UFC 100

[rwa12]

Fedor wants a one fight deal...he is signed to a different promotion that allows him to fight in Affliction. The last thing the UFC wants is for Fedor to come in, win and leave. Lesnar could certainly give him trouble, as his size will pose a problem for all heavyweights. Not sure if his striking is refined enough to bully Fedor, at the very least, Fedor would test his chin. Would love to see Carwin-Lesnar. I would guess it will be awhile for that fight, as Dana will want to milk Lesnar's popularity as long as he can. Will be interesting to see if Kimbo develops on TUF, I imagine Dana would drool at the thought of Lesnar-Kimbo, and the money that fight would pull in...regardless of the talent.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Lesnar could certainly give him trouble, as his size will pose a problem for all heavyweights. Not sure if his striking is refined enough to bully Fedor, at the very least, Fedor would test his chin.

 

Lesnar's striking and stand up are pretty sloppy. His size and strength make up for it, but against a guy like Fedor, he can't afford to be sloppy. Brock's first and foremost a wrestler, and he's always going to be best served taking his opponent down, getting in the mount, and just bludgeoning them into submission where technique isn't nearly as important as it is in the standup game.

 

Fedor would certainly test Lesnar's chin, as would someone like Cain Velazquez. The question is, can either of them keep him from taking them to the ground and just wearing them out with his massive body?

[radman12484]

I'm not a big MMA guy, I like wrestling myself. What are the chances there could be a Lesnar/Lashley fight? I know there's a lot of different MMA leagues or whatever so I don't know if thats like crossing leagues. Idk just a thought. Lesnar comes off as a prick regardless of what hes doing. WWE he was a prick, try out of the Vikings a prick, now this.

[Roscoe Chill]

Lesnar is just big and athletic..not so much a great fighter...but so big that he's going to be tough to beat.

That said, he wouldn't beat Fedor. I just don't think he's mentally strong enough. I hope we get to see the fight, but I'm not holding my breath. Fedor is special enough to fight on his own terms, but I don't think Dana White is going to agree to those terms, as others have pointed out. Fedor is a calm, cool, assasin. You pick your poison: deadly submission on the ground, or one punch knockout power.

I'm not sure why you think Fedor is fighting in the "minor leagues" Roco. The UFC Heavyweight division is weak for the most part. There isn't anyone as good as Josh Barnett right now, and that's who Fedor is fighting next.

Lesnar is improving though, as before his victory over Mir on Saturday night, he had only beaten a has been in Heath Herring, and a 45 year old 220 pound heavyweight to win the belt. Had he lost to Mir the other night, he'd have been only a sideshow because of his WWE background and imposing size, but he did win, and he really isn't going to have much of a challenge until/unless the fight we all want to see happens with Fedor.

[phxMILWfan]

Not sure the fight matched the hype but it was still entertaining. I just wish they would have thrown in an under card fight or two. I paid 55 bucks, would it have killed Dana to include another fight? Why was Fitch after the headline fight? How many people were interested in that fight following Lesnar-Mir? It would have been better off as the 2nd televised fight of the night.

They had to bump the Fitch fight til last to make sure the Main Event ran in the alloted time. The last thing they wanted was to see the main event get cut short due to time restraint. Undercard fights aren't going to get shown if there's not enough time. I'll take 5 great main card fights over 5 crappy fights and 2-3 undercard fights any day.

 

phx, just to address your "greasegate" comments about St. Pierre/Penn fight. I might have been tempted to see Penn's side of it, had he not whined like a $$@*% for weeks and weeks after the fight. And then his mom saying "I was worried my baby was going to die".

 

GSP is hands down one of the classiest, respectful, and respected guys in the sport. I truly believe if he was greased, it was coincidental/accidental. Penn is nothing but a crybaby, and proved it with the way he handled himself after getting completely destroyed the 2nd time they fought.

 

For what it's worth, I've had the chance to meet GSP, so my opinion may be a little biased. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

I totally admit I'm a Penn fan. I also gave credit to GSP. It's tough to be a fan of a guy and not get caught up in what the opponent says. I absolutely admit GSP is a great fighter. I have a ton of respect for him after UFC 100. I just wish BJ would have won.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I totally admit I'm a Penn fan. I also gave credit to GSP. It's tough to be a fan of a guy and not get caught up in what the opponent says. I absolutely admit GSP is a great fighter. I have a ton of respect for him after UFC 100. I just wish BJ would have won.

I am/was a fan of BJ Penn, I just am really disappointed in the way he handled himself after that. It really seems like he was trying to de-legitimize GSP's victory, which was horribly one sided.

 

Penn needs to realize he's a 155 pounder. He can't hang at 170, no matter what he thinks. If he loves to fight, he needs to fight in the division that he can and should dominate, and be happy with that.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

 

I'm not sure why you think Fedor is fighting in the "minor leagues" Roco. The UFC Heavyweight division is weak for the most part. There isn't anyone as good as Josh Barnett right now, and that's who Fedor is fighting next.

 

I think people have taken to calling the UFC heavyweight division weak because they're all beating up on each other. I'm hearing "Nog's washed up", which is simply not true. He's 32 years old and lost a fight to a Frank Mir, who's one of the best fighters in the world, while Mir was in the best shape of his life.

 

They have 2 of the best young prospects in Cain Velazquez and Shane Carwin. They have a former Pride superstar (Cro-Cop) who claims he's back in shape, and hopefully he can prove it next time out. They have an outstanding striker in Cheik Kongo who's had a good run in the UFC.

 

The only guys outside the UFC that I'd say would make the division better would be (obviously) Fedor, Overeem, and Barnett. Fedor's been mopping up lately on former UFC fighters who are nothing close to what they used to be (Sylvia, Arlovski, Lindland) and a couple of guys with 7 pro fights (Hunt) and 3 pro fights (Choi) who was nothing but a freak show.

 

UFC's heavy division might be lacking slightly in quality right now, but by and large it's safe to say that as things currently stand, the best young fighters are probably going to funnel towards that division. How long will aflliction or Strike Force be able to compete with Zuffa pricewise for the best talent? Obviously for some of these guys, it's not just about money, but getting paid the way the UFC can pay guys, they can afford to make a living fighting, and not have to work and train and work and fight. The only way to truly become an elite fighter is to be completely dedicated to fighting, and the UFC is one of the few organizations that has the track record to be able to pay fighters to do so.

 

If Fedor truly wants to go down in history as the greatest heavyweight (and maybe overall) fighter in the young history of MMA, he owes it to himself and the fans to get into the UFC and face the best challenges there are.

[phxMILWfan]

I totally admit I'm a Penn fan. I also gave credit to GSP. It's tough to be a fan of a guy and not get caught up in what the opponent says. I absolutely admit GSP is a great fighter. I have a ton of respect for him after UFC 100. I just wish BJ would have won.

I am/was a fan of BJ Penn, I just am really disappointed in the way he handled himself after that. It really seems like he was trying to de-legitimize GSP's victory, which was horribly one sided.

 

Penn needs to realize he's a 155 pounder. He can't hang at 170, no matter what he thinks. If he loves to fight, he needs to fight in the division that he can and should dominate, and be happy with that.

I agree with you on this especially now that there are quite a few legit challengers at light weight. After he beat Joe Stevenson and Sean Sherk there wasn't much for him at the time. Now he can fight Kenny Florian, Diego Sanchez dropped down in weight and is legit, Clay Guida would be a great match up down the road, Tyson Griffin, and I have to admit I don't know as much about Gray Maynard of Frankie Edgar but they are highly ranked.

 

GSP walks around at a lighter weight than perhaps any other Welterweight. So it wasn't as huge of a size difference as if BJ was fighting Thiago Alves at Welterweight. BJ fought GSP well the first time and it had alot of people excited for the fight so while the outcome was extremely one sided it wasn't a bad decision for BJ to take the fight.

[Roscoe Chill]

Roco, I hope you're not saying that Fedor isn't already considered the best fighter of all time, and I hope you're not saying that he could make more money in the UFC than what he's doing for himself now. The UFC COULD pay him more money, but will they? That's the question and situation that is preventing Fedor from coming over. It's not as much Fedor as it is Dana White. And this is coming from a HUGE UFC fan. And quite frankly, a huge Dana White fan as well.

For instance, not taking win bonuses and other bonuses in to consideration, Lesnar made $400,000 for the fight the other night, and Mir made $45,000. GSP made $200,000, and I think Henderson $100,000 (? before knockout and win bonuses) I believe to put things in perspective. Fedor would probably want money that I'm not sure the UFC would give him, primarily because of pride.

I do agree with you on the up and comers in the heavyweight division. But with a little more reserved attitude. I'm sure Nogueira and Couture will be a fine fight, but neither of those guys is really a contender anymore. Kongo is a pretty good fighter, but is he a future champion? Could he really beat Arlovski for instance? Cain Velazquez is a beast. But who has Carwin beat? No one except for Gabe Gonzaga (who I really like). And Cro Cop had to be wooed with an offer he couldn't refuse from the owner of the UFC to come back instead of Dana White.

I guess I'm rambling, and my main point is that Dana White is the one that is holding Fedor to UFC back. They should let him come in on his terms (one fight at a time).


EDIT: Forgot to add other MMA organization salaries. The last two Fedor opponents Tim Sylvia (800,000) and Arlovski ($1,500,000). Fedor made $300,000 in both fights, but reportedly received a huge signing bonus before signing with Affliction, and holds rights to footage etc. Josh Barnett even made $500,000 in the last Afflicition fight. So, the UFC does not pay well in comparison.

[homer]

Found this on CNN:

 

But White remains confident he'll eventually sign Fedor Emelianenko, the Russian heavyweight considered among the sport's top pound-for-pound fighters. Emelianenko fights in Anaheim, Calif., on Aug. 1 to finish his contract with Affliction, and White said he'll go after the Russian striker with an open wallet.

 

"Eventually, Fedor is going to be here," White said. "I want him to come to the UFC. ... We'll do Brock vs. Fedor, and it'll be a huge fight. He's obviously contractually obligated to fight (in Anaheim), and once that's over, we'll see how it goes."

[phxMILWfan]

Dana is a smart guy. He'll figure out how much more money Fedor fighting in the UFC will generate and then pay Fedor as much as he can. He has to believe that bringing Fedor in would grow his brand so much that it wouldn't matter that he is profiting the same amount. I'd even go so far to say that he would be willing to make a little less on that fight in an effort to put Affliction out of business. If Fedor fights in the UFC and then Affliction goes 9 or 10 months with out a Fedor fight, they're finished right? It would be profitable for the UFC in the long run to take a loss on a pay per view fight or 2 with Fedor. I think it has been mentioned already but the only reason Dana can't bring Fedor in for a 1 and done situation is because if Fedor wins and is the belt holder and never comes back, they first of all look stupid and second of all we have to do find another champion again.

[Roscoe Chill]

Well it's not like the UFC hasn't had that situation before. Randy Couture was the Heavyweight Champion and got in to a contract dispute (sound familiar Jon Fitch, Cro Cop, Tito Ortiz etc) with the UFC. So, the UFC gave the Interim Heavyweight Belt to Nogueira. Couture came back and Lesnar beat him. Mir beat Nogueira, and that's the story of why both Mir and Lesnar held belts before Saturday Night.

 

I saw that Dana White was saying that too homer, but earlier in the year, he was dissing Fedor with expletives and dismissing him as someone the UFC didn't need. I'm happy to see his tune has changed. However Fedor just said in the last week that the UFC's offers up to this point have not made any sense for him to accept. The UFC still has some work to do.

 

Jon Fitch didn't want to sign an agreement for the video game a few months ago, and White kicked him AND ALL OF HIS TEAMMATES out of the UFC. Obviously they're back, but that hardass attitude isn't going to get Fedor in with them I don't think.

[phxMILWfan]

I know they had that situation before. I think that makes it less likely that they bring Fedor over for 1 fight though. The small fighter contracts is kind of necessary to grow the sport. I'd be interested to see where all the money is going. They can't make very much money when the fight is on Spike, whether it is a Fight Night or a fight that was going to be pay per view then is changed. It may have been 2 years ago when they gave away a fight by putting it on Spike.

[Roscoe Chill]

Yeah they put that fight (with Anderson Silva) on Spike because Affliction had it's first pay per view the same night.

 

I love the UFC, but let's not overlook the fact that it's pretty common knowledge that there is a lot of info out there in regards to their contracts and how they are not very fighter friendly. Paulo Thiago is fighting on the main card in UFC 100 and he makes $8,000? That's absurd.

[igor67]

I'm not anti-Dana White (nor necessairly pro either), but you just can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth at face value. The money thing is hard to guage because he has largely stuck to his guns on not getting into huge bidding wars for the star of the month. Considering he's still standing and truthfully I don't see that he can't survive without Fedor.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I'm not anti-Dana White (nor necessairly pro either), but you just can't believe anything that comes out of his mouth at face value. The money thing is hard to guage because he has largely stuck to his guns on not getting into huge bidding wars for the star of the month. Considering he's still standing and truthfully I don't see that he can't survive without Fedor.

Yeah, they absolutely can survive without Fedor. Who else does Affliction have besides Fedor? They have a handful of good fighters, and one marquee star.

 

The UFC has Lesnar, Couture, Rampage, Machida, Griffin, Silva, Henderson, GSP, BJ Penn etc, etc, etc. They have multiple headlining fighters. Obviously guys like Randy and Henderson are a little long in the tooth, but they still have mega-popularity, and people will pay to see them fight.

 

When Affliction goes under (and Strike Force, and every other promotion trying to compete with UFC), the question will be "can Fedor survive without the UFC?" Obviously he doesn't need the dough, but who will be otu there for him to fight?

[Roscoe Chill]

You're seriously underestimating how much MMA is out there, and how much it is growing. I agree, that Affliction is probably not going to last, but something else will always pop up. Mark Cuban is after Fedor for HDNet which shows A LOT of MMA. He'll always have options. Fedor has said that the UFC contract is too restrictive. And again, I think the UFC is the best, and I even like Dana White. But when Frank Mir, the interim heavyweight champ is making only a guaranteed $45,000 and only $90,000 with his second win over Brock Lesnar it had happened...and then you look at what guys like Matt Lindland get for Affliction events ($300,000) and I just don't see how you can think a lot of these fighters look at the UFC in the same light as a fan.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Oh, I know what's out there. I've been in attendance in places showing *pro* fights that weren't much bigger than a lunch room. I've been in shows for quite a ways around, and have a very good friend who's fought professionally in about a dozen different promotions, and venues from Canada, to Wisco, Florida, and even Russia. I'm not going to sit and post credentials, that doesn't mean jack, and I understand that.

 

What I'm getting at, and what I hope comes through, is that I *do* understand the way the game is played. Right now, Affliction, Strike Force, and others HAVE TO pay way more than UFC just to get talent. If you think that anything less than 95% the good, young fighters that are working their asses off in thousands of gyms across America want to be somewhere other than UFC, I'll respectfully disagree. I've been in the gyms, I've rolled with the guys, I've talked with some of pros, and what they ALL aspire for is to get that call from Joe friggin' Silva. My buddy text messages Joe after every one of his fights, and says "JOE! GET ME IN! I JUST WON BY HEAD KICK KO!" or something to that effect. My friend did get one fight in the UFC, which ended in an unfortunate no-contest. Another friend of mine had 2 fights in the UFC (back 3-4 years ago), went on to Bodog, and had much success. But that didn't come close to just getting to *be* in the UFC, in his own words. (He trains with Lesnar up in Minny now, hoping to get into the UFC again)

 

UFC gets thousandsd of audtion tapes for each season of TUF, and thousands more who are sending fight tapes to them, just in the hope that they'll even get on the undercard of an event somewhere.

 

The UFC is where almost everyone wants to be. Affliction will fade, Strike Force will fade, just like Bodog, Pride, and all who came before. Love them or hate them, Dana White and the Zuffas are the rulers of the roost right now, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

[Roscoe Chill]

I agree with everything you're saying. The only problem is we're not talking about guys that are aspiring to make it. We're talking about the best fighter in the world who doesn't like the fact that winning a belt and successfully defending just makes the contract never ending, and he doesn't like the fact that they won't let him fight anywhere else (sambo). Basically, if Fedor doesn't have the leverage, doesn't have the fame, and isn't as good as he's supposed to be, why are we talking about this?

[DuWayne Steurer]

I agree with everything you're saying. The only problem is we're not talking about guys that are aspiring to make it. We're talking about the best fighter in the world who doesn't like the fact that winning a belt and successfully defending just makes the contract never ending, and he doesn't like the fact that they won't let him fight anywhere else (sambo). Basically, if Fedor doesn't have the leverage, doesn't have the fame, and isn't as good as he's supposed to be, why are we talking about this?

I don't disagree that Fedor has valid reasons for not wanting to lock himself down to the UFC. I'm just saying if he wants to fight the best competition, the UFC is 99% likely to be the place to do it. (Barnett not withstanding of course).

[Roscoe Chill]

Fair enough, but I still am not impressed with the heavyweight division of the UFC for the most part. Maybe it's because the Light Heavyweight division is just ridiculous, I don't know. If Fedor does come over to the UFC, you'd definitely see him fight Lesnar and Couture right off the bat. I think he ends Lesnar's honeymoon, and Couture is pushing 50. Sure, there's always a guy like Velazquez who I'm really high on, and Mir, who I'm still high on. I just think you'd see Lesnar-Couture-Lesnar or something along those lines. So, not necessarily a huge jump in competition in my opinion, if that makes sense. I'd rather see him face Barnett...but I know that's only one fight as well.

[phxMILWfan]

I think the weight class or weight classes they pick for TUF are usually a good indication of what weight class needs a new star or two. When Amir Sadollah won there didn't seem to be much at middleweight, just a year or so ago they needed light weights, now they could use an up and coming star at heavy weight. I don't know how many legit contenders are needed at a weight class for it to be strong. Obviously you have your champ and a top contender. If you have 2 or 3 other guys that could beat the champ that's fairly strong. Now at Heavy weight you have Lesnar, Mir, Velazquez, Carwin, Nogueira, Couture, Gonzaga, Kongo, and Cro Cop. That's pretty good. Obviously after Lesnar and Mir you go down a tier, then Velazquez, Carwin, Nogueira, Couture, then down a tier to Gonzaga, Kongo, and Cro Cop.

 

These rankings are interesting. I guess they don't really support my arguement but I found them interesting. I think UFC fans are definitely spoiled by the light heavyweight class more than anything. There are more current rankings out there but I like this tier system.

 

http://www.mmaranks.com/

[Roscoe Chill]

And now Josh Barnett tests positive for steroids, and will not fight Fedor on 8/1. On the surface, you'd think that would push Fedor one more step in the direction of UFC. But then you read that whoever fights Fedor in place of Barnett on 8/1 will make $500,000 ($100,000 more than Lesnar made at UFC 100) and I just don't know.

[Nottso]

For 500 grand, I'll fight him. How long's it gonna take him to knock me out?

[jwaltz]

It would probably be in your best interest to pass out as quickly as possible. If you can, faint before he touches you.