Juan Pierre?

[JohnBriggs12]

With the return of Manny, Juan Pierre is once again relegated to the Dodger bench. In the 56 games Pierre has started (mostly leading off) he hit .335/.393/.415. Overall he's hitting .328/.387/.417 with 23 steals.

 

Though he played mostly LF, there's no reason at 32 (next year) he can't still play CF.

 

His huge contract has only 2 years left after this season ($10 million in 10; $8.5 million in 11) and doesn't look as out of whack as it did a couple years ago. Given that Cain will not likely be ready next year and the Brewer need for a top of the order hitter and a CF, do the Brewers make a play for Pierre? Maybe not this year, but in the offseason? Yes, I know he doesn't take walks and can't throw, but he's always been able to hit his way on at a rate that his OBP is at least respectable and his ability to get bunts down and be a pest on the bases does cause teams trouble.

[Teatoe993]

I'd only consider it if they took Hall & Suppan's contract. Well maybe just Hall if they throw us a decent pitching prospect back our way.

[dadofandrew]

Why is Pierre a better option than signing a FA for $10M per? Why is he a better option than a AAA vet who would give you 90% of Pierre's production for 5% of the cost.

 

Unless the Dodgers take money back, I don't see any reason to go after Pierre.

[chansen]

Why is Pierre a better option than signing a FA for $10M per? Why is he a better option than a AAA vet who would give you 90% of Pierre's production for 5% of the cost.

 

Unless the Dodgers take money back, I don't see any reason to go after Pierre.

I second that!

[Hate those Rodents]

Is the first question inn reference to Cameron and the second question in reference to Gwynn?

 

I have not watched enough of Pierre this year to know what I think on this one, so I'll defer to the rest of you.

[Never Outhustled]

Jodie Gerut was worth more Wins last year than Pierre was worth each of the last 4 years. If we're desperate for a CF next year, I'd rather go with him at under $2 million than Pierre. Odds are pretty good than Lo Cain will be a productive CF for the Brewers in 2011, I wouldn't want Pierre's big contract then.

[nate82]

Jodie Gerut was worth more Wins last year than Pierre was worth each of the last 4 years. If we're desperate for a CF next year, I'd rather go with him at under $2 million than Pierre. Odds are pretty good than Lo Cain will be a productive CF for the Brewers in 2011, I wouldn't want Pierre's big contract then.

The Brewers could also just bring back Cameron again which wouldn't be a bad move either. The Yankees may want Cameron if Jackson isn't ready next year.

[jackalope02ca]

No thanks. Not with his contract. If Lorenzo Cain pans out that's great otherwise if Cameron is gone I'm sure we'll find a cheap replacement through free agency or trade. I'm not convinced that Cameron won't resign for a year or two when all is said and done.

[Never Outhustled]

The Brewers could also just bring back Cameron again which wouldn't be a bad move either. The Yankees may want Cameron if Jackson isn't ready next year.

That certainly a possiblity, though the Yankees might take Cameron even if Jackson is ready, just because Cameron is a good player. Jackson is having a very solid year in AAA. Either we'll keep Cameron, or get at least 1 draft pick, either way we win.

 

Hart in CF, with McGehee in LF and Braun in RF is also a possiblity, though more of an outside shot.

[twobrewers]

Though he played mostly LF, there's no reason at 32 (next year) he can't still play CF.

The thing is, he never really could play CF.

 

If I remember correctly, he has one of the worst arms in all of baseball.

 

That said, I think Milwaukee fans would love him. They are obsessed with speedy lead-off hitters who play CF.

[dadofandrew]

They wouldn't love him when most runners went from 1B-3B on a single up the middle.

[chansen]

No more Tony Gwynn Jr.

[JohnBriggs12]

Why is Pierre a better option than signing a FA for $10M per? Why is he a better option than a AAA vet who would give you 90% of Pierre's production for 5% of the cost.

 

Unless the Dodgers take money back, I don't see any reason to go after Pierre.

I know he generates hate on here but Pierre is a proven commodity as a leadoff hitter and he's a winner. He's not Tony Gwynn (though Gwynn would look good now). He's always putting the ball in play and he can still run which makes him almost ammune to bad streaks which is a huge issue with this offense. Compared to some of the guys the Brewers have had at the top of the order, he's light years ahead. He's probably not worth $10 million (so it won't take much to get him) but neither was Cameron and his salary actually drops to $8.5 million in 2011.

[endaround]

Immune to bad streaks? Juan Pierre in June .264/.319/.309. The fact that he always puts the ball in play makes him more streaky not less.

 

But you're right Cameron isn't worth $10m. He's worth about $20m

[paulmolitor4]

I wouldn't necessarily argue that Pierre isn't streaky because he's not really that good of a hitter, but I would argue with the notion that putting the ball in play makes you more streaky. I think the hitters that are the least streaky are the ones who put the ball in play and do not strike out much. Not saying that I couldn't be wrong, because maybe that's just my perception. Maybe someone has statistical data to back up the idea or refute the idea. If not, I think it would be interesting research. Although, how do you define "streaky"?

[paul253]

I'd rather go with him at under $2 million than Pierre.

 

Has Jody Gerut even gotten a hit in Milwaukee yet? He is absolutely worthless.

 

Perhaps there is a trade we can explore in the off season for one of the multitude of infielders we'll have. Personally I'd love to acquire a young centerfield prospect because Cain can just as easily move to a corner spot. That would allow us to trade Corey Hart.

[paulmolitor4]

Immune to bad streaks? Juan Pierre in June .264/.319/.309. The fact that he always puts the ball in play makes him more streaky not less.

 

But you're right Cameron isn't worth $10m. He's worth about $20m

A quick check of Pierre's stats this season:

 

55 games where he had 3 ab's or more

In 12 of those 55 games Pierre failed to get a hit

2 times he had consecutive games without a hit (out of those 55 games)

25 multi-hit games

 

Even though I wouldn't advocate going after him because he has a big contract and is a liability defensively, I would have to say he is not streaky in a bad sense and acutally would be a decent guy to have at the top of our order.

 

One caveat: I would trade Bill Hall for him in a heartbeat. Not that the Dodgers are likely to want anything to do with Bill Hall.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm confused why you determine he's not streaky when endaround provided an entire month's worth of data where Pierre stunk.

 

 

His huge contract has only 2 years left after this season ($10 million in 10; $8.5 million in 11) and doesn't look as out of whack as it did a couple years ago.

 

No, his contract is still horrible. I wish people would stop spreading misinformation about Cameron's value, and in the same thread where Pierre's contract is deemed 'do-able'.

[paulmolitor4]

I'm confused as to how you think he provided anything to say he stunk. Also, I would say I provided some pretty good information to say he hasn't been streaky. Only twice has he gone two games in a row without getting a hit. I haven't checked, but how many Brewers players have done that this year. I doubt many, if any. If batting .264 with a .319 OBP for a month stinks, then everyone on the Brewers stinks outside of a few guys. If that's the case we might as well blow the whole team up and start over from scratch. Pierre's numbers in June were not good, but nothing to indicate that he is overly streaky.

 

Also I hate that I'm defending Pierre at all, but I just don't think he is any more streaky than the average player, if not less streaky.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm confused as to how you think he provided anything to say he stunk.

 

The point was made that Pierre isn't streaky. Endaround provided a month's worth of data where Pierre stunk. I'm not seeing how anyone can objectively say that he's not streaky or that he's any less streaky than anyone else.

 

 

Also I hate that I'm defending Pierre at all, but I just don't think he is any more streaky than the average player, if not less streaky.

 

Understood, but I don't see any way in which he's less streaky overall unless you're just looking for guys that go fewer than 3 days between hitting singles.

[paulmolitor4]

Checking game logs I found no regular starter on the Brewers who has done what Pierre has done as far as only having consecutive games (with 3 or more at bats) without a hit twice.

 

Kendall - 4 times

Fielder - 5 times

Counsell - 3 times

Hardy - 6 times (including his big 0-fer stretch)

Braun - 6 times

Cameron - 9 times

Hart - 4 times

 

If you were to include McGehee he has only done it once.

 

Once again, I don't really care for Pierre, but I don't think he is all that streaky.

[paulmolitor4]

TooLiveBrew wrote:

Understood, but I don't see any way in which he's less streaky overall unless you're just looking for guys that go fewer than 3 days between hitting singles.

I guess I'm looking for guys that don't go more than a day without getting a hit. At least that's my attempt at quantifying streaky.

[Never Outhustled]

Has Jody Gerut even gotten a hit in Milwaukee yet? He is absolutely worthless.

Gerut had a higher OPS tlast year than every Brewer except Braun and Fielder, and he wasn't far behind them. He isn't useless, he just hasn't gotten an oppurtunity, and has been extremely mis-managed by Macha.

 

 

As for streakiness, debating that is absolutely useless. season totals are the only thing that effects win totals. Theres no correction factor for streakiness, because it isn't nessecary.

[The Truth]

I like Pierre OK, although dadofandrew is right about his extremely weak arm. I doubt the Dodgers would trade him this season, they are looking at making a run for the World Series and (all puns intended) Pierre off the bench as a pinch-runner and a late defensive backup and a pinch hitter fits the Joe Torre mold well

[endaround]

A player whose entire value is hitting singles (Pierre neither has power nor walks very much) are going to be at the mercy of the defense and luck more than home run hitters and players who do walk. Fielder can hit .100 for a week and still get on base at a decent clip, Pierre can't.