Why Do Some Want to Fire Melvin?

[zzzmanwitz]

Why has there been so much ill will towards Doug Melvin lately? I am really curious? Didn't this guy just make the biggest trade in franchise history a year ago which brought the brewers to the playoffs for the first time in 26 years??? I really want to know what people expect of him. What would you have done differently?

 

Edit by cc: clarified thread title

[Hate those Rodents]

1) Gotten a better starter than Looper going into the season

2) Sold higher on at least one of Hardy/Hart

3) Dealt Cameron for Melky (saving 8-9 million) if that was needed to get a better/more expensive starter

 

That's about it though. Three is definitely debatable and I expect to be in the minority there. Two you don't know what was out there I guess. One, I think he could made a bigger splash but who knows.

 

I don't think he's done a horrible job though. Probably a B/C range. But this grade will change in a hurry for me either way in the coming days. This is a huge moment for Doug. He can't overpay for something that imho won't get us to the playoffs. He needs to be smart and know when to back away unless a great deal comes up. That doesn't mean we have to throw in the towel. The bounces could go our way with the current squad. Who knows? But if he bottoms out the system more for a pitcher that probably won't even get us to the playoffs, he is not the GM to take this team any further imho.

[Tailgat0r76]

1) Gotten a better starter than Looper going into the season We didn't have the $$$ to get much better than Looper supposedly

2) Sold higher on at least one of Hardy/Hart If Hart or Hardy were producing like they've shown to, this wouldn't be an issue

3) Dealt Cameron for Melky (saving 8-9 million) if that was needed to get a better/more expensive starter Weren't the Yankee's making us pay some of Cam-boogie's contract basically making it a financial wash?

[giffted1]

People need a scapegoat. With Yost gone and Macha's little time here, Melvin is the easy choice. The criticisms of him are almost always around these lines: acquire some pitcher we had no realistic chance at, trade some struggling player that no one could predict regressing, and spend money that we didn't have for a veteran bench.

[endaround]

The Brewers went after Lowe and he said no way. They went after Johnson and he wanted to stay out West.

[zzzmanwitz]

They offered CC Sabathia 20 Million dollars a year.

 

They also signed the all time saves leader, who happened to be an all star this year.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

- Money poorly spent. (26M to Soup, Hall, and Riske in 2010.)

 

- Traded several players and prospects and has nothing to show for it on today's roster. (Especially the Carlos Lee trade. Lee and Cruz for a year and a half rental of a closer)

 

- The state of pitching in the organization is abysmal at AAA and the major league level. (Mike Burns?)

 

- Gave up on certain players without ever giving them a shot. And we got little in return. (Balfour, Gwynn, Cruz, Eveland)

 

In short, I think Melvin is an average GM. I think his timing is pretty weak. For the number of good players we have had over the last 3 years, we should be a better position than we are. The question will be if our pitching is for real in the lower levels of the organization, can we peak at both pitching and hitting at the same time and really be a world series contender. I don't know if Melvin is good enough to make that happen. If we lose Fielder because of bad contracts elsewhere, it definately won't happen.

[phxMILWfan]

I don't think you can judge him on hits and misses on players as much as results. Before he came around we were perenial losers. Last year the team made the playoffs and is currently in the race. Also, who would you replace him with? No way would I fire DM.

[bullox]

What some people seem to expect is perfection. You can look at the histories of GM's who have won World Series recently and/or contend year in, year out and find bad decisions. No one is perfect. Does that give Melvin a free ride? No. But I maintain that the man has done an admirable job turning around a previously moribund franchise and returning it to respectability. Is it a finished product? Not quite, but there are some admirable pieces that GM's throughout the league covet. And it was his doing assembling them in to one cohesive unit that will be together for more than a single year.

[Fatter than Joey]

Didn't this guy just make the biggest trade in franchise history a year ago which brought the brewers to the playoffs for the first time in 26 years???

 

DM did not trade for Cecil Cooper, or Fingers/Simmons/Vuk.

 

In short, I think Melvin is an average GM. I think his timing is pretty weak.

 

I really agree with this. He has made enough mistakes, that I think he should be canned. I don't think DM is a bumbling oaf or anything like that -- but I do not think he has the ability to get the Brewers to the next level.

 

Extending Yost is still mind-boggling to me.

[bullox]

Extending Yost is still mind-boggling to me.

Does the fact that the above error in judgment has been corrected since mean anything? Or are we going to take it to the grave?

[zzzmanwitz]

Balfour - Traded for Seth McClung, who has been one of the most stable, and useful members of the pitching staff. BP for BP anyways, so meh.

 

Gwynn - Don't get me started on Gwynn, we got a useful player in Gerut but Macha refuses to use him. Gwynn himself would never be more than a 4th OF on a contending team.

 

Cruz - He was 27 years old before he even had a decent Major league campaign. Melvin was in a tough position that season. He knew he had to get rid of Carlos Lee, but wanted to get major league talent in return because we were making a run at the playoffs. Texas demanded Cruz in return. They made a good move, but the Brewers got a great closer in Cordero and a servicable OF in Mench.

 

Eveland - Eveland just got DFA'd by the Oakland A's, who if it weren't for the Nats, would be the worst team in the league.

 

With the exception of Cruz (who would still be our 4th OF at this point), none of those players would have contributed much to a playoff run.

[bando1234]

- Money poorly spent. (26M to Soup, Hall, and Riske in 2010.)

 

- Traded several players and prospects and has nothing to show for it on today's roster. (Especially the Carlos Lee trade. Lee and Cruz for a year and a half rental of a closer)

 

- The state of pitching in the organization is abysmal at AAA and the major league level. (Mike Burns?)

 

- Gave up on certain players without ever giving them a shot. And we got little in return. (Balfour, Gwynn, Cruz, Eveland)

 

In short, I think Melvin is an average GM. I think his timing is pretty weak. For the number of good players we have had over the last 3 years, we should be a better position than we are. The question will be if our pitching is for real in the lower levels of the organization, can we peak at both pitching and hitting at the same time and really be a world series contender. I don't know if Melvin is good enough to make that happen. If we lose Fielder because of bad contracts elsewhere, it definately won't happen.

Im more of a fire Ken Macha type of guy.

 

As far as money poorly spent, I remember I did not care for the Soup siging when it happened,because I would have rather signed Doug Davis because I think he signed for 1/2 the price for 3 years. As for Hall he was signed after a great season plus he had all sorts of potential. It seemed like a good deal at the time. I dont think moving him from one position to another helped. There were probally some waring signs at the time. As far as Riske goes I thought it was a good siging at the time because he had several good seasons. Many people thought it was a great move siging Braun to a multi year contract but if he tanks somewhere down the road, it wont look that good.

 

We did get Mcclung for Balfour & while Balfour has clearly outmatched Mcclung, it still does not seem like a horrible trade. I loved the Gwynn for Gerut trade at the time, heinsight it has not been so great. Cruz spent several years in the minors in a number or orginazations. It even took a few years to get it going for the Rangers.

[Fatter than Joey]

Due to the fact that the above error in judgment has been corrected since mean anything?

 

Not really, -- I don't think DM fired Yost.

 

Or are we going to take it to the grave?

 

Absolutely -- When you guys start forgiving Sal Bando, I will try to get past extending Yost.

[bullox]

Or are we going to take it to the grave?

 

Absolutely -- When you guys start forgiving Sal Bando, I will try to get past extending Yost.

While Sal Bando was terrible for the Brewers organization at the time, he can't hurt us anymore. There is no sense in constantly being upset over spilled milk years after it has been cleaned up. Unless that's just the way you are, and so be it. Your opinion on the Yost issue is certainly welcome and up for debate as much as anyone's opinion, but time comes when you realize you are arguing against just about no one. At least in my opinion.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think Melvin is a fine GM. Sure he has made some bad moves/signings. but he has also made good ones. It all kind of evens out. You have some hits and you have some misses.

[Fatter than Joey]

While Sal Bando was terrible for the Brewers organization at the time, he can't hurt us anymore.

 

1.) There were a lot of things that Sal Bando did that hurt us way beyond his actual tenure here.

2.) Doug Melvin is our current GM and can hurt us.

 

There is no sense in constantly being upset over spilled milk years after it has been cleaned up.

 

Yost was fired less than a year ago --

 

Unless that's just the way you are, and so be it.

 

I guess "the way I are" -- is that I feel like the guy who thinks extending Ned Yost was a good idea, probably does not have the ability to make sound choices in future situations. Furthermore, Extending Ned Yost is not like spilling a glass of milk, anymore than selling Babe Ruth for a musical was.

 

time comes when you realize you are arguing against just about no one.

 

This phrase is clunky. Can you please clarify what you mean here?

[Invader3K]

I think Melvin is a fine GM. Sure he has made some bad moves/signings. but he has also made good ones. It all kind of evens out. You have some hits and you have some misses.

I still think Melvin has had more hits than misses. The misses he's had haven't been far reaching (other than maybe signing Hall and Suppan) and haven't hurt the team that much.

[zzzmanwitz]

I also like some of the moves he hasn't made...

 

Trading Carlos Lee instead of signing him to a huge deal.

 

Not giving into Fransisco Cordero's contract demands.

[Invader3K]

Trading Carlos Lee instead of signing him to a huge deal.

 

Not giving into Fransisco Cordero's contract demands.

To be fair though he did offer Lee a very sizable contract (which Houston ended up blowing out of the water, which will probably haunt them eventually), and Cordero didn't really give Melvin a chance to "give in to his demands."

[JJHardy7]

- Traded several players and prospects and has nothing to show for it on today's roster. (Especially the Carlos Lee trade. Lee and Cruz for a year and a half rental of a closer)

How many prospects has DM traded away that have actually performed well in the bigs? It took Cruz a few years to figure it out and he still doesn't have enough time that tells me he's going to be an all-star every year. He looks good this year, but I'm not going to get too worked up about it. I'd imagine most GMs have traded away a lot more prospects and regretted it than DM.

DM is an ok GM. I do worry about the lack of pitching in the organization. I know that's not entirely his fault, but at some point and time that has to get figured out.

I do wish DM would monitor when to trade high on some guys. I know this could be the first off-season where we see some of the first real wave of prospects that arrived in Milwaukee traded (Hardy, Hart, etc), but in my opinion that maybe should've happened sooner especially with a player like Hart. The Brewers are supposed to know more about their players than anyone else and when they've traded prospects that's worked out for them...it's like they get a special attachment to the players when they get to the MLB level.

DM has also struck out in free agency, but when they signed a guy like Suppan that's before Milwaukee baseball was really taken seriously (not saying Suppan changed that) and the economy was different. They had to overpay for a mediocre pitcher...hopefully they're past that stage, but again developing your own pitchers solves those types of problems pretty quick.

[zzzmanwitz]

To be fair though he did offer Lee a very sizable contract

 

This is true, however, there were many fans that still felt he should have offered more. I remember there being a lot of backlash when he was traded away.

 

You are right on Cordero, I forgot about that fiasco. I'm still glad he wasn't signed.

[Invader3K]

I guess for me it all boils down to who you could put into the Brewers GM position that would realistically do a much better job. I don't see anyone floating around out there who you could reasonably expect to do a whole lot more, given the Brewers current market and budget constraints. It's not like Mark Attanasio would hire a new GM and say, "Here's another $20 million in pay roll to play with! Go to town!"

[JohnBriggs12]

I've been critical of Melvin from time to time. He has strengths and weaknesses. Overall he's average to slightly above average. His weakness from my perspective is that he's not very creative. He tends to deal only for immediate need and not from strength or to upgrade where they might be okay on paper but there's an opportunity to really upgrade. I'd have been all over Ibanez (you'll look back and find posts last year where I said he should be targeted) last off-season and later Abreu after Ibanez signed with Philly when Abreu's price was in free fall.

 

Either Ibanez or Abreu would have significantly upgraded the offense, and allowed them to deal Hart for some arms, but they might have caused them to move Braun to RF, which to me would have been worth the risk. In that case, it would have meant more work for Melvin and I think he'd rather sit back.

 

Melvin was content with a team that was 5th in runs scored last year that barely scraped into the postseason. I would have tried to improve on that. They needed to be in the top 2 in runs scored with this pitching staff that was tough to upgrade on their budget.

 

The bottom line as far as Melvin's future, it rests with the success of Macha. GM's typically don't get the chance to name a 3rd manager. Melvin's had a relatively long tenure and if Macha can't get it done by 2011, both he and Melvin will be gone.

[DougJones43]

When people ask "what could Melvin have done differently?", that question needs to be extended back further than just this past offseason. Moves Melvin made 2-3 years ago put the team into the situation they entered during the offseason, so his overall responsibility in the rotation mess is substantial. If he hadn't signed Suppan, we'd have had $12M more to use this year AND next year. He traded away Doug Davis for Estrada/Vargas, and now is stuck in the position of facing having to overpay to get a guy like Davis back. Whose fault is that? What if he had put the Gagne/Riske money towards a quality starter?

 

He also needs to share in the responsibility of the lack of SP prospects in the system. While some of that is draft failures, starting pitching prospects can be acquired through trades as well, and Melvin has left the cupboard pretty bare in this area -- which is a significant failing IMO.

 

There are countless different ways this team could be better, but you have to look beyond the oversimplistic "who should Melvin have signed during this particular offseason?"