Why Do Some Want to Fire Melvin?

[NievesNoNO]

5.5 million for depth in the rotation next year?

 

Even if we make a trade?

 

Yes, please.

Absolutely! I agree. In fact that's a steal. For those of you who think the Brewers season hinges on whether or not we bring back Looper, who do you suggest Doug invests that money into? If your premise is something along the lines of we shouldn't renew Cameron, Kendal, Looper, Bush, or Weathers and back up the truck for Lackey then I can see where you're coming from. But if the arguement is we can use his 5 mil. towards trying to get somebody like Jerrod Washburn I don't really see how that helps us.

[Invader3K]

No, it's not a steal. Looper is bad. The Brewers don't appear to have much payroll flexibility. Why spend money on someone who is likely going to steal most of it by pitching bad? Shouldn't we expect a bit more than one playoff game win after all these years of "rebuilding?"

 

Is "It's not my money!" suddenly the mantra around here?

[Never Outhustled]

Looper has never been 1.8 WAR in his career and he's 35. He's terrible, he never should have been signed, and he will only get worse. Doug Melvin has absolutly no understanding of pitching, and thats why he's fielding a bad team. Pitching is all about finding guys with upside, Looper has none.

 

 

The Brewers should pool there money together for someone who at least has a chance to be good, like Tim Hudson. Hudson has only made 5 starts this year, yet is still worth more WAR than each of Looper, Bush, and Suppan. Hudson would give us a guy who would at least have a chance to be 4 WAR. Hudson, combined with any scrub, like Mike Burns, would be more WAR than Bush and Looper combined, for the same money.

[Invader3K]

I agreed with the signing of Looper at the time (after all, there was no one better, right?), but to stick with him after such a bad season is ridiculous. We need to demand better of our team. To repeat the same thing that fails and expecting a different result is the definition of madness.

 

There's a pretty nice article in the latest SI about the Detroit Tigers, and it really got to me...their owner spent a lot of money (5th highest payroll in MLB) even when faced with a terrible local economy. I realize Milwaukee is smaller than Detroit, but maybe it's time for the Brewers to dig deep and field a real winning team for a year or two, not just a great offense with a dime store rotation.

[NievesNoNO]

O.K so maybe calling Looper a steal was a little much. I agree, we should expect more. He does have some value though and 5 mil. per year isn't a bad rate. The problem is Looper, Suppan and Bush are basically the same pitcher with Bush being slightly better. When that's 60% of your starting staff, that's not good. I think he fits fine as a back end starter or long reliever/spot starter. If we can improve our team by not spending the 5 million on him then great go for it. Even if Doug cut loose all our pricy veterans this summer and didn't spend it this year, but said they were going to use it as a savings account to sign Prince in a few years I'd be O.K. with that. This will be an interesting off-season for sure. Doug has some work to do and tough decisions to make.

[trwi7]

He does have some value though and 5 mil. per year isn't a bad rate.

Yes it is. His ERA last year was a full run lower and he couldn't even get $5M.

 

I'd much rather go after a Smoltz, Bedard, Sheets or Penny with Looper's money plus some of the other money we have to spend. It's obviously riskier, but it's better than keeping the status quo.

[sgtcluels]

Looper is not a below replacement level pitcher. I mean if you are judging him by ERA he is above replacement level, if you are using peripherals he is above replacement level. The only stat I can find that puts him below replacement level is WAR and for pitchers that stat is just horrible.

WAR, RAR, TRA+, ERA+ all point to bad news bears.

[rluzinski]

The Brewers should pool there money together for someone who at least has a chance to be good, like Tim Hudson. Hudson has only made 5 starts this year, yet is still worth more WAR than each of Looper, Bush, and Suppan.

 

What kind of contract do you think he's going to get?

[trwi7]

What kind of contract do you think he's going to get?

Well the Braves have a $12M option on him. I have no idea if they intend to pick it up, but I can't see him getting more than 2 years at $10M per year if he hits free agency. And I'd much rather spend Looper's $5.5M plus some of our other money on Hudson.

[Never Outhustled]

What kind of contract do you think he's going to get?

I wouldn't let him find out. I'd deal weathers for him. The Braves could then buyout Weathers for $500 K instead of Hudson for $ 1 million. I'd pick up the option on Hudson. Then we avoid trhe risk of a multi-year deal. Hudson will get a very big deal in the open market. Oliver Perez got 3 years $36 million last year, and he's never been 5 WAR. Hudson has 4 times. Hudson will do well.

[bklynbrewcrew]

The funniest thing about all of this is that if Looper was 7-13 instead of 13-7 with the same statistics there would be no discussion about bringing him back. So Melvin is essentially going to pick up the option because of strong run support. If that doesnt scream incompetence I dont know what does.

[endaround]

No he's likely thinking about bringing him back because he made all his starts more than his record

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Doug's always put a priority on finding "dependable" pitchers, which is one of the reasons they signed Suppan. The injury problems in the rotation this season have no doubt increased his sensitivity to the issue. I think it's only natural he will want to bring back the guy who's likely to have led the team in innings pitched.

[joepepsi]

I'm OK with bringing him back as long as it's not an excuse to stop searching for better starting pitching. Kendall, Hardy, and Cameron are making $19.75 million this year. Set those 3 free and you are saving a substantial amount from the 2010 payroll. Something on the order of 20%. Another $20 million falls off the books after next season when Suppan and Hall are gone. So even after signing Looper and accounting for arbitration increases, the Brewers can still have a substantial amount of money for a quality arm.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Melvin needs to start thinking more about quality of innings along with quantity. Its about time we stopped spending money on garbage and spent it on good players. Assuming Looper comes back the Brewers will be spending more than 25 million on Looper, Suppan, and Hall. That is poor money management anyway you slice it. My theory has always been spend on quality or not at all. Paying the likes of Suppan and Looper big money is insane.

[sheethead]

5.5 million for depth in the rotation next year?

 

The only depth I see Looper bringing is how much further he can bring down the sinking rotation. Looper is done, its fairly obvious he is terrible. To pay him another $5.5MM to be terrible again next year does not add pitching depth, it just adds another crummy pitcher for $5.5MM.

[MJLiverock]

The defense of the Bush Suppan and Looper triumvant of them each not being the worst pitcher in baseball or not quite below replacement level is one of my problems with the rotation. Sure each isn't the worst pitcher in the league but having 3 guys of that caliber in the rotation is not good. I don't want a team built of "well he's not the worst guy at his position". That is not a recipe for success that is a recipe for mediocrity or worse. That's how teams like the Royals and Pirates flounder around paying money for veterans so they can look like they are doing something but in reality being really inefficent with their payroll.

 

I think the Brewers would be better off using the 5th spot in the rotation for someone like Narveson, Butler, or whomever comes out of spring training. The likely description of said player will be the same, and the step down in actual results will be negligible if any. The team is stuck with Suppan for another year, Bush is cheap and of the three the only one who may be better than actual results this year, leaving Looper as the odd man out. Take his $5MM and add it to the money pile to pay for someone who is traded for or signed that may cost some money but may actually be better than average not just a guy who "isn't the worst pitcher in the league".

[sheethead]

Isn't Parra the worst pitcher in the league this year? He's gotta be pretty close, so there are 4, FOUR, guys in the rotation that are vying for the worst pitcher in the league this year. How in the world can any team be successful with that starting rotation?

[joepepsi]

I hope Parra has to win a starting job in Spring Training 2010 and isn't guaranteed a spot.

[Invader3K]

That's a point that keeps getting overlooked again and again as well, sheethead.

 

Honestly, I'm a bit perplexed and to be honest, somewhat disappointed, by a lot of the opinions being expressed here. Do most people just expect this team to have a losing record again next season? Because if we bring back the same rotation again next season, that is the only result that can be realistically expected. If that is the case, they may as well trade Fielder for young prospects and shed as much payroll as possible. The fan base will not and should not accept that, though.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Melvin has spoken too much about how losing Bush and Suppan to injury has killed this teams chances. Does he not yet recognize that Suppan is awful and Bush is avaerage at best. He has been acting like we lost Lincecum and Cain to injury and not the guys that we did lose. He has proven time and time again in Texas as well as Milwaukee that he is incapable of putting together a top flight pitching staff.

 

As for Looper I truly believe that if he was 7-13 instead of 13-7 with the same statistics we wouldnt even be discussing his possible return.

[rluzinski]

I would be surprised if the Braves didn't pick up Hudson's option. I would also be surprised if Hudson didn't void the option and test free agency. But he'll be 34 and a significant injury risk though, so perhaps 2/$25 would do it. Looper's money could pay 20% of it, I guess.

 

My point is, Looper isn't even average but $5 mil get's you nothing in this league. Chump change. That's almost utility infielder type money. I hope they have a better option than Looper at $5.5 mil but I'm not sure they will. Either way, I don't think it's going to determine whether the Brewers can get their hands on a sub 4 ER starting pitcher.

[Invader3K]

Well, that's the point. Why is it they're forced to pay a bad pitcher $6.5 million to be bad. Why not pool that money with some other funds and get someone, you know, good? Is it really that impossible to find anyone better at all? Maybe they're hoping to blow out Gallardo's arm next season with all the innings he'll have to carry again.

[giffted1]

That's a point that keeps getting overlooked again and again as well, sheethead.

 

Honestly, I'm a bit perplexed and to be honest, somewhat disappointed, by a lot of the opinions being expressed here. Do most people just expect this team to have a losing record again next season? Because if we bring back the same rotation again next season, that is the only result that can be realistically expected. If that is the case, they may as well trade Fielder for young prospects and shed as much payroll as possible. The fan base will not and should not accept that, though.

Why must some equate bringing back Looper to having the same rotation next year? Even if we are able to add a solid starter this off season, we still have to address the issue of depth in our rotation. As previously mentioned $5.5 mil certainly isn't an outrageous amount for Looper's services.

Well, that's the point. Why is it they're forced to pay a bad pitcher $6.5 million to be bad. Why not pool that money with some other funds and get someone, you know, good?

Because a pitcher who will be an actual difference maker is going to command more than just a pool of money taken from small contracts. Pretty much every team could use another good starter. All that money will get you is an average starter or an injury waiting to happen.

[trwi7]

Even if we are able to add a solid starter this off season, we still have to address the issue of depth in our rotation.

With some of our prospects ascending through the system, there's no need to pay $5.5M for Looper or any other pitcher as "depth." With Butler, Rivas, Rogers and hopefully Narveson, maybe Capuano as well being in AA or higher at the start of next season, if we need another starter I'd much rather use one of our young guys.