Hall says that he's still the best 3B in the league

[sheethead]

It wasn't in the history of the Cubs. It was a guy they traded for THIS year to fix the hole they have on their bench this year.

 

If he's not on the roster, then he is part of the history of the Cubs organization.

 

If you actually took some time to look at the alternatives you would see for yourself that far less than 50% of the teams in baseball today have a better option. If you don't believe me go look for yourself instead of just repeating the same point without verifying it's veracity.

 

I don't think I have to dig to hard into rosters of GOOD teams to find plenty of utility type players better than Bill Hall. I don't have the time or desire to search for my list of 10-15 candidates that are better. That said, I don't think the Brewers have a choice but to keep him at least through a good portion of 2010. Maybe he will miraculously turn good again in a contract year with no official starting position.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't think I have to dig to hard into rosters of GOOD teams to find plenty of utility type players better than Bill Hall.

 

Here is a list of GOOD teams that would probably like someone who could play shortstop as well as Hall.

The Yankees currently trot out Cody Ransom and his .527 OPS when Jeter takes a day off.

The Twins have Nick Punto and his .543 OPS this season when they want to give their shortstop a day off.

The Rays don't even have a reserve shortstop listed neither does St Loius.

The Cubs trot out the mega reserve Blanco and his 547 OPS this year that pretty much matches his .590 career OPS

The Phillies have the mighty Bruntlett and his .416 OPS. That goes well with his .594 last year.

The Marlins have a guy whose career OPS is .538. I took his career one because they really haven't used him at all this year. Small wonder why

 

I don't have the time or desire to search for my list of 10-15 candidates that are better.

 

Doens't matter how much time you have. There aren't 10-15 players who we can realistically get who si both cheap and better than Hall for that specific role.

[sheethead]

There aren't 10-15 players who we can realistically get who si both cheap and better than Hall for that specific role.

 

Again, you are talking about the SS position only. You are picking the worst backup position players on a select few rosters. If Bill Hall is in company with the players you named, then I change my mind about the Brewers needing to keep him next year. Those players will be gone from those clubs, so why not Hall?

[Thurston Fluff]

Again, you are talking about the SS position only.

 

I selected shortstops because that is the hardest infield position to find a quality backup at. Assuming we actually want someone who can play that spot on occasion Hall's biggest value is because he can do that at about the same level as a majority of players currently on a roster. If Hall couldn't play shortstop I would agree he could be replaced with any number of players like Joe Dillon, Freel, or McGehee.

 

You are picking the worst backup position players on a select few rosters.

 

I'm picking the best backup shortstops on those teams not the worst ones. That only goes to show how bad that spot is in the majors. There are teams like Texas who have three players capable of playing shortstop and if one of the backups could be reasonably viewed as a better alternative I listed them as such. Note that I did list the teams I viewed as having better options in an earlier post. You may have missed it because there aren't that many.

Of all the teams 11 or 12 have a better option which means a majority of teams have no better or worse options. Of course any player who is on a team now must be deemed better than players who are not on a roster. So I took it as a given any player currently on a roster is better than one who is not.

 

Those players will be gone from those clubs, so why not Hall?

 

couple things. First it is far form certain they will all be replaced. Those who have huge contracts will be the least likely ones replaced. If they have any value at all they will be kept simply because it is already money spent. Better to spend that money on something of minimal value than to spend it on none at all. Second who will they be replaced by? If over half the teams have no better options than Hall then what makes you think there will be better options next year?

[craig712]

What bugs me most is just seeing him in the game. If there was a NEED to have him in there, fine. He doesnt deserve to get any starts the way he is playing. And lately, his D has been off from what it was. Hopefully something clicks soonn for him. Its Painful!

[sheethead]

Second who will they be replaced by? If over half the teams have no better options than Hall then what makes you think there will be better options next year?

 

The will be replaced by prospects, other minor league players, or free agents. This is going nowhere. Bill Hall is a sunk cost. If Melvin believes he can do better without paying that much more, then he should do it. Like I said, Hall will likely be around at least through a portion of next year. If he remains as bad as his is right now, he will not finish out the year 2010 on the Brewers roster.

[Thurston Fluff]

We've seen how well minor league players do when playing part time. Melvin is on record as saying he thinks it is better to have veterans in that role. Minor league players are in the minors for a reason. If they are true prospects they should be playing regularly to get good enough to play a major role in the majors. If they aren't true prospects there is little reason to believe they are going to outperform Hall to begin with. If you go the free agent route you either get minimum wage scrap heap crap which I've already shown would be less than a 50/50 chance that we wouldn't actually improve on Hall's production or we pay a larger amount to get Craig Counsell type production. Then the question becomes does a bench player like that contribute so much more than Hall could to warrant using that money there instead of upgrading in other areas.

He is not good but he is not useless. Barring club house problems it only makes sense to cut useless people if you have to pay him either way. He very well could be cut at some point next season if we have someone who makes Hall expendable. That will be a nice surprise but it shouldn't be counted on. There simply aren't that many players who can do what Hall can do defensively and provides more offense. If they did they would be starters.

 

Craig712 IMO is right. He should be the Jody Gerut of the infield. I think as the season goes on we will see that happen. If not this season then next. He'll be the guy who comes in once a week to give Weeks or Hardy/Escobar a break.

[joepepsi]

Craig712 IMO is right. He should be the Jody Gerut of the infield. I think as the season goes on we will see that happen. If not this season then next. He'll be the guy who comes in once a week to give Weeks or Hardy/Escobar a break.

But that is Counsell's role this year. It has expanded because of Weeks' injury, but he was signed as the backup infielder. I hated Counsell's previous 2 year deal, but there is no denying he has value in his role, particularly this year.

 

There's a fallacy to your argument. Hall may have value as a backup ss, but this organization no longer considers him to be in that role. They haven't since 2006. That's why they've had Counsell for 3 seasons. He's the backup ss.

 

Hall's role these last two seasons has been as a "short half" of a 3B platoon. For that role he has almost no value. Therefore his contract should be considered a sunken cost. Going forward to 2010 I'd rather have Counsell back for another season and Hall's spot on the roster taken by another player who can fill a more urgent need.

[sheethead]

There's a fallacy to your argument. Hall may have value as a backup ss, but this organization no longer considers him to be in that role. They haven't since 2006. That's why they've had Counsell for 3 seasons. He's the backup ss.

 

This is what I have been trying to say. Hall is not the backup SS, so why compare his production to other backup SS throughout the league to justify his roster spot?

[Thurston Fluff]

There's a fallacy to your argument. Hall may have value as a backup ss, but this organization no longer considers him to be in that role. They haven't since 2006.

 

Once again it doesn't matter one bit what his role is now or what it was the past three years. What matters is what roles Hall is CAPABLE of. It is clear he is capable of playing shortstop. Shortstop is a very difficult position to find adequate bench help with. Thus Hall's value is as a reserve who can play shortstop.

 

The league is full of players whose roles changed throughout the years so i don't get why Hall's role cannot change with the Brewers.

Hell the viewed Craig Cousell as a starting shortstop about 5 years ago. But the Diamondbacks resigned him to play second base. That can't be. After all he was a shortstop.

Times change and so do players value/role. Hall is now best used as a bench player who has the versitiliy to play all the infield postions. If you can point to one person in the organization not named Bill Hall who still views Hall the same today as they did the last couple years I might then buy into your arguement that the team wouldn't even consider Hall as a possible backup at shortstop next year. Views change. I am sure the Brewer's view of Hall has changed. I would suspect going into next year Hall will not be viewed as anything more than a bench player who can fill the hardest bench role on the team. But according to your logic they cannot because they viewed him as a starter at third or center the past three seasons.

 

Next year Gamel will most likely be the starter. McGehee probalby has played his way into the picture ahead of Hall at this point. SO what makes you think the Brewers wouldn't change their views on what role Hall would play on this team next year?

[joepepsi]

Next year Gamel will most likely be the starter. McGehee probalby has played his way into the picture ahead of Hall at this point. SO what makes you think the Brewers wouldn't change their views on what role Hall would play on this team next year?

 

Because I bet they will prefer bringing back Counsell, who's a better, more consistent glove up the middle and gets on base. But you're right, backup, they could put Hall in that role and hope he brings some righty power in a very limited role.

 

Of course every thing is subject to change at any time, but at this point the 2010 infield looks like Prince, Weeks, JJ (or Escobar), Gamel, McGehee, and either Hall or Counsell. Counsell is the better compliment to McGehee in this scenario.

 

There are several teams out there with crappy ss, so if they were willing to eat 80% of his contract it's possible they could find a taker.

[The Truth]

The fact that Hall has over 200 plate appearances this season already is disturbing and a little astonishing. Even in his 35 HR year of 2006 his OBP was only .345 with a .899

OPS. He's never been phenomenal.

 

He does have a .971 career OPS vs the Reds though. We'll see if he gets a start in Cincy this weekend

[joepepsi]

The obp was always a giveaway he was nothing more than the next Deivi Cruz.

[The Heartbreak Yid]

If the Brewers really want to get Hall out of town, and dont mind eating his remaining salary, my idea would be trade him to the Pirates for a guy who they had very high hopes for but have essentially given up on , Tom Gorzalanny.

[Invader3K]

If the Brewers really want to get Hall out of town, and dont mind eating his remaining salary, my idea would be trade him to the Pirates for a guy who they had very high hopes for but have essentially given up on , Tom Gorzalanny.

 

I liked Gorzelanny in the past. Seemed like he had a lot of potential which just hasn't clicked yet...would not mind at all if the Brewers could give him a shot. The Brewers would definitely have to eat Hall's salary in this scenario though.

[Godspeed]

The obp was always a giveaway he was nothing more than the next Deivi Cruz.

Unfair comparison. Deivi Cruz was a pure hacker who never had a OPB at league average or a BB% within 5 points of the league average. Hall increased his BB/rate (and was above the league average in OBP in '05/'06) every year until leveling off after his '07 position switch and flashed much more power, too.

[zzzmanwitz]

Why are we letting Bill Hall handcuff our team any longer? He is serving ZERO purpose on the team at this point. I don't care about his salary, we are paying it to sit our our bench, why don't we just pay hit to bring down a different team? He needs to go.

[Invader3K]

Bill Hall sounds like a broken baseball player, mentally at least.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/51606002.html

 

"It's disappointing," the Milwaukee Brewers third baseman said. "There's so many words, so many emotions. It's disappointment in myself.

 

"I feel like with the way things are going, they don't have any confidence in me. I feel like I can do nothing to help this team right now."

[Big Cat Dad]

Every time I read an article on Bill Hall, it's like finger nails on a chalk board. He just rubs me the wrong way.

[Invader3K]

Honestly I wonder if, given some of his comments in that interview, he wouldn't be amenable to a stint down in AAA? I think he realizes he won't get better with limited playing time, but also realizes he hasn't been productive and doesn't have a real role with the Brewers right now.

[squambaum]

Honestly I wonder if, given some of his comments in that interview, he wouldn't be amenable to a stint down in AAA? I think he realizes he won't get better with limited playing time, but also realizes he hasn't been productive and doesn't have a real role with the Brewers right now.

Those were my thoughts exactly. He should request to get sent down and get regular AB's. Other than the knock on his pride there is no real downside for him unless of course he doesn't think he could produce at AAA either. Where would he play though? 2nd? At the very least he may hit well enough to raise his trade value to the point where we may be able to do a waiver wire or offseason trade to some team looking to buy low.

[trwi7]

Where's he going to play in AAA though? Gamel has 3B (unless they call him back up), Escobar has SS. Maybe they call up Iribarren and Hall can play 2B?

[Invader3K]

Well, I'd assume someone would be called up so they at least have a bat on the bench regardless...so I would guess either Iribarren or Gamel would be called up to replace him.

[tigerbrew]

Can Bill Hall pitch? Heard he has a strong arm.

[greeg35]

Every time I read an article on Bill Hall, it's like finger nails on a chalk board. He just rubs me the wrong way.

I have to agree. Is he actually complaining about his lack of a role on this team or am I misreading that?