Suppan or plan B or C

[dpapo]

While we all wait to see what happens with Suppan. What do you think the Brewers should do:

1. Sign Suppan, with the 4 years and 10 million per year as the starting point. And if you do, how high would you go with Suppan before you would go to plan B or C.

2. Go with plan B, which would probably be Carlos Villanueva or possible a Jeff Weaver or Joel Pineiro.

3. Go with Plan C. Sign, and you can take your pick, Steve Trachsel, Tony Armas, John Thomson, Runelvys Hernandez, Chan Ho Park, Mark Redman, Ramon Ortiz, Brandon Claussen, Bruce Chen, Brian Moehler, Russ Ortiz,...to compete with Vilanueva for the 5th sport in the rotation.

 

I put Weaver in plan B just based on the level of interest from other teams, which may make him a bit more expensive than some of the other pitchers listed, not so much on talent. Edit: Now that I think of it, Joel Pineiro will probably be the next expensive pitcher on that list as a number of teams have also shown in interest in him as well.

I also didn't include Ohka as the Brewers don't really seem all that interested in bringing him back for whatever reason. Maybe they know something about his arm problems that they haven't mentioned.

And they have been trying all winter, unsuccessful thus far, to obtain another starting pitcher via trade.

So, just basically going with the options we know they do have at the moment. What would you do?

[greeg35]

1. Suppan, but go no higher

2. Carlos- I think he's earned a shot.

3. Only sign one of those "other guys" if the price is right (low)

[Brian the Automator]

If the Brewers lose out on Suppan, I'd be fine with Villanueva. The caveat would be that I'd want the brewers to sign the best pitchers available who would be willing to take minor league deals (the Rick Helling types), throwing decent money at them or loading them up with incentive clauses.

 

I think Villanueva could be as good as Suppan, but the addition of Suppan helps cure that whole depth problem.

[TooLiveBrew]

My guess as to why they've left Ohka alone is that his unjury in '06 was a partially torn rotator cuff, which does not bode well for the near future (probably the same reason a guy with a career ERA of 4.04 & ERA+ of 111 hasn't signed a deal yet)

 

I think CV is the obvious second option to Suppan, which is nice since he's already inexpensive Brewer property through 2009, after which he hits arbitration.

 

My third option (from that list) would be John Thomson. My only worry is injury, although I don't know the specifics. He seems a solid choice off a list of question marks, unless his injury trouble is severe. In any event, any of those guys would be 1-yr, cheap deals, or else no dice

[brewmann04]

if we lose suppan i say give Carlos the chance for the 5th spot

[endaround]

I say Villeneauva should get the spot regardless of Suppan. I guess I just don't like pitchers who in their best year have an OPS against of 801 (yes Vargas, thats you).

[greeg35]

good point, end. I forgot about Vargas.

[JohnBriggs12]

I agree with endaround.

 

Vargas hasn't done enough to block a young starter with the promise Villanueva showed in 06.

 

At worse, Villanueva's earned an equal shot to win that job in spring regardless of Suppan.

[Katuluu]

I've always liked Runelvys as a bullpen candidate. But that's probably just because I dig his name. Runelvys. That sucker just rolls off the tongue.

[Nader Raider Tim]

I think Suppan should be option #1 obviousally. Even if we get Suppan I think Villenueva should at least be given a fair shot at the #5 spot. Vargas could then be our long relief pitcher.

 

Option #2: Sign Joel Pinero. Tell Pinero that the #4 or #5 spot is his to lose (apparently he really want's a starting job), have Pinero, Vargas, Villenueva compete for the last two spots. If Villenueva wins a job then either Pinero or Vargas could fill the long relief/spot starter roll.

 

Quite honestly I think that Villenueva should get a starting job this year. Unless he falls flat on his face.

 

If Melvin thinks that Villenueva is a long term part of the Brewers plans in the rotation then Melvin will give him at least half of a year in the rotation. When the young bats were coming up I seem to remember Melvin saying that he wanted to get one at least 200 AB's before he would call up another. I don't see why Melvin wouldn't try to do something similar with pitchers.

 

Villlenueva getting 15-20 starts before Gallardo, potentially, being called up. (Probably next year)

[JohnBriggs12]

My plan B would be to sign Jorge Sosa.

 

He's only one season removed from being a very serviceable starter with the Braves. I'd slot him in the long relief, emergency starter role.

[dadofandrew]

Trachsel is a much better option that other names on the list.

 

I assume Rod Lopez, Jon Lieber, and tradeable guys will be reconsidered as Plan B.

[giffted1]

Plan B

 

 

A rotation of Sheets, Capuano, Bush, Vargas, and Villaneva looks just fine to me. We have Jackson and Gallardo waiting in AAA, and the money we'd save by not signing Suppan could be used to take on some salary in a trade or sign an impact player next offseason.

 

Carlos Villanueva did great in 50 major league innings and continued to dominate when sent to AAA. He deserves a spot in the Brewers rotation, and I don't see why we'd sign someone to potentially block him.

 

Vargas's numbers may not look great at first, but when you look at his numbers away from the launching pad in Arizona you get a better look at what kind of pitcher he is. He may not be as durable as Suppan, but the upgrade there is not worth 10 million a year.

 

People act like we have major holes in the rotation, but I think we should be more worried about the bullpen and our offense. Our outfield situation still hasn't been fixed and the bullpen is full of question marks.

[GAME05]

I figure Plan B without Suppan is not to make more moves and just hope and pray that everyone stays healthy.

 

I think Villy could be a decent starter, too, but it's more a question of having zero insurance when a starter goes down. Beyond Villy all we've got is a promising minor-leaguer who hasn't pitched in AAA yet, and that's pretty scary. ZJ has a ways to go yet.

[splitterpfj]

Runelvys Hernandez has signed with Boston.

[Katuluu]

Touche Theo. Touche.

[pogokat]

trachsel is a pretty boring pitcher, but i would be very confident that he could through 180 innings with an ERA less than 4.50

 

since they might could sign him for 2/10 million, he's a solid deal..

[sbrylski]

Plan A

Offer Jeff Suppan a 3 year / $30 mil or a 4 year / $36 mil contract. Obviously he won't accept, so we don't really have to make the offer at all making plan B actually plan A.

 

Plan A

Target Pineiro, Redmon, or Brian Lawrence to pitch long man and compete with Vargas and Villanueva for the final two spots. (Or Trachsel)

[TooLiveBrew]

I agree in theory on Trachsel. He's not ancient, and he's not a velocity pitcher, so it's not a big deal about his age (36). However, his ERA spiked to 4.97, and ERA+ slipped all the way down to 87 in 2006. He still managed to go 15-8 with that explosive NYM offense, though.

 

Two quotes (per Rotoworld):

 

#1 -

Quote:

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"I know what it's like to get hit with a line drive. I know what it's like to pitch with your shoulder torn up. I know what it's like to be out there in a lot of different circumstances. And I played with guys who, when the first thing is not perfect with them, they don't want to take the ball. That's what I saw in that situation. I believe I'm totally correct. I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way." (ESPN's Jeff) Brantley thinks the Mets have lost confidence in Trachsel

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#2 -

Quote:

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Some members of the Mets' organization were upset at Steve Trachsel, questioning the validity of his injury and for what they believe amounted to him quitting on the team in Game 3 (2006 NLCS). According to the New York Times, a couple of members of the organization were critical of Trachsel, who retired just 10 of 12 batters before coming out in the second injury with what was called a thigh injury. "He took himself out," one person said. Another scoffed, "Contusion of the thigh?" when hearing the reason for Trachsel coming out of the game.

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While I will always try to form my own opinions of players, this is a red flag. When you've got a bunch of baseball players/guys questioning him, I think that's a very valid concern. Players (and ex-players) tend to be the first to stick up for a guy when he gets hurt. (Unless it's JJ Hardy, in which case, that would be me http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif )

[SheetsCyYoung04]

What about Mark Mulder? Wouldnt mind gambling on him for a year. Villanueva/Vargas look like nice backup plans if Mulder cant get back on track. But the under 3.5 era upside is there.