Hall says that he's still the best 3B in the league

[nate82]

Bill Hall has no peers when it comes to standing at the plate admiring doubles.

I can name a few Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Ryan Braun, Aramis Ramirez, Alfonso Soriano, and Andruw Jones. Those are just a couple of names that popped up in my head there are probably a few more that also admire almost HR's that go for doubles.

 

What if Hall would have said what Braun had said would your reaction be any different than when Braun said it?

[Baldkin]

I'm saying, I'd much rather have a guy come out and be confident in his ability, realize he's not doing well than have a guy spouting off (truth or not) about how bad any portion of the team is.

[dlk9s]

Bill Hall has no peers when it comes to standing at the plate admiring doubles.

I can name a few Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez, Ryan Braun, Aramis Ramirez, Alfonso Soriano, and Andruw Jones. Those are just a couple of names that popped up in my head there are probably a few more that also admire almost HR's that go for doubles.

Wrong. Just because Braun has admired one homer per season doesn't mean he stares at doubles. He typically runs pretty hard out of the box. Virtually every batter watches their hard hits for a second - it's not admiration, it's just a natural reaction to see where the ball is going.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Nobody knows his troubles. Really. My heart breaks for a guy who has become something of a laughingstock when he so uncomplainingly changed positions, when he did great damage in recent years to some of our divisional rivals, when he slapped some eye-popping leather. It's sort of like seeing a once-proud man flailing and drunk at the end of the bar. I'd really like him to work something out, or at least come back to respectability, for his sake and for the team's sake.

[PKBadger]

I personally think that Chewbacca if he played for the Brewers is a better 3B, but to be fair his sample at the major league level is still pretty small.

 

As far as I know, he's never played the hot corner either....just 2B and P.

 

 

http://www.wiskate.com/news/data/upimages/chewie-baseball-card.jpg

 

http://www.wiskate.com/news/data/upimages/bdd_Chewbacca.jpg

[TracyThom]

I'm saying, I'd much rather have a guy come out and be confident in his ability, realize he's not doing well than have a guy spouting off (truth or not) about how bad any portion of the team is.

 

I agree with you 100%. Bill Hall wants to stay in Milwaukee. He could be whining and complaining about his lack of playing time, but he is not.

[TheCrew07]

I'm saying, I'd much rather have a guy come out and be confident in his ability, realize he's not doing well than have a guy spouting off (truth or not) about how bad any portion of the team is.

I agree with you 100%. Bill Hall wants to stay in Milwaukee. He could be whining and complaining about his lack of playing time, but he is not.

Didn't he already try that last year only to have even more fans turn on him...

 

I agree that it's better than him thinking "I suck", but that's as far as the positives go. He wastes his talent and everything about his approach at the plate is wrong, he just doesn't get it, it's almost like he thinks he's unlucky. You would think a player in his position would be a little bit humble but off the top of my head I don't recall a player who's struggled like him standing in the box admiring warning track power like he does. I admit to bias, just about everything he does rubs me the wrong way, he's into self promotion, but he doesn't do anything to back it up at the plate and for every really nice play he makes in the field there's a "what the hell was that?" play or base running mistake.

 

I've given up hope on him ever being more than a superb athlete who happens to play baseball... but at least from his point of view he did enough to get paid, and paid very well for his 2 year contribution. I used to get excited when he'd actually come through in a clutch situation, now my enthusiasm about winning is tempered because it means he'll keep getting opportunities to fail.

[sheethead]

I'm saying, I'd much rather have a guy come out and be confident in his ability, realize he's not doing well than have a guy spouting off (truth or not) about how bad any portion of the team is.

 

I agree with you 100%. Bill Hall wants to stay in Milwaukee. He could be whining and complaining about his lack of playing time, but he is not.

Billy is "keeping his mouth shut" because he doesn't want to bring on the 130 dB booing that would ensue if he did. Bill Hall, meet reality. Reality, Bill Hall. Now that you two have met, maybe you can work on not sucking. Be it best 3B in the league or not, Bill Hall sucks. He has for years now. To have this kind of unfounded confidence is borderline schizophrenic. Grow up Bill, start realizing your offensive limitations, and ADJUST!! Thank you anyway Bill, for yet another forum in which to vent your profound, long lasting, and continued sucking.

[phxMILWfan]

http://www.zuguide.com/image/Rosie-O-Donnell-A-League-of-Their-Own.3.jpg

 

He wouldn't even be the best 3rd basemen in "A League of Their Own".

[Thurston Fluff]

I have a great deal of respect for Hall. He works very hard without complaint. The season after he was the team MVP he had legitimate reason to make waves about losing his shortstop job to an unproven rookie but didn't. He moved all over the field for the betterment of the team. By all accounts he is a well liked teammate and an all around good guy. Which is why I chose not to poke fun of him or take his comments literally. Sometimes players don't have to be good to deserve some amount of respect. They just shouldn't be allowed to play as often as they want.

Bill Hall will be around next year. I don't think it is even allowed to have a contract bought out and certainly wouldn't blame him if he refused to if it was. He has value on this team next year as a utility man. It is a lot to pay for that role but it is money already spent so it is what it is. There is no way the team is better next year by eating his contract. All that would happen is we would have to pay Hall's salary and at least $400,000 more for someone to play no better than he does.

[Invader3K]

There is no way the team is better next year by eating his contract. All that would happen is we would have to pay Hall's salary and at least $400,000 more for someone to play no better than he does.

 

Exactly. I wish people on some of the local talk shows would stop screaming about how the Brewers need to "cut him." It's just not going to happen, as the Brewers can't afford to throw that much salary down the drain.

[Teatoe993]

Actually I think it would be pretty easy to find someone who plays better than Hall for the league minimum.

[Thurston Fluff]

Actually I think it would be pretty easy to find someone who plays better than Hall for the league minimum.

 

You really think so? The Cubs have been looking for someone who could do that all season long. He can play anywhere other than catcher and is has shown the ability to hit left handed hitters. His offense is not good bu this defense is adequate to good all over. Last year we had Counsell hit about as poorly as Hall and we gave him a million to come back this season. I think that shows how hard it is to find bench players with the versatility to play anywhere is.

[Brewtacular]

Exactly. I wish people on some of the local talk shows would stop screaming about how the Brewers need to "cut him." It's just not going to happen, as the Brewers can't afford to throw that much salary down the drain.

They spent the money the day the contract was signed. The only thing worse than that contract is to be held hostage by it after the fact. If they have room to increase the payroll they should not avoid addressing 3B because of an old contract.

[sheethead]

Actually I think it would be pretty easy to find someone who plays better than Hall for the league minimum.

 

You really think so? The Cubs have been looking for someone who could do that all season long. He can play anywhere other than catcher and is has shown the ability to hit left handed hitters. His offense is not good bu this defense is adequate to good all over. Last year we had Counsell hit about as poorly as Hall and we gave him a million to come back this season. I think that shows how hard it is to find bench players with the versatility to play anywhere is.

I would be hard pressed to find anyone on the Cubs roster as bad as Bill Hall.

[Teatoe993]

Actually I think it would be pretty easy to find someone who plays better than Hall for the league minimum.

 

You really think so? The Cubs have been looking for someone who could do that all season long. He can play anywhere other than catcher and is has shown the ability to hit left handed hitters. His offense is not good bu this defense is adequate to good all over. Last year we had Counsell hit about as poorly as Hall and we gave him a million to come back this season. I think that shows how hard it is to find bench players with the versatility to play anywhere is.

 

How much is McGehee making? I heard he can play catcher too.

[Thurston Fluff]

I would be hard pressed to find anyone on the Cubs roster as bad as Bill Hall.

 

You didn't look very hard then. They traded for Freel who had and OPS of .640 with KC and .369 with the Cubs. Then they cut him and got Jeff Baker who had a .384 with the Colorado and OPS of .598 with the cubs. Neither of whom could play shortstop which is the hardest position to find adequate bench help at. Lets not forget Andres Blanco and his whopping .547 OPS or even their starting second baseman who has a .665 OPS.

Hall by comparison plays better defense at more positions than any of them and still has an OPS of .595.

 

How much is McGehee making? I heard he can play catcher too.

 

great now lets see him play shortstop. Hall has had more success for a longer period of time than McGehee. Why do you think he is so much more capable of sustaining his partial season of success than Hall was?

 

All I'm saying is his money is better spent by keeping him as a veteran utility player than not having him at all. So far I've seen nothing that shows me we can find someone better who will not only be better but be so much better that they will be worth more than Hall's contract plus their salary.

[Teatoe993]

I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid with McGehee at all. I'm personally waiting for the bottom to drop as well and in no way see him as some long term solution to any of our needs. I'm just using him as an example of a scrap heap guy who is productive. Yes he's playing out of his mind right now, but I was more confident in him to produce in April & May than I was with Hall. Yes McGehee can't play SS, but do you really think the Brewers are gonna give Hall the keys to SS if Hardy gets injured? Even if we didn't have Escobar, I still don't see Hall at SS in that situation.

My opinion is that Hall is not only hurting this team with his horrible approach at the plate, he is hurting this team by using up a roster spot that could easily be filled with a scrap heap guy that in all likelihood would outperform Hall. That roster spot already costs us 8 mil. I just think that the roster spot would be a bit more productive at 8.4 mil instead.

[sheethead]

They traded for Freel who had and OPS of .640 with KC and .369 with the Cubs. Then they cut him

 

Then I would assume he is not on the Cubs roster... check.

 

and got Jeff Baker who had a .384 with the Colorado and OPS of .598 with the cubs.

 

So not as bad as Bill Hall... check.

 

Neither of whom could play shortstop

 

Not relevant, but the Brewers don't need anyone to play shortstop... check.

 

Andres Blanco is worse, I will give you that. This is why I said hard pressed. You came up with a guy making the minimum that has 81 ABs in a minimal role. A player, mind you, that was recalled at the end of May and will likely not be on the Cubs 25-man for much longer. I would be hesitant to state that Bill Hall plays better defense. More positions, sure, but better? Not so sure.

 

All I'm saying is his money is better spent by keeping him as a veteran utility player than not having him at all.

 

I do agree with your main point, but it doesn't take away from how brutally bad he has been for years now.

[Thurston Fluff]

Then I would assume he is not on the Cubs roster... check.

 

No just one of many they have tried so far. They replaced him with someone who has about the same career OPS as Hall does but cannot play shortstop...check.

 

 

Not relevant, but the Brewers don't need anyone to play shortstop... check.

 

You think the team doesn't need a backup shortstop? When has Hardy ever played every game all year without some sort of nagging injury? Of course maybe next year we will have our rookie play every game but I don't think that is a wise plan. Might want to uncheck that one.

 

So not as bad as Bill Hall... check.

 

Baker's career OPS is 767. Halls is 758. Adding in Halls superior versatility I think it make sup for the 9 points less of production. Check.

 

I do agree with your main point, but it doesn't take away from how brutally bad he has been for years now.

 

irrelevant. His is money already spent. The real question isn't how bad he is. it is how much better can we get while spending the same money.

 

If you care to look at the league as a whole you will find very few teams who have a backup shortstop who is appreciably better. I found these teams with a guy I think is better who plays shortstop. none of them are as versatile as Hall but short is the hardest defensive position to fill so I went with that.

Red Sox, White Sox, Detroit, Cleveland, angels, Mats (maybe), Nationals, Pittsburgh, Diamondbacks (about even), Dodgers and Giants.

Roughly 11 teams have as good or better reserve shortstops than Hall is. None are as versatile and we have to pay him one way or the other. It is easy to say we can find scrap heap guys who are better but less than half the teams managed to do that.

[phxMILWfan]

I think the part that is being overlooked is that the players mentioned that are just as terrible as Bill Hall are moving from team to team and fans aren't stuck watching the same player be terrible for 3 or 4 years in a row. I need Bill Hill or Will Hall to come in and give me a different look while they are terrible at the very least. Who know's maybe one of them will play well like McGehee has so far. Go back and read the Brooks Kieschnik interview to remind you of all the talented guys in the minors that NEVER get a shot. If it were my team I'd let Bill Hall walk and spend the 400,000 on the off chance that someone else would hit .250 when they see the field.

[sheethead]

You think the team doesn't need a backup shortstop? When has Hardy ever played every game all year without some sort of nagging injury?

 

I am sure you are aware that Escobar is ready. Hardy goes down, Escobar comes up. I'm not unchecking that one.

 

irrelevant. His is money already spent. The real question isn't how bad he is. it is how much better can we get while spending the same money.

 

First you say the money is spent, then you talk about spending the same money. This seems contradictory to your argument. The question is indeed how bad is Bill Hall. My point is Bill Hall is real bad, has been for quite some time, and his production would not be all that difficult to improve upon. If you disagree, look at his 2007-2009 numbers again. You keep mentioning backup SS, but the fact remains that Bill Hall will not ever play SS again (at least not for the Brewers). He says he is the best 3B in the league, why would he play SS, or CF, or LF (the only other positions he has played)?

[sheethead]

No just one of many they have tried so far. They replaced him with someone who has about the same career OPS as Hall does but cannot play shortstop...check.

 

I said I would be hard pressed to find someone on the Cubs roster as bad as Bill Hall. I didn't say I would be hard pressed to find someone that, in the history of the Cubs organization, was worse than Hall.

[NievesNoNO]

Nobody knows his troubles. Really. My heart breaks for a guy who has become something of a laughingstock when he so uncomplainingly changed positions, when he did great damage in recent years to some of our divisional rivals, when he slapped some eye-popping leather. It's sort of like seeing a once-proud man flailing and drunk at the end of the bar. I'd really like him to work something out, or at least come back to respectability, for his sake and for the team's sake.

I couldn't agree more. For two years the guy might have been the Brewers MVP. Somewhere between being a stud utility guy and mashing 35 HRs and now he's lost everything. He's not even a respectable platoon guy anymore. Even his solid defense can't make up for his offensive shortcomings. I think it's time the Brewers just cut ties with him and wish him the best at reviving his career elsewhere because right now he's taking up a valuable roster spot and doing nothing to validate having it besides having a fat contract. No disrespect to Hall, who seems to be a stand-up guy, but some new scenery would be best for both the Crew and him.

[Thurston Fluff]

I am sure you are aware that Escobar is ready. Hardy goes down, Escobar comes up. I'm not unchecking that one.

 

We are talking about what to do with him for the remainder fo his contract which runs through next year. Next year it is unlikely we will have both Hardy and Escobar here. My entire point is we have spent the money already and we will need someone to occasionally give the starting shortstop a break? Why spend more than you already have if you don't have to. Especially when you have about as good a backup as you could reasonable expect.

 

He says he is the best 3B in the league, why would he play SS, or CF, or LF (the only other positions he has played)?

 

He can say he's the best pitcher in the league, the best ball boy the best green alien and it doesn't change the fact that he can play all those positions. The reason why he will play all those other positions is obvious. He will be told he has to by his boss.

 

The question is indeed how bad is Bill Hall. My point is Bill Hall is real bad, has been for quite some time, and his production would not be all that difficult to improve upon.

 

And I showed you just how bad reserve shortstops are throughout the league. You can say Hall is bad all you want but that doesn't mean it's as easy as you think it is to replace him with someone better. If you actually took some time to look at the alternatives you would see for yourself that far less than 50% of the teams in baseball today have a better option. If you don't believe me go look for yourself instead of just repeating the same point without verifying it's veracity.

 

 

I said I would be hard pressed to find someone on the Cubs roster as bad as Bill Hall. I didn't say I would be hard pressed to find someone that, in the history of the Cubs organization, was worse than Hall.

 

It wasn't in the history of the Cubs. It was a guy they traded for THIS year to fix the hole they have on their bench this year. That makes it relevant to the subject. Of course if you don't want to use him I showed you others that are the same or worse on the Cubs so I wasn't all that hard pressed to find one.

They are having such problems finding someone who can play even at Hall's level they have had to trade two separate times to find someone. So far the best they could come up with is someone whose career is parallel with Hall.

 

While we can both agree Hall is not close to worth the money he's getting I think you are underrating how difficult it is to find a viable bench player who can fill so many roles on the team. It takes more than just saying he sucks and we can easily find someone better to make it so. Just take some time to actually look what there is out there instead of just asserting blindly that we can find better and you might find Hall is more useful on the team than off it.

 

I think it's time the Brewers just cut ties with him and wish him the best at reviving his career elsewhere because right now he's taking up a valuable roster spot and doing nothing to validate having it besides having a fat contract.

 

Would you rather they have Hall as the utility infielder next year at $8.5 million of a Craig Counsell type that would cost the team $9.5 million? That is what you'd have to pay if you ate Hall's contract and paid for someone marginally better. Now add in the fact that most teams do not have someone better as a reserve shortstop and it is just plain bad management to cut him.

Given the way Macha uses his bench I see no reason why you'd want to pay any more than you have to for those reserve guys. They'd play twice a month.