually to reacquire Gillespie.

 

Green and Gamel are not competing for the same spot on the roster today, or maybe ever. I'm firmly entrenched on the Green bandwagon, but he's not the hitter that Gamel is, nor will he be. Gamel could move to the OF or 1B... I don't see Green having that same positional flexibility. Green is a fantastic backup plan if Gamel is unable to stick at 3B, I'd rather let it play itself out and see where everyone ends up. I see no good reason to move Gamel to create space for Green.

 

As far as Gillespie goes... the ship has sailed. Accept it, embrace it, move on. Cody may not be the pitcher you claimed he was either...

[clancyphile]

There is simply no way that you'll ever convince any sane poster on this forum that Davis is worth Gamel. I have to believe that your end game here is actually to reacquire Gillespie.

 

Green and Gamel are not competing for the same spot on the roster today, or maybe ever. I'm firmly entrenched on the Green bandwagon, but he's not the hitter that Gamel is, nor will he be. Gamel could move to the OF or 1B... I don't see Green having that same positional flexibility. Green is a fantastic backup plan if Gamel is unable to stick at 3B, I'd rather let it play itself out and see where everyone ends up. I see no good reason to move Gamel to create space for Green.

 

As far as Gillespie goes... the ship has sailed. Accept it, embrace it, move on. Cody may not be the pitcher you claimed he was either...

Green can play second as well - or has in the past.

 

As for what you believe... I can't help that.

 

But the reality is that starting pitching IS a seller's market, and has been ever since Jake Peavy went down for the season. It's also pretty safe to say that Doug Davis WOULD be the second-best starter in the rotation as it is presently constituted. I mean, Dave Bush is still out for a few weeks. Parra got roughed up his last time out. Looper and Suppan are posting numbers in line with #4s.

 

Right now, Gallardo is bordering as a #1/#2. Behind him, Looper and Suppan have pitched like #4s, and Bush and Parra have been pitching like #5 starters. Davis is at least a borderline #2/#3 starter. Of course, if Tim Dillard can start posting qualit starts, the discussion becomes a bit more academic. Now, I have liked what I've seen from Dillard in the minors as a starter, but aside from him, the cupboard's pretty bare.

 

Would I like Gillespie back? Yeah, and so I put him into the deal as well, but the main objective is the rotation - and Doug Davis was NOT being discussed among other possibilities.

 

Again, let's be honest, if I were the Brewers' GM, and offered Gamel for Davis, Gerardo Parra, and Cesar Valdez - would that happen? As I said, it's not a buyer's market this year, and Arizona would say no. Perhaps I could make their minor-league toss-in for Orlando Mercado, a 24-year-old catcher who has racked up a .396 OBP between AA and AAA this year, or go for Winston Litton, a CF prospect on their High-A club. Given the seller's market for pitching, that is about what I think could be acquired: Davis and a throw-in for Gamel, and that throwin would be either a prospect a few years away or someone like Mercado, who looks like a 24-year-old Jason Kendall minus the speed.

 

I also think that you view Taylor Green's presence the wrong way. He is not just a bacup - he makes dealing Gamel an option that shouldn't be off the table so fast. There is always the option of moving Lawrie to third to be Green's backup (or to render Green a two-year placeholder to be moved for pitching - or some other need - down the road). Pretty much the difference between Gamel and Green is comparing Corey Hart's bat to that of Jeff Cirillo. The Brewers have plenty of guys who can hit it out of the part, but it might be nice to have a couple of Cirillo-type hitters in the lineup every day.

 

And as for Cody... well, I'll say it up front: Right now, he's got a far better chance of making the Brewers' rotation than Jeremy Jeffress.

[logan82]

It's also pretty safe to say that Doug Davis WOULD be the second-best starter in the rotation as it is presently constituted.

 

I don't think that is safe to say at all. The way he has pitched would make him the 2nd best starter in our rotation, but to think he will keep that up is pretty wishful thinking. He is probably a tick better than Suppan and maybe Looper. I would expect Parra to out-pitch Davis for the rest of the season. We are not a pitcher of Doug Davis quality away from the playoffs. Giving up a top prospect for a mediocre pitcher would be the first step to getting DM fired, and rightfully so.

[clancyphile]

It's also pretty safe to say that Doug Davis WOULD be the second-best starter in the rotation as it is presently constituted.

 

I don't think that is safe to say at all. The way he has pitched would make him the 2nd best starter in our rotation, but to think he will keep that up is pretty wishful thinking. He is probably a tick better than Suppan and maybe Looper. I would expect Parra to out-pitch Davis for the rest of the season. We are not a pitcher of Doug Davis quality away from the playoffs. Giving up a top prospect for a mediocre pitcher would be the first step to getting DM fired, and rightfully so.

Parra's last outing was what, 5 IP, 10 hits, 4 ER?

 

Right now, there's only three games. Davis might have done better than early Parra or Doug Bush. Or imagine him in there instead of burns and McClung, who were more like baby seals than starting pitchers.

 

And Taylor Green isn't going to be a bad choice at third base, either. Gamel is far less of a loss to the Brewers than Escobar would be.

[GB12]

Even if we did somehow trade for Davis there's no way Gillespie would come back. If we thought that much of him we wouldn't have traded him in the first place. You don't trade a player and then trade back for him two weeks later. That's just stupid.

[logan82]

Even if Davis could come in and be our 2nd best pitcher, it would be a very bad idea to trade a top prospect for him. He is a marginal upgrade over what we already have and wouldn't be anywhere near enough to get us into the playoffs this year. There is zero reason to trade for the guy unless we can get him really cheap. Davis is probably about a little over a win better than Burns over the rest of the year. I have no problem trying to trade for him. He is an upgrade over our worst pitcher. It would just be very dumb to give up Gamel or any of our other top prospects to get him. I wouldn't even give up Green for him.

 

And Taylor Green isn't going to be a bad choice at third base, either. Gamel is far less of a loss to the Brewers than Escobar would be.

 

Even if Taylor Green is a good player, Gamel will probably be better. Gamel can easily move to another position if Green turns out to be a good player.

[brewmann04]

Gamel for Davis makes no sense whatsoever and Melvin should be fired on the Spot if he pulled a trade like that.

Davis will not make the Brewers that much Better since we have more than one hole to fill.

[gobrew23]

Parra's last outing was what, 5 IP, 10 hits, 4 ER?

And in Davis' last 3 games he has 12.1 IP, 18 hits, 13 ER.

[brewmann04]

forget this deal thankfully melvin will have more sense

[Hate those Rodents]

Yeah, can we just lock this thread? The proposal is ludicrous and I think we have a better Doug Davis thread somewhere anyway.