Why Do Some Want to Fire Melvin?

[Invader3K]

As far as Attanasio, he'll have to decide soon if he wants the team to make a push to be excellent, or if he's content with just being OK like the team is right now. I would think spending a bit more in the next year or two would pay off in the long run.

[jeffy]

The Brewer's philosophy has been "draft the best available player, regardless of the team's needs". This is fine, but when nearly all the surviving "best availables" turn out to be position players, you then need to move some of the excess to aquire what is missing. That is where the failure seems to have occured. This failure has to be the responsibility of either Melvin or the ownership (allowing for the possibilty that, for example, Mark A thought JJ was too cute or had a too cool name to trade or something).

[Invader3K]

I don't know if there's any real evidence that Attanasio has blocked any trades.

 

It does seem there has been a deficiency in flipping position players for pitching. The LaPorta trade seems to have been the one exception, and of course that was for a rental.

[jeffy]

I don't know if there's any real evidence that Attanasio has blocked any trades.

I certainly don't know either, just meant if the fault does not lie with Melvin it would lie higher up.

 

There does seem to be some evidence of "meddling" by Mark A, he seemed to be hot to get Suppan and was possibly the force behind the oddly timed firing of Yost.

[The Truth]

I pretty much agree with everything you are saying, TheCrew07, however I liked the Overbay trade. Bush is precisely the type of pitcher (if we got an MLB pitcher as opposed to a minor league arm) I would have wanted the Brewers to trade Hart, Hall and Hardy for. Just imagine a rotation of Gallardo, 3 Dave Bush's, and a bigtime MLB free-agent pitcher that we could afford if we didn't waste money on Suppan/Hall/Cameron...And we received a good young arm in Butler for Gross

 

A small market team needs to turn over its talent much more frequently than Melvin seems to realize

[snyttri]

There does seem to be some evidence of "meddling" by Mark A, he seemed to be hot to get Suppan...

 

Attanasio waged a charm offensive to get Suppan to sign the first big FA deal of his new ownership but if the talent evaluators had told him to convince Gil Meche or someone else to sign he might have done the same for them.

[Invader3K]

Well, I think if Melvin had thought Suppan was such a horrible idea, he could have convinced Attanasio. At the time, though, the Brewers were coming off a season where Sheets and Ohka had both been on the DL for significant lengths of time, and we had guys like Wes Obermueller starting. It made sense to do the signing at the time, though in retrospect it's obvious they probably should have gone for someone cheaper, despite the "durability" issue.

[DougJones43]

Any opinion changes over the past couple of weeks?

 

The one thing that really seems to have come to light is that the organization seems to be lacking any kind of direction. They're not winning now, but also aren't really playing for the future. Gamel's not playing. Escobar played briefly, but then Hardy comes back immediately on Sept. 1 (after no improvement to his stroke at AAA) and starts playing most of the time. Corey Patterson is signed, called up, and is not only seeing time, he is starting --- and hitting leadoff. Macha seems to be a lame duck after less than a year. Are we going to have to change managers again?

 

What the heck is the strategy/direction of this organization?

[joepepsi]

DJ43, these points you just brought are really frustrating me. Any time an organization chooses veteran gamer over talent, particularly when it's September and they are out of it, they are choosing a loser strategy. It's inexcusable.

[logan82]

As of right now, this is just a down year. If we are bad again next year, that would be a trend and would give some credence to considering a new GM.

[owbc]

I am also frustrated by the lineups on a daily basis and I agree that there appears to be no plan or direction now that the Brewers have fallen out of the race. Obviously, the initial plan was to win this year, but there appears to be no "Plan B" for what to do now. My concern isn't really about losing games, I'm a Brewers fan, I can handle it. What I do not like is the number of questionable personnel decisions that could have a negative impact in 2010 and beyond. The first issue was Yovani Gallardo's pitch counts this year. Then they let Gamel sit on the bench. Now we have Escobar sitting on the bench and Corey Patterson getting starts. Kendall continues to play even though it would be nice to see what Rivera can do on a consistent basis. The most annoying part is that a lineup with Escobar, Gamel, and Rivera probably has a better chance of winning than the current lineups, it isn't even like they would be giving up (which is what I think they are afraid of implying). That said, I don't know who is to blame and I can't call for Melvin's head yet. I'm willing to give him the offseason to turn things around. There are a number of important moves that have to be made by someone and I trust his knowledge of the ballclub over some new face.

[TooLiveBrew]

I agree with logan -- this is one season. But the recent comments from Melvin that indicated he sees nothing wrong with wasting Gamel's & Escobar's service time really, really concern me. I've blamed Macha pretty extensively, esp. in regards to Gamel, but it sounds like the approach with both of these top prospects is a-ok with Doug. That's bad.

[brewmann04]

we will see major moves for 2010 Possible from The front office down through the Roster

[logan82]

But the recent comments from Melvin that indicated he sees nothing wrong with wasting Gamel's & Escobar's service time really, really concern me.

 

The time Gamel and Escobar spent in the majors this year really shouldn't impact their service time much if at all if both start the season in the majors next year. They both already had a month of service time from 2008 and they didn't acquire enough to effect their service time unless the plan is to leave them down another year. If that is the case then we now have to leave both down about half a year instead of just over a month. There would have been a huge benefit if we had been able to pick up a temp SS or 3B solution and gain an extra year for either. It seems like the intention was for both to start for the Brewers from the start of the 2010 season at the latest.

 

The really troubling thing in my mind may be the hints of McGehee being preferred over Gamel at 3B next year. However, that could all be more posturing for a trade by Melvin.

[TooLiveBrew]

The time Gamel and Escobar spent in the majors this year really shouldn't impact their service time much if at all if both start the season in the majors next year. They both already had a month of service time from 2008 and they didn't acquire enough to effect their service time unless the plan is to leave them down another year.

 

It's not really that they're up -- it's that they're up & not playing on a regular basis (or for Mat, at all).

 

 

The really troubling thing in my mind may be the hints of McGehee being preferred over Gamel at 3B next year. However, that could all be more posturing for a trade by Melvin.

 

Yeah, I agree on the first sentence. I did feel comfortable assuming it was just posturing... until Melvin's recent comments. Now I'm a bit concerned.

[logan82]

It's not really that they're up -- it's that they're up & not playing on a regular basis (or for Mat, at all).

 

I hate Gamel and Escobar being up and not the regular starters. Unless Melvin intends to get rid of Macha, I don't think it would do any good to tell him how to manage or do anything publicly except support Macha's decisions. I think Melvin made a bad decision hiring Macha. Macha and Melvin may not agree on the evaluation of players. We will know by the start of next year.

 

 

I did feel comfortable assuming it was just posturing... until Melvin's recent comments. Now I'm a bit concerned.

 

We have seen repeatedly in the past that word and action are not the same with Melvin. I am willing to wait and see what happens.

[joepepsi]

This could be a very different team next season. I don't think Doug will trade Prince, Braun, or Yo, but everyone else could (and probably should) be on the table for discussion. If the focus is on finding long term starting pitching, you have to figure any the but Big 3 will be offered up for evaluation.

[Invader3K]

He definitely has to get aggressive if he wants to keep his job beyond next season. It's clear that the makeup of the team is flawed, and no one but the three you mentioned should really be off the table at this point. I do hope Gamel and Escobar do not get traded, because they are both young and cheap, but if they need to be traded to significantly improve the team, so be it.

[joepepsi]

It's clear that the makeup of the team is flawed, and no one but the three you mentioned should really be off the table at this point.

The idea of a flawed team occurred to me last summer. Braun, Fielder, Cameron, Hardy, 31 starts from Sheets, 17 from CC, 4.18 ERA from Bush, 4.39 from Parra, and the best this team could do was 90 wins?

 

It seems the upside for this core talent, when everything goes right, is about 90 wins tops. I want a team that, if everything goes right, wins 95-100 games.

[Postseason2006]

The Brewers are all but left for dead yet not playing Escobar and Gamel continually is more than mind boggling along with watching Kendall playing so poorly. Has Terry Ryan sent his resume to the Brewers yet?

[Invader3K]

I wonder if Macha is being pressured by Melvin or others to rack up as many wins as possible yet so the record doesn't look so bad at the end of the season. Though really, is there a big difference between 75 wins and 80 wins or so? I don't think the fans will care.

 

Really, such pressure from above is the only justification I can see for him refusing to play the younger guys. Either way, I think it's time to move on to someone with a different managerial philosophy. I don't think his "style" fits this team.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Invader, I would see some truth in this if Macha wasnt insistent on sitting the young guys all year. His comment about Melvin putting him in a "zim zam" when Gamel was recalled tells me all I need to know about Macha as a manager. He just doesnt like playing the young guys and that is the biggest reason why he shouldnt be managing this team.

 

Melvin as the GM should be forcing Macha to play Gamel and Escobar at this point. There is nothing to be gained by winning 80 versus 75.

[hawing]

Melvin as the GM should be forcing Macha to play Gamel and Escobar at this point. There is nothing to be gained by winning 80 versus 75.

It's not like the Brewers are skyrocketing toward 80 wins with the current play-the-veterans strategy. They would have to go 13-5 the rest of the way.

[valpocrewsader]

I'm surprised to see back to back posters even mention 80 wins. That would require a team that's been playing .418 ball since the break to finish 11-7 against the Cubs, Rockies, Phillies, and Cardinals (and Astros). I just don't think it's close to realistic to imply that with veterans we'll crawl up around 80 wins but with the rookies it'll be more like 75. The truth is probably more like 77-75 with the veterans, 73-75 with the rookies.

 

I agree with the premise that it doesn't matter, though. In fact, moreso with my numbers. If there really were a shot at 80-81 wins, my heart might want to try to hit that.

[bklynbrewcrew]

To me once you are out of it the mindset of the organization needs to change. Instead of playing Counsell, Catalannatto and Kendall we need to be seeing Gamel and Escobar. This organization just doesnt seem to have a plan and that is extremely troublesome.