escobar or gamel??

[TheCrew07]

I think Gamel is a .900 OPS hitter, Escobar might be an .850 OPS hitter if he works hard in the weight room. Offensively Gamel is a much better bet which makes Escobar the more expendable player. I say again the player to trade was Hardy this off-season, but the majority of people on this site were against that move. In the grand scheme considering payroll, service years, and so on, I don't believe you trade either. I could get on board with moving Escobar if we were getting a younger SS back in the deal though, it just depends on the trade.

 

Prince is having a nice season in R+, but I worry about any college player that doesn't just own up the Pioneer league.

 

I still also believe that many are trying to go about acquiring pitching the wrong way, the idea for the Brewers should be to acquire a Neftali Feliz before he's a super prospect. That sort of deal doesn't help us out right now, as we have an immediate need, but if we can ever get over the top with the SP, I wouldn't mind acquiring more high ceiling pitching prospects in the lower rungs of the minors. Today, I don't know, last year I could come up with a plethora of deals straight up, I would have looked silly with Marcum, McGowan, and Santana all getting hurt within a year of suggesting trades for them though. Now to get an impact arm we're probably better off looking at players in AA that could make the jump... it's a short list, and the teams that match up well limit the possibilities further, but I'd be looking for players at that level or ready to make the jump to AA. Buchholz and Feliz, the 2 best pitchers at AAA, are probably not good targets. Texas has learned some hard lessons and I would be surprised if they moved either young pitcher they acquired from Atlanta, plus they don't need another bat, and given Epstein's comments linked elsewhere I don't believe he's interested in moving Buchholz either.

[Hate those Rodents]

Escobar is still getting better and is a .300 hitter and huge base stealing threat in AAA. Again, he's only going to get better. Hang on to a potential gold glove leadoff hitter that will be cheap for quite a few years.

[Never Outhustled]

Its going to be years before Escobar is an above average offensive SS. Gamel's OPS when starting at 3B was 82 points above the average 3B this year. Gamel will give us a middle of the lineup anchor through 2015. We don't even have room for Escobar until 2011.

 

I'd much rather deal Escobar than Gamel.

[Hate those Rodents]

We have room for Escobar at SS right now, but we argue the same thing every thread.

[TheCrew]

Escobar may not have the bat of a Hanley Ramirez - but few possess the defensive skills he does at SS. There is more depth at 3b, if one is getting dealt - I would rather it be Gamel. Or just trade Hardy and promote Escobar.......

[igor67]

I refuse to play the game and deal Lawrie, Improve on my shot in a crowded race and have a lot of options for coming on even stronger next year.

[paulmolitor4]

Its going to be years before Escobar is an above average offensive SS.

I'm sorry, but that is such a bunch of B.S. I'm so sick and tired of hearing this commentary on Escobar. It may end up being the truth, but I keep hearing people say this like they know this for a fact. Escobar continues make improvements in his offensive game, and it's terribly presumptious to pretend to know how fast he will or will not develop.

[fondybrewfan]

I would prefer dealing Gamel. Escobar plays the premium defensive position and is adequate enough on offense to be an above average overall SS. Plus we don't have a whole lot of depth at SS below Escobar. It is Escobar, Hardy, or ?.

 

With the overall lack of defensive abilities in the organization I think we have to hang on to what we have, especially if they have offensive talent.

 

You don't hit .300 in consective years with at least adequate power and not have offensive capabilites. He also has the potential to be a major base stealer.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Gamel, but I think he would be much easier to replace on the 2010/2011 team than Escobar. I also think Gamel has more trade value than Escobar especially if he is traded to a AL team. We have Taylor Green who looks more than capable of playing 3rd for the Brewers. 1st base, where Gamel would get moved to if Fielder is dealt, is also the easiest position to fill on the diamond (Obviously Fielders production will probably be impossibly to replace). If we have anyone raking in the minors they could easily be moved to 1st. Not to mention the potential for a 1st basemen in the return for Fielder.

[brewmann04]

why not keep both and pray you can deal Hardy

[Never Outhustled]

Don't get me wrong, I like Gamel, but I think he would be much easier to replace on the 2010/2011 team than Escobar. I also think Gamel has more trade value than Escobar especially if he is traded to a AL team. We have Taylor Green who looks more than capable of playing 3rd for the Brewers.

It will take multiple prospects, including a SS, to get a player like Halladay. If trade Gamel, who else do we through into the deal to get a valuable enough package, and how do we supply them with a SS?

 

An argument can be made that Escobar is more valuable than Gamel in a vacuum, but if we are talking about aquiring Halladay, then the package is made much easier using Escobar and Green.

 

 

I refuse to play the game and deal Lawrie, Improve on my shot in a crowded race and have a lot of options for coming on even stronger next year.

The problem with waiting is that the window we have Fielder for is shrinking. The Brewers, nor anyone else, has a prospect in their system that could instantly replace his production. keeping Escobar and Lawrie doesn't change that.

[zzzmanwitz]

If i HAD to trade one (which i would not do) it would be Escobar. Its a lot easier to find an above average fielder with an average to below average bat than an above average bat in general (regardless of defense).

 

why not keep both and pray you can deal hardy

 

If Melvin wanted to, it would not be hard to trade Hardy. He has a lot of value.

[Hate those Rodents]

Do tell me/us what JJ will net us then Zzz?

[SeriesFinale]

This is eerilly like last year when Melvin would not trade LaPorta/Gamel/Escobar in a CC trade and then gave in. Please don't do that for this year's underachieving team.

They were four games out of a playoff spot when they traded for CC last year and they only had him for the rest of the year. They're three now and would have Halladay or Lee until the end of 2010.

 

No, I'm not saying that I'd be happy to see either go, or that they couldn't use two strong pitchers instead of just one (who couldn't), but in this window of opportunity for the next few years, having a stud like one of those guys is huge. Not the magic key, no, but it provides a ton of leverage.

 

I guess to answer the question, I'd go with Escobar, too. It would be painful but you've got to give to get and I think they need a pitcher like that the next couple years (and a heavy-hitting 3B) more than they'll need a SS.

[GB12]

Endaround has it...Escobar is going to be a .750 OPS SS with vert good defensive skilss...you trade him and sign a player a lot like him for 3-4 million on the open market---you can still trade hardy...

 

if they are ever going to trade alcides, now is the time---the odds of him becomming hanley ramirez are 1 in 1000...the odds of him becoming rey ordonez are much. much higher...Gamel will hit...escobar? league average hitter...that's why they should trad ehim now, while he has that "Top prospect" sheen--before people realize he's got more in common with Jed Lowrie than Jose Reyes

Exactly what I'm thinking. I'd much rather trade Escobar than Gamel, and I kind of hope we do trade him soon. I think he has more value right now as a trade chip than he will ever be to our major league team.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Parra, Escobar, Carlos V, Billy Hall and Dillard for Halladay. Get it done. As many have noted, Toronto wants a SS badly, and seems willing to overpay. This is a perfect time for us to sell high on Escobar. If Weeks returns strong, we have a very solid team next year. Gamel will have more seasoning, and if we can find a decent #3-#4 pitcher we're in really good shape. Halladay keeps the fans packed in this year and we got for all the marbles in 2010 after resigning Hoffman.

 

2B Weeks, SS Hardy, RF Braun, 1B Fielder, 3B/LF McGehee, 3B/LF Gamel, CF Hart, C Lucroy Halladay/Gallardo/FA/Bush/Soup

[pogokat]

There is no way that Billy Hall is traded for Halladay--none...he has more negative value than escobar has positive...

[nate82]

There is no way that Billy Hall is traded for Halladay--none...he has more negative value than escobar has positive...

Hall has positive value if the Jays put in Rios/Wells. With Wells Hall has 10 times the value you may think there is.

[Never Outhustled]

Its going to be years before Escobar is an above average offensive SS.

I'm sorry, but that is such a bunch of B.S. I'm so sick and tired of hearing this commentary on Escobar. It may end up being the truth, but I keep hearing people say this like they know this for a fact. Escobar continues make improvements in his offensive game, and it's terribly presumptious to pretend to know how fast he will or will not develop.

How is he making improvements to his offensive game? His OPS is down this year, he has been hovering in the mid-700s. His only good offensive year was a year in which he had an incredibly high BAPIP. He's not a super young, totally inexperienced guy who might suddenly have the light go on for him. He has played a full year at every level except AAA, and he's just 5 weeks away from doing that, with a pedestrian OPS. Compare his AAA numbers to our other prospects when they were in AAA and you see why I don't think he is close to being an asset.

 

It might be presumptious that I think it might be years before he's an above average offensive SS, but it might actually be presumtious to say he'll ever be an average offensive SS.

[hauser42]

First of I dont see a trade going on with these prospects.

 

IMO Escobar is the guy who needs to be moved. Right now his stock is hign and it will not get much higher. His potential to hit with his defense will get a needed talent on the team. As Escobar shows less ability to hit his value will drecrease.

 

I hope Hardy gets a long term deal done with the Brewers. Only thing Escobar has on him is range and that is not over the top. Hardy has solid range with a big arm so I dont see gaining much with Escobar.

 

While Green is being talked about as a 3B, does he really have the stick that is prefered at 3B?? I dont recall him hitting like Gamel with the that kind of power.

[DHonks]

That's a very tough question. If Hardy were willing to sign an extension for around 4 years $25-35 million, then that makes Escobar trade bait. If the Brewers view McGehee as legit, then Gamel could be trade bait.

 

Personally, I'd rather more Escobar and try to extend Hardy if at all possible.

[Weirdos19]

I say trade Gamel before Escobar.

 

We have other in house options at third base in Green and McGehee. We have 3 cheap third basemen. And while Gamel may be the best of the three, if McGehee hits .280 with 15-20 HR for the next five years, losing Gamel won't bother us too much. If our infield is cheap in 2 years, we may actually be able to resign Halladay.

 

If we deal Escobar, we could easily be looking at a large hole at shortstop in two years. I still have nightmares over the Jose Hernandez days. Hardy will not be here in three years. Heck, he probably gets dealt before opening day next year.

 

Also, we have needed a true leadoff hitter for years. Since Vina was here. Escobar is fast and is improving yearly on his patience at the plate.

 

I would rather have McGehee/Green and Escobar in 2011 than Gamel and ???? in 2011.

[GB12]

If our infield is cheap in 2 years, we may actually be able to resign Halladay.

I wouldn't want to re-sign Halladay. He'll be going on 34 when his deal ends.

[Hate those Rodents]

8-9 million for Hardy per season is not something that would be too wise.

[Invader3K]

How is Hardy possibly worth that much per year right now? Seems like he should get about $4-5 million per year at most.

[southpaw121505]

Only thing Escobar has on him is range and that is not over the top. Hardy has solid range with a big arm so I dont see gaining much with Escobar.

From all accounts Escobar's range IS that much better than most, including Hardy. And he has a cannon of his own.