Brewers acquire Felipe Lopez from Arizona for Cole Gillespie/Roque Mercedes, Gamel back to Nashville

[PeaveyFury]

I can't see especially with Macha being concerned about Casey's defense because of the knee why Heether doesn't get called up and let Casey take a rest to heal.

 

If Gamel was here and not getting enough playing time, why should we expect Heether to be called up for the first time and be put in the lineup regularly?

[Diskono]

I agree with the consensus that it was a good trade and that Gillespie was somewhat expendable. However, I want to go on record that you have not heard the last of Roque and my guess is that he was the one AZ wanted in the deal.

 

Roque has good command and keeps the ball down. I will be surprised if he does not make it as a MLB middle reliever some day.

I'm with you here. When I heard about this deal, I was more disappointed about losing Mercedes. Gillespie is a nice bat, but Gabe Gross without the defense isn't terrible useful.

 

I'm underwhelmed, but if the Brewers don't think Counsell can play every day, I guess they had to do something. His career .334 OBP isn't quite what I'd like out of a leadoff hitter, so I'm not sure if it solves that problem - I'd rather use Gamel or Cameron.

The point is, that's speculation. Lopez is at least proven. Heether could well be the next Chris Barnwell- who knows?

The difference there is that Barnwell was always a bad hitter before having one good year out of nowhere at AAA. Heether has pretty much always hit well.

 

On a half-related note, anybody remember the name of that 2B who had a monster year at Beloit back in '03 or '04? Wasn't Iribarren, but some other guy whose name I can't remember.

[JohnBriggs12]

One need look no further than Gamel's K rate (1 K for every 2.46 AB) for proof he wasn't ready. That's 244 K's over 600 AB's which would shatter the major league record. I don't think the Brewers expected him to strike out so much. His worst year in the minors, he fanned once every 4.92 AB's. I'm thinking they want to see him work on protecting the plate with 2 strikes.

[Fatter than Joey]

You must lose a lot of bets.

 

??? - I am not sure you carefully read what I wrote -- I said "I am not comfortable making this gamble" -- which should imply that I am conservative by nature -- A more correct snarky response would have been "You must not win a lot of bets" -- which would have been true -- I don't win a lot of bets, and that would have torched my soul.

 

Lopez specifically went for a one year contract this year in the hopes of playing well enough to net a multi-year deal.

 

This simply is not true -- Here is Lopez's recent contract history.

 

2006 -- Accept Arby's -- signed and avoided the hearing

2007 -- Ditto

2008 -- Accepted Arby's and lost the hearing

a.) Released by the Nats

b.) Signed by the Cards

c.) The Cards Declined to offer Lopez Arby's.

2009 -- Signed a one year deal, for 1.5M less than he earned in 2008 by AZ

Dumped/Traded to the Brewers

 

Lopez didn't "go/went" for anything -- things happened to him -- he certainly has a history of accepting Arby's and I don't see that changing.

 

With his performance this year, he is well on his way to convincing teams that he is finally living up to his vast potential.

 

I really don't think the 340ish ABs he has had this year is really going to make GMs all warm and fuzzy on the inside about his "vast potential".

 

Plus, Lopez has the one thing stat heads hate and mediocre GM's love: Tools. Lots of em.

 

I really doubt this as well -- We didn't have to give up a whole lot for Lopez, if he was in demand, I am certain another team could have given AZ a better offer. Lopez was released in 2008. *Shrug* -- I think he has a black mark on him.

 

And I don't really understand the complaints that this move does nothing to help our outfield depth. Lopez can play all three outfield positions,

 

Lopez has never played CF, and has only played 17 games in his career in the corner spots. I am sure he could hack his way around the outfield in an emergency -- however I don't think that this is a very tangible benefit either.

 

Only fools and communists would refuse to take such a bet.

 

I certainly have been called foolish more than once in my life, and my politics definitely embrace communism. Doug Melvin, extended Ned Yost, and is Canadian, so I am not sure your argument holds a lot of water here.

 

I know you mods have to stick together, and that is adorable in a "Charley bit my finger" sort of way -- but, you guys still haven't corrected yourselves on the misreading of TH's blog, to be calling me foolish and a communist.

 

I agree that this trade makes some sense, in that CC and CM are not and should not be every day players, and this move gives us stop-gap IF depth -- but the following are not reasons to feel good about this trade...

 

1.) Gamel to AAA -- This should have happened long before this trade.

2.) Comp Picks -- See Sabathia and Sheets, this is an entirely unknown variable

3.) Lineup Stability -- Again, our lineup could have been stable before this trade -- I don't think lineup tinkering makes much difference other than Braun and Fielder maximizing their ABs.

4.) OF depth

[naivin]

Is it safe to assume this deal officially closes the door on Doug Davis?

[Fatter than Joey]

Is it safe to assume this deal officially closes the door on Doug Davis?

 

I think so, at least for us. I am pretty sure at some point DDs name had to be tossed around.

[JJHardy7]

Obviously Gamel wasn't a solution to Macha. Given that, this trade is absolutely a necessity. Both McGehee and Counsell are nursing bad knees. Bill Hall is just plain terrible. Lopez is a proven commodity. Adam Heether is not. That no one was posting about the need for someone like Lopez, means nothing about whether or not the deal should've been done. Neither one of the guys given up were integral to the future of the franchise. You are correct, they do have value. They netted the team a proven major league starting SS/2b that can switch-hit and is a leadoff hitter. He's no great of the game, but he makes sense given the team's situation.

Doesn't this speak volumes about Macha then? What if he doesn't feel like starting a certain pitcher? Should we just trade for one? I hope this isn't an indication that Macha and Melvin aren't on the same page.

I'm not comparing Gillespie to LaPorta, but we need to remember that just because a prospect doesn't fit in the Brewers plans doesn't mean he won't fit in another team's plans. Was this the most we could get for him? I don't think anyone here knows that answer, but just because he didn't fit in Milwaukee does not mean that he didn't have value. LaPorta wouldn't be starting in Milwaukee this year...does that mean he didn't have any value?

[sheethead]

Only fools and communists would refuse to take such a bet.

 

Wow, so we can call each other fools and commies now. Papa can't preach now, but I am not entirely sure this is a step in the right direction. I prefer calling others morons or numskulls.

 

Gamel should have stuck, and I am not sure Lopez infuses anything here. Time will tell I guess. We still only have 4 outfielders (I still don't count Hall). I think the wrong area was addressed.

[trademark04]

Although unlikely this could be a possible trade that everyone feels is looming. Halladay to milwaukee for a package including J.J. Hardy.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/11969593/rss

[endaround]

The Jays have Scutaro for the short term, they don't need Hardy. That makes it a 3 team deal which is almost impossible to pull together.

[naivin]

Doesn't this speak volumes about Macha then? What if he doesn't feel like starting a certain pitcher? Should we just trade for one? I hope this isn't an indication that Macha and Melvin aren't on the same page.

I have felt for the better part of the season that they are not/have not been on the same page, and many of the odd line ups and patterns have been Macha's way of trying to force DM to get him a lead off hitter. Much the way he forced Julio off the roster. With Lopez here, perhaps we'll see.

[sheethead]

Much the way he forced Julio off the roster.

 

I thought Julio played his way off the roster by not pitching well. Macha pulled one over on me.

[Invader3K]

I wish anyone could give me one good reason why Toronto would want Hardy. They aren't contending this year or next, so he would do very little good for them. And as noted, they still have Scutaro right now. If we send them a shortstop for Halladay, it's going to have to be Escobar.

[Thurston Fluff]

The Jays have Scutaro for the short term, they don't need Hardy. That makes it a 3 team deal which is almost impossible to pull together.

 

Unless they view JJ as the long term shortstop. Scutaro could then be flipped for something else.

 

Overall the Lopez deal gives the Brewers some depth and the type of hitter they were looking for. He has always hit well in Milwaukee and has been pretty good for the last year. Considering they only have him for another 1/2 year I'm pretty comfortable with him being able to put up similar numbers for at least a portion of the rest of the season.

The down side is losing a guy who could be a middle reliever in 3ish years is more than an insignificant loss for an organization that has it's fair share of problems producing them the last couple decades.

If Lopez does accept arby next year no big deal. Counsell may well retire and would be 39 next year. Hard to count of guys that age to continue being good. Especially when they have Counsell's skill set to begin with. Hall and Lopez would provide the veteran bench Melvin likes. Considering how Macha uses his bench neither of them would play much unless there were injuries anyway.

[trwi7]

Fangraphs on the trade.

I pretty much agree. It's a small offensive upgrade for us, not much more. This deal all hinges on whether we get a pick for Lopez for me.

[TheCrew]

I'm surprised so many are against this trade.......... I love Gamel's potential as much as the next guy, his glove really surprised me while he was up, but his bat disappointed. I know some will say that if he got regular time it would improve........ well, what if it didn't? Can we afford to ride that out while trying to make the playoffs? As pointed out in the article above, he had been striking out at an alarming rate (46k's in 113 ab's). Some people are acting as if he was producing at a high level and Macha kept him on the bunch - I realize it's a small sample size and that he has a great track record in the minors, but he wasn't producing.

 

Lopez gives the crew a legit leadoff hitter - I think I read he is second in OBP among 2b....... I just don't get how people can be upset with that, if nothing else, it improves the bench and as we all know, improvement was needed there.

[naivin]

I thought Julio played his way off the roster by not pitching well. Macha pulled one over on me.

Did you see his last outing? Macha left him out there to explode when he didn't have to. Everyone knew he couldn't get hitters out, yet Macha threw him out there and kept him out there. A manager's biggest hammer and means to send the GM a message is the ability to put guys on the field or keep them off the field.

[bklynbrewcrew]

This trade is an indictment on the incompetence of Macha. Since Macha refused to play his best option every day (Gamel) and just doesnt like young players Melvin was forced to trade for a mediocre player. I completely agree that Melvin and Macha are not on the same page and hope Doug pulls the plug after the season. Gamel has shown that when he is given the chance to start that he will produce some nice numbers yet Macha was constantly looking for reasons not to play him. His comments about Melvin putting him in a "zim zam" with Gamel just shows how incompetent Macha really is.

[trwi7]

His comments about Melvin putting him in a "zim zam" with Gamel just shows how incompetent Macha really is.

Yeah.

 

"It gets to be a jam. You're developing a guy, so do you put the pressure on him that he's going to be up there with guys on base all the time? ... In a way, I was put into a little bit of a 'zim-zam.' It's got me flummoxed."

Just amazing comments to me. I didn't like Yost, but at least he didn't waste our top prospects on the bench.

[JJHardy7]

Just amazing comments to me. I didn't like Yost, but at least he didn't waste our top prospects on the bench.

 

Agreed. I've had enough of Macha. He might do alright on this team if this was a veteran team that really wouldn't have to rely on prospects the next few years...that doesn't appear to be the case. It's like Melvin will be forced to include more and more veterans on this team in order to keep Macha happy. It makes you kind of second guess why they released Nelson and traded TGJR (I don't want to get into a debate about either of those moves) and got more 'veteran like' with Gerut and Cat.

[sheethead]

Everyone knew he couldn't get hitters out, yet Macha threw him out there and kept him out there.

 

IIRC, the bullpen phone wasn't working. It ended up giving Julio an extra two batters to face. It didn't take Julio long to implode that inning. Its not like he was out there for 20 minutes.

 

I wonder if Melvin consulted with Billy Beane before he hired Macha. Grandpa doesn't seem to like flaky youngsters.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Any manager that gets "flummoxed" at the prospect of playing a great young player like Gamel is in over his head. This is completely the wrong job for Macha. We will always have young players and if the manager only wants veterans we are in trouble. The situation for opening day where Macha pitched Suppan instead of Gallardo because he was afraid of pitching a young guy on opening day was the first sign that Macha fears young players.

[Ennder]

I'm more worried about the way Macha is treating Gallardo and Parra than not playing Gamel personally.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

Reading some of this is entertaining.

 

Gamel should have been sent down two weeks ago.

 

Macha didn't bench Brooks freaking Robinson. Gamel was mediocre up here. Had his moments, and was better than Hall, but was worse than McGehee. In terms of production, their best lineup was with Counsell at 2B and McGehee at 3B. And when healthy that's what happened.

 

If you want to criticize Macha for the occaisional Bill Hall start, be my guest. Won't get any arguments from me.

[joepepsi]

Lopez's numbers this year are skewed up because of his home ballpark. He's not a particularly good on base guy, doesn't steal bases, so I don't see how he is a "true" leadoff hitter. Gamel wasn't doing much worse than Lopez, especially if you look at Lopez' away splits.

 

It's a trade that won't make any difference. Unless something bigger is in the works.....