Who is going to replace Villa in the bully?

[TooLiveBrew]

This is the 'Suppan'/'Hart'/'Hardy' thread for the bullpen. Yes, Villy has me banging my head against the wall over his last few outings. No, this does not mean we should start making assumptions about his abilities.

 

You could probably point to just as many bad outings by Hoffman lately... doesn't mean either one should be cut loose.

[JohnBriggs12]

Villanueva is younger than Dillard or Parra. I've always thought they closed the door on him as a starter way too soon. I'd send him down and let him start in Nashville and see if he can revive himself. As for his replacement, 2 bullpen veterans are pitching quite well down there, Ryan Houston and Matt Ginter. There's also the possibility of keeping Burns around when Bush is back.

[FVBrewerFan]

He already has been moved down in the pecking order. Just ahead of Smith. It's not possible to keep him out of close games, because often times there's nobody else left to bring in. Friday's game is a perfect example.

[Ennder]

Villanueva doesn't really have the stuff to be a starter, I think we need to keep him in the bullpen.

[monty57]

This is the 'Suppan'/'Hart'/'Hardy' thread for the bullpen. Yes, Villy has me banging my head against the wall over his last few outings. No, this does not mean we should start making assumptions about his abilities.

 

You could probably point to just as many bad outings by Hoffman lately... doesn't mean either one should be cut loose.

Great post TLB,

 

Baseball in general is streaky. Bullpens are "streakier" than any other position. I think that if Melvin picked up someone like Carlos off the "scrap heap" right now (i.e. someone who's pitched well in the past but is having an off season), we'd all be very excited. We get more emotional about our own players because we all hang on every pitch.

[JohnBriggs12]

Villanueva doesn't really have the stuff to be a starter, I think we need to keep him in the bullpen.

That argument is refuted by the presence of Suppan, Bush, and Looper in the rotation now, none of whom is considered to have great stuff either. The closest any of those guys have to a superior pitch is Looper's splitter. All have a variety of pitches they can throw for strikes to keep hitters somewhat off balance. Villanueva has an assortment of 4 pitches too. I'm not saying he's a future one or two starter, but he's a guy who could be very serviceable as a 4 or 5. Given the lack of starters in the high minors, and his recent struggles in the pen, why not at least keep him in the starter mix instead of having him lose confidence in a pen mopup role?

[FVBrewerFan]

Seems people like to throw out a few bad outings in support of a player, and focus on them if ripping a player. If you look at a bigger sample (2008 to the present) you'll see he's not horrific, but he is at replacement level. Pretty good BB/SO ratio, but the rest of the peripherals aren't that strong. 2008/2009 numbers are as such: "Acceptable" WHIP 1.31/1/1.45, bad ERA 4.07/6.41, and probably the most alarming number- opponents BA: .319/.333. He also gives up HR, I don't have the numbers vs avergae relief pitchers but it seems like he's giving up more than his share.

 

All this tells me he's borderline. I can live with keeping him in the pen a bit longer, and wouldn't shed tears if he's not back next year. Relievers do seem to be hit and miss every year, moreso than other players. Lots of examples of this, but Coffey is a good one. Since Villy is young and doesn't cost much do need to panic.

[monty57]

The closest any of those guys have to a superior pitch is Looper's splitter.

 

Suppan has a terrific meatball pitch he can throw in almost any situation.

 

Kidding aside, I agree that Villy has been thrown around a lot in his career. Others have stated a "lack of a plan" for pitchers who come up through the organization. Dillard has been talked about in this context, and Villy would fall in here as well. He was rushed from the minors a couple of years ago, at a time that the Brewers undoubtedly had pitching questions. He pitched pretty well for a while, and was then given a very short leash as a starter last year, and has been moved around the bullpen since. I know there are differing opinions as to whether there should be defined roles in a bullpen, but Villy has been to the extremes. He's been used as a closer, 8th inning guy, 7th inning guy, "Marmol role," and high leverage and low leverage long man. Just this year, he was envisioned as the closer until Hoffman was acquired. Then, it seemed they were going to use him in the Marmol role (pitch high leverage situations no matter the inning, sometimes for more than one inning). Then Coffey started filling that role, and I'm not sure if they have any plans for Villy's future.

 

Briggs, I guess I'm more or less with you. I'd like for them to have a plan for his future. If they expect him to be a closer in the coming years, tell him that, and try to use him in the 8th inning (once he's throwing well) to get him used to what goes into being a closer. If they don't see him as a future closer, he seems to have a higher ceiling than that of your typical middle reliever, so they may be best served doing what you're suggesting and sending him back down to work as a starter. Dillard doesn't seem to be putting up the numbers you'd like to see as a starter in AAA, but he pitched well as a reliever last year, so maybe have the two of them switch places.

[Ennder]

That argument is refuted by the presence of Suppan, Bush, and Looper in the rotation now, none of whom is considered to have great stuff

 

Yes but Bush has excellent control and Looper and Suppan are groundball pitchers. Villanueva is flyball pitcher with mediocre stuff who walks too many guys, he doesn't have a single tool you like in a starter.

[Never Outhustled]

He already has been moved down in the pecking order. Just ahead of Smith. It's not possible to keep him out of close games, because often times there's nobody else left to bring in. Friday's game is a perfect example

Villy should have been moved down in the pecking order to mop up guy for awhile now, but he hasn't been. He pitched thursday instead of Defilice, and he pitched friday when McClung was available. Those decisions had a big hand in costing us 2 wins.