Brewers acquire Felipe Lopez from Arizona for Cole Gillespie/Roque Mercedes, Gamel back to Nashville

[zzzmanwitz]

I've spent a great deal of my time on this thread discussing Gamel and not Lopez. I think Lopez is a solid pick up and we didn't really give up much to get him. Could we have used Cole and Roque to pick up some other player (a pitcher?).... maybe. But we don't know what deals are out there and what other GMs are asking for. What this does do is gives us an every day 2B and leadoff hitter. Will he produce more than our current tandem at 2nd, probably not, but he will give more rest to those guys who are already ailing.

 

As I have said in previous posts on this thread, I am not happy that this has to led to Gamel being sent down, but I am glad that he is getting regular playing time now. It is what it is, it may not help the team currently, but it helps in terms of depth and keeping our players fresh.

 

If we get a sandwich pick out of the deal, even better yet.

[JJHardy7]

I assure you that this isn't the case. He, like myself, is probably just stunned by all the hand-wringing over getting a useful player (who's level of usefulness is certainly up for debate) and a possible sandwich pick for next to nothing.

I think Lopez is a fine player to have on the team. I just don't know how many more games the Brewers win compared to having an internal guy, Gamel stay up in his current role, etc. And there aren't any guarantees about who we potentially pick. They may never be as good as Cole. It's not like Cole is a bad prospect. And I agree though with what other posters have said...maybe this was the best they could do? If it was, they should've made this deal 2 months ago (if it was on the table). Hopefully this is the first move that will lead to another move. We're still giving up prospects for a potential rental that most likely won't be the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. I just want to be clear that I'm not knocking Lopez...it's just not the type of trade that I get overly excited about since there was talk around here within the past year or so that Gillespie would be starting in Milwaukee next year IIRC.

[PeaveyFury]

since there was talk around here within the past year or so that Gillespie would be starting in Milwaukee next year IIRC.

 

Over Braun or Hart? You're sure you're not thinking of the chatter about Katin (a much better OF prospect)?

 

If people have been confusing Gillespie with Katin, that certainly makes the negativity about the trade make more sense...

[Godspeed]

I like Cole Gillespie, but he wasn't displacing Hart (via moving Braun to RF) until he fully proves himself in AAA, if ever. Since that didn't happen this year for one reason or another, you're looking at a 26 year old repeating AAA next year. I'd take him as a 4th/5th OF over a $2M veteran though. That's where his value lies.

 

Also, due to his plate discipline, Gillespie was a much safer (and arguably better) prospect than Katin.

[PeaveyFury]

Also, due to his plate discipline, Gillespie was a much safer (and arguably better) prospect than Katin.

 

While fair re: his plate discipline, Gillespie is really without a legitimate position due to his horrible arm as well.

[DougJones43]

Lopez wearing uniform #3, and already got picked off in the first inning. That's two quick strikes against him...

[JJHardy7]

Over Braun or Hart? You're sure you're not thinking of the chatter about Katin (a much better OF prospect)?

 

If people have been confusing Gillespie with Katin, that certainly makes the negativity about the trade make more sense...

 

I'll clarify...last year his name was mentioned as a start in 2010 depending on what happens in the OF with Hart and Cam...and maybe moving Braun to RF. I'm pretty sure it was Cole and Cole has much more value than Katin right now and is a better prospect right now. Katin doesn't walk at all. Cole has also dealt with a lot of injuries so I'm not sure if his performance this year (or lack of) is a good indication. PF...Katin is putting up good numbers, but take a look at his on base and such...it's pretty bad. Hopefully he gets there, but Cole > Katin IMO.

 

And again...the talk a year ago was Cole in the OF in 2010 if Hart was traded or Cam leaves. It's also not like it'd be difficult to match what Hart is doing now IMO.

 

PF - Not to be a jerk, but check out Cole's rankings in the top 50 power rankings. I think people are really selling him short. He was number 6 just over a year ago...and 7th less than a year ago. I know it's not a fair comparison, but check out who is #7 today. Cole is better than what he's getting credit for in this thread IMO...at least by some. Katin is not anywhere near the prospect Cole is...that's not to say that can't change. I couldn't have cared less if they gave up Katin in the deal (and I do like Katin...he just wouldn't be a good fit on this team), but I doubt Arizona takes that deal.

[PeaveyFury]

Katin is putting up good numbers, but take a look at his on base and such...it's pretty bad.

 

Gillespie's is only 17 points above Katin's. Gillespie's having a pretty bad overall year at AAA- .242/.332/.424, while Katin is at .270/.315/.564. Katin has some upside if his recent plate discipline is for real.

[LouisEly]

One of my biggest problems here is that we should be a buy low/sell high team. Felipe Lopez probably has the most value right now than he could ever have the rest of his career and probably more than he's ever had previously in his career. That, coupled with the fact that we didn't really need him makes this trade very underwhelming. We could have gotten him for a bag of peanuts this last offseason - instead we're trading two prospects for him.

 

Remember, the only reason this trade happened is because Weeks is out for the season. Sure they could have gotten him for peanuts... if your definition of peanuts is $3.5M for a bench player.

[JJHardy7]

Gillespie's is only 17 points above Katin's. Gillespie's having a pretty bad overall year at AAA- .242/.332/.424, while Katin is at .270/.315/.564. Katin has some upside if his recent plate discipline is for real.

 

I don't think really any baseball experts or scouts would put Katin ahead of Gillespie. Cole's OBP is .100 points higher than hsi BA...imagine if he was actually hitting? Katin is still going to take time to develop. With a obp driven by BA and a lot of strikeouts, he doesn't project well right now IMO.

[PeaveyFury]

imagine if he was actually hitting?

 

I think that sums things up pretty well.

[YoungGeezy]

4-4 with a walk and a triple from the lead off spot. Man that was a useless trade if I may say so myself. I wish we could go back to Counsell and Kendell as our everyday lead-off hitters.... Little sarcastic there but even though he won't do this every game, he really is a solid option who gets on-base from the leadoff spot. Thats what makes it a good (not great but overall solid) trade. We need guys who just get on base.

As for Katin..... serious plate discipline would be an understatement for a guy who strikes out every 3 at bats and doesn't walk. The only reason I'd even come close to saying he is a good of a prospect as Gillespie is because of the massive power and he isn't limited to just left field. Cole has good speed and 15-20 hr pop. His plate disciple is fantastic. Plus he keeps a respectible OPS. If it wasn't for his shot arm I think he'd be much more valuable. The past three he has been rated by BA as a top 10 prospect for us and I don't believe Katin has made the top 20 or even the list period.

[Baldkin]

Also two wonderful outs on the basepaths... he fits right in on this team.

[Invader3K]

To be fair the second out between third and home was intentional...he was trying to protect the other two runners on the base paths. The first one was pretty boneheaded though.

[bando1234]

I have to agree with JJ & Young on this one. When I think of Katin 2KO pops in my mind. Cole has about 70 more walks in about 400 less at bats. Cole does not stand out in any one area(except his poor arm) he does everything decent. He is having an off year in AAA ball. In my mind I think he will eventually be better than Hart. I always thought if we traded Hart it would have been nice to see him bat 2nd in the lineup.

[shelmark]

I liked Gillespie OBP numbers as well, but they were always tempered by average power, high SO rates, and the fact that he certainly wasn't one of the younger players in the leagues he was playing. Certainly nothing more than a spot starter if he was projected at LF only. Katin will never see a Brewer uniform, IMHO.

[PeaveyFury]

Katin will never see a Brewer uniform, IMHO.

 

I think he'll be in Milwaukee yet this year, so to each his own, I guess.

[kalle8]

.

dbacks have budget related problems signing players drafted last month.

the move should be seen as salary dumping.

they see gillespie as a 4th OF at best, and mercedes only slightly more interesting.

they are willing to part with doug davis too, and still talking with the brewers about him.

[Invader3K]

That's interesting. Thanks for the update, kalle8. I am surprised to hear they are still investigating Doug Davis, but with Halladay looking more and more like a pipe dream, it might be the best move Doug Melvin can make at this point..

[Fatter than Joey]

He, like myself, is probably just stunned by all the hand-wringing over getting a useful player (who's level of usefulness is certainly up for debate) and a possible sandwich pick for next to nothing.

 

You guys stun way to easy. There really has not been any hand-wringing in this thread, -- any trade is going to have its detractors.

 

the move should be seen as salary dumping.

 

Nice post, and detective work Kalle! this is exactly the feeling I got from AZ.

[JJHardy7]

I think he'll be in Milwaukee yet this year, so to each his own, I guess.

I'm not saying he'll never say a Milwaukee uniform, but he isn't on the 40-man so that could present its own problems going forward. I like Katin and I've seen him play. He very well good succeed he just has to have plate discipline. There are plenty of guys who have repeated AAA and put up big-time power numbers...if Katin can develop some discipline to go along with that he may have a shot to start in the bigs. If he can't, he may struggle like Brad Nelson to be anything but a PH and we know how difficult that can be. I still would rather see Heether in Milwaukee before Katin just because Heether can play anywhere in the field and has some plate discipline. Katin would be a nice surprise for next year and it'd be a nice cheap bench option if his plate discipline comes around.

[brewmann04]

i am not sure if the Breweres should make any type of Deal especially if it will cost us any good Prospects.

[Invader3K]

The price tag for Davis shouldn't be extremely high at this point...he'd just be a rental, and with Halladay floating out there, I have to believe the suitors for Davis are fairly slim at the moment.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

Do you really think Doug Davis is enoug to put the Brewers on top? Id say you need Halladay, Lee, or Bedard or stay with what you have.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

It may not take that much in this division. With Bush out we are almost raising the white flag every 5th game. However if Bush gets back and Parra can continue his string, Davis is really not much of an upgrade. I would think our willingness to do a Davis trade would go down over time if Bush pans out.