Cardinals acquire Matt Holliday for 3B Brett Wallace, RHP Clayton Mortensen and OF Shane Peterson

[southpaw121505]

Well played Mr. Beane

[crewcrazy]

If the Cards do go through with this trade, the irony would be that it seems likely to play out the same way the Sabathia situation did with the Brewers. He might help them get to the playoffs, but he's likely to test the free agent waters, and there's been some speculation the Yankees would be interested. If I remember correctly, there were also stories during last year's All-Star break about Holliday and his dad being huge Yankees fans while they were growing up and dreaming about the day Matt would play in Yankee Stadium.

 

So, if St. Louis wants to give up Brett Wallace for an outfielder with an .800 OPS that's likely to bolt instead of for Roy Halladay, I say let them. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Edit: CheezWiz, Wallace is generally seen as more of a polished hitter than Gamel (hits for average and power, but with much better plate discipline) but doesn't have the "look" of a prototypical third baseman according to some. He's not exactly built like Prince or anything, but I imagine going to an AL team will help him if he can't stick at third. He's supposed to be a better athlete than his body type would indicate, though. Here is a short MLB.com scouting report.

[razzzorsharp]

Well, will the Cards gets some picks out of it?

[JohnBriggs12]

Brewer's chances of re-signing Sabathia = 0%

 

Cardinals chances of re-signing Holliday = I'd put them at 25% at least.

 

Holliday is a native of Stillwater, OK, which is not all that far from St. Louis and probably is home to a fair number of Cardinal fans. Cardinal management hasn't spent foolishly. They have the money to keep him.

 

We also know this. He makes the Cards the odds on in this division in 2009 if they weren't already.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

Assuming Glause comes back, they'll have

 

Rasmus

DeRosa

Pujols

Halladay

Ludwick

Glaus

Molina

Lugo/Schumaker/Ryan

 

Damn, looks like Tony wont have to mess around with the pitcher batting 8th anymore.

[joepepsi]

Yeah, he's probably a Type A agent.

 

This may be a bad trade in the long run, but if the Cardinals win the division and/or make it to the series, the fans won't care. Not saying Melvin should do a similar move, just pointing out that winning now is often a good strategy from a typical fans' perspective.

[rotoherb]

Wallace is a good player, but if he can't handle third base, and it appears that the Cardinals don't think he can, then he'll have to play first base. A firstbaseman with a .450 SLG pct doesn't really excite me much. Daric Barton is just a year older than Wallace and as far as firstbasemen go, their production is quite similar.

 

Wallace at AAA this season: .293/.346/.423

Barton at AAA this season: .261/.386/.458

 

The funny part is that both guys were traded from St. Louis to Oakland. The A's really better hope that he can play a respectable third base for a number of years.

[raven2479]

MLB Home Plate on XM just reported that the trade went through.

 

Stl gets Holliday

Oak gets Wallace, Shane Peterson, and Clayton Mortenson

 

Edit: add the link to mlbtraderumors: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/cards-close-to-deal-for-holliday.html

[nate82]

Wallace is a good player, but if he can't handle third base, and it appears that the Cardinals don't think he can, then he'll have to play first base. A firstbaseman with a .450 SLG pct doesn't really excite me much. Daric Barton is just a year older than Wallace and as far as firstbasemen go, their production is quite similar.

 

Wallace at AAA this season: .293/.346/.423

Barton at AAA this season: .261/.386/.458

 

The funny part is that both guys were traded from St. Louis to Oakland. The A's really better hope that he can play a respectable third base for a number of years.

Wallace has only been in the Cardinals system for one year and is already in AAA. He will only be 23 yrs old after this season so he has a lot of time yet before he reaches his peak. Wallace is in the same tier as Gamel in terms of being a prospect. Wallace also has a very nice OPS of 769 and had an OPS of 840 in AA this year it is safe to assume that Wallace will develop some power more power and his slugging will increase. Barton is a year older than Wallace also.

[wallus]

How does this trade compare to what the A's gave up to the Rockies to get Holliday?

[rotoherb]

Wallace is a good player, but if he can't handle third base, and it appears that the Cardinals don't think he can, then he'll have to play first base. A firstbaseman with a .450 SLG pct doesn't really excite me much. Daric Barton is just a year older than Wallace and as far as firstbasemen go, their production is quite similar.

 

Wallace at AAA this season: .293/.346/.423

Barton at AAA this season: .261/.386/.458

 

The funny part is that both guys were traded from St. Louis to Oakland. The A's really better hope that he can play a respectable third base for a number of years.

Wallace has only been in the Cardinals system for one year and is already in AAA. He will only be 23 yrs old after this season so he has a lot of time yet before he reaches his peak. Wallace is in the same tier as Gamel in terms of being a prospect. Wallace also has a very nice OPS of 769 and had an OPS of 840 in AA this year it is safe to assume that Wallace will develop some power more power and his slugging will increase. Barton is a year older than Wallace also.

Barton also hit .293/..389/.438 at AAA at the age of 21 in 2007, a full year younger than Wallace is right now. My point is that a 22 or 23-year-old first baseman slugging .450 at AAA isn't all that great, and it's not much different than what the A's currently have. If he can't handle playing third base then he's most like an average major leaguer offensively at that position.

 

Just curious, but why is it safe to say that Wallace will develop more power? He turns 23 in a month and I haven't seen any scouting reports on him that say he's more than a 15-20 HR guy.

[owbc]

The Cardinals have improved, but I still consider the Cubs to be the division favorites.

[endaround]

Assuming Glause comes back, they'll have

 

Rasmus

DeRosa

Pujols

Halladay

Ludwick

Glaus

Molina

Lugo/Schumaker/Ryan

 

Damn, looks like Tony wont have to mess around with the pitcher batting 8th anymore.

 

Glaus can't play 3B, he can't make throws across his body. He's a PH only since LaRussa nixed allowing Pujols to go back to 3B

[TooLiveBrew]

Fangraphs had the CC deal as even for both sides. They had the Cards deal as the Cards giving up $25m to get $8m in value. That was just for Wallace, before other players were added.

WOW. Thank you, Cardinals front office.

 

Still, Holliday has always *appeared* to be a very tough out to me. Just seems like what people describe when they talk about a "pure hitter" (short of a legendary one like Pujols, of course).

[Never Outhustled]

Assuming Glause comes back, they'll have

 

Rasmus

DeRosa

Pujols

Halladay

Ludwick

Glaus

Molina

Lugo/Schumaker/Ryan

That does look like a good lineup, but thats in part because you included 4 OFs. Glaus has been playing LF in AAA during rehab. I don't think there confident he can still play 3B.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

Assuming Glause comes back, they'll have

 

Rasmus

DeRosa

Pujols

Halladay

Ludwick

Glaus

Molina

Lugo/Schumaker/Ryan

That does look like a good lineup, but thats in part because you included 4 OFs. Glaus has been playing LF in AAA during rehab. I don't think there confident he can still play 3B.

 

Even if you put Schumaker at 2B and leadoff and Lugo or Ryan at the 8 spot, its still a hell of a lineup.

 

The majority of the media however is praising the A's for this deal. I suppose they could be right. Even if the Cards intend on extending Holliday, this is a Scott Boaras guy, and you know hes going to want to shop him to his usual suspects-Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Mariners during the offseason, and one if them is bound to outbid the Cardinals.

[Thurston Fluff]

The Cardinals aren't exactly the weak sisters of the poor. They can afford to make a competitive offer. He is good but he isn't in the same category as CC or Teixeira.

[LouisEly]

I think at this point we just go with the guys we have. Yeah, we probably won't make the playoffs, but realistically we're not going to be making the playoffs every year. Most of the bandwagon fans were spoiled by last year and think it's always going to be like that. Come back strong next year and make another run, and we keep our young guys to either replace traded guys or to use in a better deal next season.

 

Yep, agreed. Go with what you have, but no fire sale either. They are still within a hot streak and plenty of time left, and you never know. If Zambrano and Harden get hurt (quite possible), and Carpenter and Piniero get hurt (quite possible), the Brewers could be one good homestand away from being back in contention. If one of Dillard or Cody can take Burns' place and at least be replacement-level/average starter, and Parra continue his recent trend, they could very well still have a shot.

[pretendastronaut]

Assuming Glause comes back, they'll have

 

Rasmus

DeRosa

Pujols

Halladay

Ludwick

Glaus

Molina

Lugo/Schumaker/Ryan

 

Damn, looks like Tony wont have to mess around with the pitcher batting 8th anymore.

 

No, but they would have Roy Halladay batting forth. Not quite the protection Pujols was looking for I doubt.

[crewcrazy]

The Cardinals aren't exactly the weak sisters of the poor. They can afford to make a competitive offer. He is good but he isn't in the same category as CC or Teixeira.

True, and I believe they have some contracts coming off the books, too. Still, if a desperate big market team with a need in the outfield (like say, the Mets) comes along and offers the Holliday/Boras combo a ridiculous deal, the Cards could get outbid. In the case of the Mets giving him a huge deal, it might doubly screw up the Cards' plans since the Mets seem likely to finish in the bottom half of the league and have their first rounder protected.

 

In the short-term, though, I guess I can't fault the Cardinals for trying to capitalize on what might be Pujols' career year if he continues at this pace. He's probably only got a few more prime seasons left, so they might as well try to win while they can. Even if the Cards think Wallace will end up being a stud someday, they probably couldn't afford to wait for him to fully develop.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

They can re-sign Holliday after the season, but it will be a market offer. No different than before the trade.

 

Hefty price for a rental, but they really do need a bat. I do think the moves they have made put them in the drivers seat for the division. Wallace may have been blocked if they didn't see him sticking at 3B.

 

A big difference between this and our dealing LaPorta last year was our system was deeper. We had some extra position prospects that they don't have. For a system short on bats, they'll still have to step up and spend a lot of money that they may or may not have after this year to keep it going.

[nate82]

The Cardinals are going to be competing with the Yankees and the Mets for Holliday in the offseason. As has been stated before Holliday would like to play for the Yankees. The Yankees will have Matsui and Damon becoming free agents and it looks as though the Yankees don't really want to keep Damon I'm not sure on Matsui though. That leaves a spot open in the OF and a DH spot if the Yankees don't resign both Damon and Matsui.

 

Damon is probably gone and Holliday would be the perfect replacement for them. Then you have the Mets who need another OF I don't believe they will be happy with Francouer taking one of their corner outfield spots everyday plus they have the aging Delgado who maybe done that leaves a big hole for them to fill.

 

The price for Holliday maybe out of reach for the Cardinals next year. Thats why I don't see this as a good trade for the Cardinals especially how much talent they gave away to get Holliday.

[molitor fan]

My secondary point is that I think it is a good short term deal for the Cards...they needed this to keep up in the division I think. My primary thought is that I love the name Clayton Mortensen from a sports standpoint...would an equivilent football name be Buster Gammons?

[JoeHova]

The Mets are supposedly broke (relatively) because their idiot owners lost half a billion to Bernie Madoff. I'm not sure they will be in the mix for any premium free agents next off-season.

[endaround]

Detroit is about to jetison Ordonez.