Why Do Some Want to Fire Melvin?

[Ayt]

This staff reminds me of the teams Melvin had in Texas where they had great offenses and no pitching.

I've been making that comparison myself lately. When Melvin left the Rangers, they had by far the worst pitching in baseball. The Rangers had the worst team ERA in 2000 at 5.52 (KC was at 5.48). The next year, his last, their ERA was a ridiculous 5.71, nearly half a run more than the Rockies at 5.29.

 

Right now, the Brewers have a team ERA 4.72 which is only better than the lowly Nats in the NL at 4.97. We are one Yovanni Gallardo injury away from overtaking them. Yo has an ERA of 3.08. The rest of the team has an ERA of 4.99. The next closest starter is Looper at 4.79.

 

With no help from the minors on the way for another few years (provided they don't flame out) and Melvin's track record when it comes to acquiring starting pitching either in the FA market or in trades, I'm not optimistic about what next year will look like. I certainly wouldn't expect Melvin to get anything special back in a JJ trade given JJ's play and his contract situation combined with my faith in Melvin.

[tigerbrew]

Just my little vent about DM.

 

I remember during preseason reading many pundits predict that the Brewers will not make the playoffs due to starting pitching. Many of these pundits were unbias, but even some brewers fans were also concerned about the SP.

 

I think the SP thing is a legitimate concern so it's kinda disappointing that DM didn't do more to improve the SP during preseason. During that time, DM's thinking was that due to the recession some teams may offload their good but expensive players rather cheaply trade-wise later on, he also seems to think that our offense can carry us through. Unfortunately, things didn't work the way DM had envisioned and we are now in a bind as a result. I think DM deserves blame and should be accountable for this plight. But it's not over yet, I really hope and pray for the team to turn this thing around.

[MNBrew]

I think the SP thing is a legitimate concern so it's kinda disappointing that DM didn't do more to improve the SP during preseason. During that time, DM's thinking was that due to the recession some teams may offload their good but expensive players rather cheaply trade-wise later on, he also seems to think that our offense can carry us through. Unfortunately, things didn't work the way DM had envisioned and we are now in a bind as a result. I think DM deserves blame and should be accountable for this plight. But it's not over yet, I really hope and pray for the team to turn this thing around.

I agree with you that it's hardly over yet. A May-like stretch could happen again (though it would seem more like a miracle at this point).

 

But I disagree with your main point. I think Melvin did all he could -- both now and back in the winter -- without doing something most would consider foolish in the long run:

 

1. The "bare cupboard" situation re: upper level prospects not named Escobar or Gamel, combined with the serious dearth of real pitching prospects above A-ball, was foreseen last year and has turned out as projected. You can only do so much when you have limited resources & assets.

 

2. Just because you have money to spend doesn't make you everyone's desired destination. You can't MAKE good FAs come play for your team. Melvin was out there working hard to land good pitching. The Brewers just lost out. And it happened right after their first playoff appearance in a quarter of a century -- which, along with plenty of young talent, theoretically should help you appear to be a strong team now and in the next few years. The factors were there. The Brewers just lost out. That's not Doug Melvin's fault.

[TooLiveBrew]

Just like it's not his fault that all 3 of the Brewers' SP targets early in the season went down with injuries on the same day. Yet the fact that Melvin played to stay ahead of this kind of frenzy & additionally get more starts out of those pitchers earns him no credit.

 

I am glad he didn't overpay to take this team from 82 wins to 84 wins or whatever.

[logan82]

I am glad he didn't overpay to take this team from 82 wins to 84 wins or whatever.

 

I really think this is the most important point. Even Halladay would likely have been a 2 win improvement at most unless he was acquired in early July. We are in a pretty similar position to where the Astros were last year. Close enough to think we are in it, but realistically pretty far back and behind a lot of teams. The Astros gave up prospects to miss out on the playoffs.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

Look, I'm a huge Brewer fan. And having been one for many years I may tend to have the "what is going to go wrong next" attitude. But whether you're more positive or negative, if you objectively look at this year at this point, they just don't have enough to make the playoffs. Competing with Cubs, Cards, or even the Giants seems very unlikely. I have to believe DM can see that as well. If that's the case, and everybody can see that, why didn't he sell expiring contracts to get something?

 

IMO doing nothing was better than giving up prospects for a rental, but selling would of been better than doing nothing.

[Mr QL]

I think it was the right move not to do anything stupid at the deadline and trade away a big time prospect for some rental but I think we should start exploring other options at GM after the season. I just don't think Melvin take us any further than he has with his team philosophy. He was the GM that brought us back to respectability and he deserves credit for that(not all of it) but it comes a time just as it was with Yost that you need to move forward. Unfortunately for us we don't have a GM in waiting anymore with Jack Z gone. I'm not as knowledgeable as some of you guys so what options do we have out there if we were to go in this direction?

[bklynbrewcrew]

As far as Im concerned this year is shot. I realize we wont make the playoffs every year but the long term pitching situation is very scary and one really has to wonder if Melvin is the man to fix it. Like I have pointed out before Melvin has just not done a very good job in putting together good pitching staffs. His tendency to like pitchers with average to below average stuff is killing us. His staffs in Texas featured the likes of Helling, Sele and Burkett who all had stuff similar to Suppan and Looper. Besides bringing in CC for half a year and drafting Gallardo and Parra what power arms has Melvin brought in? Even at this trading deadline we were looking at the likes of Brian Bannister who is another guy who cant break glass with his fastball.

 

As frustrating as the season has gotten I could accept it if I saw a better long range plan for fixing the pitching. Melvin has done a great job finding offense now his job is to find good, young power arms. Holding onto JJ and Corey one year too long has really hurt us.

[Baldkin]

Young power arms like McClung and De La Rosa... or do they not count because they could never throw strikes?

 

He's brought high ceiling guys in. He's been unlucky in how they've panned out. Guys like Santana, Liriano and King Felix aren't just out there to be had by trading Bill Hall.

[trwi7]

We brought in McClung when he was 26. Not exactly young anymore. And we traded JDLR for Tony Graffanino. Not exactly impressive.

[dlk9s]

why didn't he sell expiring contracts to get something?

 

IMO doing nothing was better than giving up prospects for a rental, but selling would of been better than doing nothing.

What would Melvin be able to get for some of the guys you are talking about (Cameron, Hoffman, Kendall, Counsell)? The objective in "selling" is to get pieces that will help you in the future. Could Melvin really get players for those guys that would truly help the Brewers within the next couple years? I doubt it.

[PeaveyFury]

And we traded JDLR for Tony Graffanino. Not exactly impressive.

 

But he was brought in for Sexson and didn't pan out. That was his point.

[trwi7]

But he was brought in for Sexson and didn't pan out. That was his point.

 

And then he gave up on a young, hard throwing lefty for a utility infielder, which was my point.

[PeaveyFury]

And then he gave up on a young, hard throwing lefty

 

...who is finally putting up his first truly good season four seasons later.

[TheCrew07]

McClung was brought in as a reliever and they tried converting him back out of necessity. De La Rosa was brought in back in 2003... he acquired 1 young starter with serious upside in his entire tenure as GM. He not unlucky, he's been inactive, especially considering the organization's history developing pitchers. Maybe he thought Capellan was going to be that kind of guy and got swindled badly, I have no idea. I find it hard to believe he thought he was getting a top of the rotation starter for Kolb though, and in hindsight we should have known better as fans.

 

I also have a seriously hard time understanding where people are coming from who think the Brewers can stretch the payroll further. Milwaukee/Wisconsin has stretched the payroll as far as it's going to go. Attendance was already very high, so the usual playoff boost in attendance wasn't going to have the same economic impact here. Short of the team finding a significant sponsor willing to pay double digit millions to be part of the Brewer experience, where is this extra revenue going to come from? Do people expect Mark A. to kick in his own money? If so... why? Who operates a business that way?

[bklynbrewcrew]

I dont consider McClung a young power arm with upside. He had already shown with Tampa that he had absolutely no ability to throw strikes and that was not gonna change. JDLR did have that kind of potential when we traded for him but it just didnt work out. Melvin too often has placed his bets on the Burketts and Suppans of the world; strike throwers with very little upside and guys that are just not good enough to lead a staff.

 

I really believe Melvin missed the boat on trading Hardy and Hart and now the value of both of them is down in the dumps. The only way we will get the type of power arms we need is to trade Escobar and or Gamel. If we had traded Hart and or Hardy before this season we wouldnt be in this position. Melvin's continued insistance on counting on pitchers without significant upside is a flaw in his talent evaluation.

[PeaveyFury]

Melvin too often has placed his bets on the Burketts and Suppans of the world; strike throwers with very little upside and guys that are just not good enough to lead a staff.

 

But they weren't being counted on to lead a staff, they were being counted on to fill in a staff.... that's a huge difference.

[trwi7]

But they weren't being counted on to lead a staff, they were being counted on to fill in a staff.... that's a huge difference.

 

Yeah, instead he's counting on a 23 year old who pitched a little over 30 innings last year to lead a staff.

[jeffy]

If we had traded Hart and or Hardy before this season we wouldnt be in this position.

 

There seems to be almost an emotional attachment to this group of players that includes those two and it seems to go all the way to Mark A. While it is real sweet that these guys all played together through the minors and all came up together, this is not little league and if good pitching (which everyone knew we were short of) was available for one of those guys, it was a big mistake to not go for it.

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah, instead he's counting on a 23 year old who pitched a little over 30 innings last year to lead a staff.

 

And Yo's 3.13 ERA in 135 innings so far has been a problem?

[trwi7]

And Yo's 3.13 ERA in 135 innings so far has been a problem?

 

I think there's a pretty good chance his workload this year becomes a future problem.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Part of being a good GM is knowing when to trade guys away. Melvin should have known that the offense was in good shape but that our pitching was in shambles so holding onto Hardy and Hart was foolish. It seems that Melvin has no intention of trading Escobar so signing Hardy is out of the question. With that in mind Melvin should have traded Hardy last offseason and signed a stop gap guy like an Everett or Vizquel to hold the spot till Escobar is ready. As far as Hart is concerned outfielders are the easiest guys to find so trading a young player like Hart to a team like San Francisco was the thing to do. Heck we might have been able to trade both Hardy and Hart to Boston for Buchholz or San Fran for Bumgarner who could be a star. Instead we are stuck with two guys whose values have dropped dramatically and our need for pitching is greater than ever.

 

Look I still believe in Melvin somewhat but I fear he is gonna be fleeced at some point this next offseason because we are that desperate for frontline starting pitching. I would hate to have to see us trade Escobar and Gamel next offseason because we held onto Hardy and Hart one season too long.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

What would Melvin be able to get for some of the guys you are talking about (Cameron, Hoffman, Kendall, Counsell)? The objective in "selling" is to get pieces that will help you in the future. Could Melvin really get players for those guys that would truly help the Brewers within the next couple years? I doubt it.

Maybe they could have acquired someone like a Scott Barnes from SF for a Cameron. I'm not totally up to speed on MiLB, but apparently pitching at the lower levels don't have a ton of value unless it's really obvious their going to be studs. But I would have settled for the Anundsen, Rogers, or Braddock types if that would of been possible.

[logan82]

But I would have settled for the Anundsen, Rogers, or Braddock types if that would of been possible.

 

Trading Cameron for a guy like that makes little sense honestly. We get worse and probably lose out on any chance of resigning Cameron. We can pick up a guy like that with the sandwich pick Cameron is likely to net after the season. Worst case scenario outside of an injury is Cameron comes back or we get a sandwich pick.

[tigerbrew]

Part of being a good GM is knowing when to trade guys away. Melvin should have known that the offense was in good shape but that our pitching was in shambles so holding onto Hardy and Hart was foolish. It seems that Melvin has no intention of trading Escobar so signing Hardy is out of the question. With that in mind Melvin should have traded Hardy last offseason and signed a stop gap guy like an Everett or Vizquel to hold the spot till Escobar is ready. As far as Hart is concerned outfielders are the easiest guys to find so trading a young player like Hart to a team like San Francisco was the thing to do. Heck we might have been able to trade both Hardy and Hart to Boston for Buchholz or San Fran for Bumgarner who could be a star. Instead we are stuck with two guys whose values have dropped dramatically and our need for pitching is greater than ever.

Yeah, Hardy's trade value was really high last offseason, we could've got a good SP for him but now we may have missed that opportunity.