2 MVP Candidates on the Brewers?

[crossface21]

What if Ryan Braun continues to hit around the .340-.350 mark and ends up hitting 30-35 HR's? Does anyone think he could make a legitimate run at the MVP as a rookie? Or do you think he started the season too late? If he has the at-bats, it would be tough to ignore the numbers.

 

 

 

(unambigufied thread title --1992casey)

[Team Canada]

If he has those numbers, it doesn't matter when he started the season! (In fact, that only makes it more impressive).

 

I'd certainly vote for him, especially considering the black hole that otherwise would be playing 3B.

[zingsheim]

I hope he continues at this pace but I hate to get ahead of ourselves. Otherwise yes, because he's a man beast.

[1992casey]

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?especially considering the black hole that otherwise would be playing 3B.

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I remember a discussion on Home Plate last summer pointing out exactly the same thing. MVP voters should be considering what would happen if that player had to be replaced. I'd bet a lot of writers don't think in a sophisticated enough fashion to do that, though.

[GAME05]

a full season of work naturally adds more value to a team than 2/3rds, so if I had a vote, i would see his partial-season as a negative. at the least, i wouldn't adjust any of his numbers based on a full season of play and just evaluate the numbers as they are.

 

so even if he continues this amazing pace, his overall numbers would be awesome, but i wouldn't put them ahead of what Fielder or Reyes will finish the season at.

 

and heck, the Astros aren't so far back yet (probably as the Brewers were in 89) that I wouldn't then give the award to Pence, who's kept Braun's pace for a full season already.

[Roscoe Chill]

Braun won't win the MVP award, but that doesn't mean there aren't two players on the Brewers playing at an MVP caliber level...which they both are.

[endaround]

Here are the leaders in VORP in the NL:

 

1)Chase Utley 49.8

2) Hanley Ramirez 48.6

3) Miquel Cabrera 46.2

4) Chipper Jones 41.5

5) Barry Bonds 38.4

6) Aaron Rowand 37.8

7) Jose Reyes 37.7

8) Prince Fielder 37.1

9) Russell Martin 36.8

10) Matt Holliday 36.8

 

Ryan Braun VORP is currently 30, but his VORP rate is the highest in the majors.

 

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(Fixed accidentally posted emoticon. Note that mods don't mind doing usability edits, but also note that this issue is now documented: Why does my message contain emoticons I didn't intend to post? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif --1992casey)

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[brettac1]

Utley blows by people even more due to his defense, too. In comparison, Fielder's defense has been awful this year (as has Braun's).

 

Aaron Rowand has really been great this year - 9.7 WARP3.

[endaround]

See hardballtimes rates Fielder as average since while he isn't agile and so doesn't get much in the 1B zone, he makes a lot of out of zone plays due to his relatively high speed (ie the number of catches he makes in foul ground in right field). Braun though does have his problems.

[T B0NE 10]

imagine where we would be if we never brought up braun?

[BrewCrewForever]

I think there is no doubt with Braun's talent he could win an MVP someday.

[sheetswannabe]

Whats VORP?

[1992casey]

Value Above Replacement Player

 

VORP rate accounts for different numbers of at bats (like batting average). VORP is a counting stat (like homers).

[Ennder]

If Hanely had played even average defense this year he'd be the #1 on that VORP list.

 

Braun has put up the same stats as Pence in a lot fewer games, I expect him to be the front runner for ROY at the end of the year barring an injury. I highly doubt he'll get consideration for MVP though, not with the years some other players are having.

[endaround]

VORP is offense only. With defense Utley laps him, but defense and MVP almost never go together.

[MNBrew]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but doesn't VORP stand for "Value Over Replacement Player," not Value Above Replacement Player? It means the same thing, but wouldn't the latter lead to VARP, not VORP?

 

The funny thing is, I have no idea how it's calculated and it's a measure I don't pay attention to in the least. But I think I did learn what it stood for.

 

Ah, the fine things I learn from this website!

[MNBrew]

By the way, the title of this thread raises the question of 2 MVP candidates on the Brewers, yet the initial post only refers to Braun. Should we assume the 2nd guy is Fielder?

[Ennder]

Quote:

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VORP is offense only. With defense Utley laps him, but defense and MVP almost never go together.

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Ahh thats right, I'm thinking of WARP.

[PeaveyFury]

With defense Utley laps him, but defense and MVP almost never go together.

 

Yeah, the MVP is a lot like the Gold Gloves in that aspect.

[PKBadger]

Isn't it actually the value over a replacement Starfleet officer?

 

 

 

 

Ahh, that's right. I'm thinking of Worf.

[igor67]

Well I think it stands to reason that we'd have more than 1 MVP type candidate. It certainly seem to me that many if not most playoff teams will have more than 1 major star that drives the team. I would suspect that even for the teams that don't generally have 2 lineup MVP types they have one in the line up and one in the rotation who because he pitches jsut doesn't get that same recognition. Santana springs to mind for last years Twins

[uwisfan]

nice Braun article on the cover of Yahoo Sportssports.yahoo.com/mlb;_ylt=AhzAPVhuUjAs.spN4BgSh0Y5nYcB