Jarrod Washburn- Latest: Beat Reporters for both teams think they're talking

[Invader3K]

Who's talking about prospects? The rumbling seems to be Hardy being the one who would get traded.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think he'd be an ok addition, but I'd be reluctant to trade anything of real value (read: prospects) for him, especially since he's older and a FA-to-be.

[PeaveyFury]

Just to add my personal thoughts: I like trading Hardy here only if we get Morrow back as well. That at least guarantees that we'll have a longer-term solution in the rotation going forward as well, and not just a rental.

 

My love for Jeff Clement remains unphased, so if they insist on Escobar, I'd like to see if they've soured on him as much as the fans have in a whopping 200+ AB's in an expanded deal....

[KCBrewerfan34]

If Escobar was not offered up in the Halladay deal why do we think he goes in a Washburn trade?

[Invader3K]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. If we're going to trade Escobar, we better be getting back Felix Hernandez or someone of that caliber.

[Invader3K]

Can someone clarify if the Brewers would be likely to offer Washburn arbitration after this season? Would he be a type A free agent?

 

I know this hasn't mattered in the past with him, but since he's from Wisconsin, maybe they could even resign him to a reasonable contract.

[endaround]

He will most likely be a Type B. He's making $10.35m so would likely be looking at $12m or so in arby and since he's unlikely to get a multiyear deal at his age would likely take it. Unless he was willing to settle for Looper type money I doubt he'd be back next year. He's averaged above $7m in value for the three years prior to this one.

[fondybrewfan]

He will most likely be a Type B. He's making $10.35m so would likely be looking at $12m or so in arby and since he's unlikely to get a multiyear deal at his age would likely take it. Unless he was willing to settle for Looper type money I doubt he'd be back next year. He's averaged above $7m in value for the three years prior to this one.

I would also hope he realizes that today's market isn't what it was 3 years ago either. His value in this upcoming offseason is probably no where near 3 years and $7M per even with his excellent season. I think the Crew would have a realistic shot at signing him, maybe 2 years/10-12M.

 

I am still trying to figure out what kind of package would need to be done to get him here. It would take more than just Washburn for Hardy or Escobar I am just not sure how much more. I would think it would take more for Escobar just because he is under control for much longer than Hardy. If Jack has soured on Morrow I could see a Hardy + a prospect for Washburn & Morrow or Escobar for Washburn & Morrow. The prospect in the Hardy trade probably has to be in the 7-15 range.

[JohnBriggs12]

He will most likely be a Type B. He's making $10.35m so would likely be looking at $12m or so in arby and since he's unlikely to get a multiyear deal at his age would likely take it. Unless he was willing to settle for Looper type money I doubt he'd be back next year. He's averaged above $7m in value for the three years prior to this one.

Lowe got a huge multi year deal at age 35 last off-season. Though I don't think Washburn figures to get anywhere near that kind of deal, $25-30 million over 3 would seem quite feasible.

[trwi7]

I like trading Hardy here only if we get Morrow back as well. That at least guarantees that we'll have a longer-term solution in the rotation going forward as well....

Am I the only one who doesn't consider Morrow a long-term rotation option? I think he's a reliever. Big fastball, no control and bad breaking/off-speed pitches. Doesn't sound like somebody you would want starting.

 

I also think it's pretty funny that the Mariners are considered sellers and we're considered buyers even though the Mariners have a better record than us. I really hope Doug considers selling instead of buying.

[DHonks]

Washburn would provide more depth for the Brewers, especially if we tried to extend him (say 2 yrs $14 million, 3 years $20 million). We need guys that can go 6-7 innings, and that's what he is.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

This deal only makes sense if they are optimistic on Morrow. Washburn would be nice, but he won't go much below fair market value next year. We'd probably just let Looper go and spend a little extra for Washburn..

 

If I'm Melvin I'm not that concerned with 2009. I want to make sure any trade makes the team better for 2010. If he can get more for Hardy in the offseason, do it then. If Morrow is the guy you want...young and controlled for a while...go for it.

 

If they trade Escobar there better be alot more coming back than what they are talking. I'd want the pitchers, 3TO, Ichiro, the SpaceNeedle, Bill Gates' house and all future rights to the Nintendo Wii.

[Never Outhustled]

It seems like just because TH mentioned Hardy and Escobar, everyone assumes we have to give up a SS to get Washburn. The M's are terrible in LF. Hart would be a fit for them. I also don't know how Morrow got his name thrown in here, if Washburn is dealt, they call up Morrow to take his place in the rotation.

 

More likely, it will be a package of 3 non-elite prospects. Green makes sense for Seattle. Gillespie was always a Jack Z favorite, too bad we gave him up for a guy we didn't need just because Macha was too dumb to play Gamel.

 

Washburn isn't a great pitcher, but he is great this year, and , likely by no coincidence, he was great in his last contract year too.

[trwi7]

The M's are terrible in LF. Hart would be a fit for them.

Not really. They just called up Michael Saunders.

[jjfanec]

Am I the only one who doesn't consider Morrow a long-term rotation option? I think he's a reliever. Big fastball, no control and bad breaking/off-speed pitches. Doesn't sound like somebody you would want starting.

While you are right he walks too many people here is a BA blurb on him two years ago.

87 BRANDON MORROW, rhp, Mariners

Can blow hitters away with his fastball, slider or splitter

Opening Day Age: 22. ETA: 2008

Morrow is the kind of pitcher we want for JJ. We are not going to get a top of the line young pitcher for one year of Hardy so getting Washburn and a guy like Morrow who at best projects as a top-end starter or a future closer would be a nice deal for us. It is a trade for this year and the long-term. It is being a buyer and seller at the same time.

[trwi7]

His slider is below average, his splitter is probably slightly above average and his fastball is straight. Which leads me back to my main point. Can you be a successful starting pitcher with a straight fastball, slightly above average splitter, a below average slider and horrible control? I have my doubts.

[patrickgpe]

if the brewers trade jj for morrow and washburn i'd be fine with that. If its Escobar I'm going to be angry. I know conventional wisdom is that you don't want to trade a veteran every day starter and replace him with a rookie, but Escobar is going to be able to hit 230 in the bigs and has better range. You also must take into account he has 3 years before arby and hardy is unrestricted after next season. Teams like the brewers need to make decisions like this all the time, especially considering there is alot of good players that are up for arbitration or free agency in the near future and i'd hate to see the brewers give a key young cog away, especially considering that while i'm not giving up hope yet, but i think a playoff run like last season is going to be difficult.

[endaround]

Yes Washburn isn't going to get a huge multiyer deal, thats the whole point of why he won't get offered arby since his arby award is likely double his value. The Brewers are in this mess by relying on mid 30s pitchers with mediocre stuff, they really don't need another one next year.

 

The M's also have Fields which is likely why Morrow is available since they have doubts about him being a starter going forward.

[jjfanec]

His slider is below average, his splitter is probably slightly above average and his fastball is straight. Which leads me back to my main point. Can you be a successful starting pitcher with a straight fastball, slightly above average splitter, a below average slider and horrible control? I have my doubts.

Not that I am arguing (I am just going off BA's report) but do you have scouting reports or first-hand knowledge of his stuff. He has struck out more than a batter per 9 inning in the majors and gives up well under a hit per 9 so I find it unlikely he just has a straight fast ball and below average to average other stuff. His walks are the big concern but his numbers suggest good stuff.

[CWSOmaha]

If Escobar is being traded, and I HOPE NOT, it better be for Cliff Lee who we'd have next year also. Like previous posters have said...if DM wasn't willing to give up Escobar for Lee or Halladay why would he give him up for Washburn(who can walk in the off season), and Morrow who is kind of unproven/inconsistant and not sure if he is a SP or RP?

[trwi7]

Not that I am arguing (I am just going off BA's report) but do you have scouting reports or first-hand knowledge of his stuff. He has struck out more than a batter per 9 inning in the majors and gives up well under a hit per 9 so I find it unlikely he just has a straight fast ball and below average to average other stuff. His walks are the big concern but his numbers suggest good stuff.

I've seen him pitch several times. He walks nearly six per 9 innings as a starter, his strikeout rate goes down to 8.56 per 9 innings, which is still good. He's given up 11 HR's in 55.2 innings as a starter and has a 5.17 ERA and 1.60 WHIP as a starter. His FIP as a starter is 5.80.

 

As far as his pitches, his pitch type values seem to support what I'm saying. Good fastball, slightly above average splitter, below average with everything else.http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9346&position=P

[Hate those Rodents]

I am wondering what it'd take to get Jeff Clement in the deal along with Washburn and Morrow. You gotta think JZ has an attachment to either Salome or Lucroy and would love for one of "his guys" to be the catcher of the future.

 

What about Hardy/Salome/Green/Fredrickson for Washburn/Morrow/Clement?

[liveforoctober]

I am wondering what it'd take to get Jeff Clement in the deal along with Washburn and Morrow. You gotta think JZ has an attachment to either Salome or Lucroy and would love for one of "his guys" to be the catcher of the future.

 

What about Hardy/Salome/Green/Fredrickson for Washburn/Morrow/Clement?

I am actually a little sick to my stomach just looking at that deal.

 

We'd give up a young, proven major league shortstop, our starting catcher next year, a valuable corner infielder in our system, and our supplemental first round pick from last year ... for half a season of Washburn, a work in progress in Morrow, and a "catcher" who hasn't caught a game since May and can't supplant Kenji Johjima and Rob Johnson in Seattle.

 

If you took Salome and either of the other two prospects out of the deal I would BEGIN to consider it.

[jwill535]

There are by far no guruantees that Salome would be the starting catcher next. Depending on what the organization values(defense vs bat) Lucroy could get the nod.

[endaround]

Yeah but Clement isn't any type of catcher now and isn't hitting well enough for a 1B/DH about to turn 26 .

 

EDIT: Clement this year 0.284 0.363 0.496

 

Nelson last year 0.288 0.382 0.482