You have to give to get (Fielder to ? this offseason)

[NievesNoNO]

Let me say first I think the Brewers should shell out the cash for Prince. The Brewers haven't had too many true difference makers in the lineup over the years and now they have two in Fielder and Braun. With those two locked up for the next 6-7 years they can scatter in the younger talents from the farm and bargin vets every year and still have a solid offense no matter who's around them.

 

However, in the spirit of the thread, maybe Tampa will be willing to shell out for him (prospects and the cash). I know they're not a large market team, probably more financially strapped than the Brewers at this point, but they do have a new stadium on the horizon and have got the pitching to spare. Tampa gives two of Wade Davis, Jeremy Hellickson, and Matt Moore, plus Desmond Jennings.

[interestobserver]

Tampa would be the last team to take a guy traded for salary reasons.

[paul253]

I still say I'd rather just see them hold onto him for the next two years, try to re-sign him, and assuming he goes elsewhere, take the draft picks.

 

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but why on earth would you take the picks? Haven't the last two drafts turned you off to that?

 

I had always been for trading Fielder, but now I officially change my mind. We have positional players that can fill almost every position within 3 years, meaning we won't have to pony up for the likes of Hart, Hardy, or Weeks. Braun is signed long term for a very reasonable salary. I'd give Prince what he wants. Braun and Fielder in this lineup for the next 6 or 7 years can turn into the next Yount/Molitor. Within 3 years you surround them with guys like Gamel, Escobar, McGehee, Cain, Gillespie, Salome, Lucroy, Green, and Lawrie (all for very cheap) Bullpen wise you have help on the way in the form of Wooten, Braddock, and maybe even Mike Jones or Roque Mercedes. Over the next two seasons you lose a ton in salary from Suppan, Hall, Cameron, Hoffman, Kendall, and Looper. Money wise, and future wise, I think it makes sense to offer Fielder a long term deal at maybe $15-$16 million a year.

[Invader3K]

The draft situation this past year definitely ticked me off, but I hope it was just a fluke that won't happen again. It did go to show that you can't necessarily bank on things in the draft panning out.

 

I do agree with your premise that they should make a hard push to re-sign Fielder. Braun and Fielder have proven to be one of the most potent offensive combos in the game. I just don't know if it's in the cards or not. Your idea of surrounding them with young, cheap talent makes sense, though.

[naivin]

We could certainly get a good indication as to the Brewers intentions where Prince is concerned based on what the do or do not do at the trade deadline. Obviously any significant decisions they make are being done against the backdrop of his looming free agency. Clearly, if he can remain healthy, he's a potential HOFer. I suspect the Brewers want to keep him around, but I also suspect Prince has every intention of going to market. Makes things a bit tough for the Brewers as they almost have to commit to a course before they can do anything else.

[LouisEly]

I agree. At this point I'd almost be inclined to ride out Fielder for the next couple seasons and then take the comp picks.

 

While I am in the camp of "no need to trade him any time soon", I am absolutely not in the "take the comp picks" camp. Not so much because of the last two drafts, but because Prince is that good where they could get a lot more for him in a trade then the value of a late first round pick and a sandwich pick. Those picks would have to turn out to be Matt Cain and Yo Gallardo for that to be worthwhile, and the odds of that happening are very, very slim. (A comparable might be 2005 when the Red Sox got Ellsbury at #23 and Buchholz at #42, but I don't make that trade straight-up for Fielder.)

 

Honestly, I think Prince at 25 years old is on the verge of being the best hitter in the game not named Pujols, and the fact that Prince is a lefty makes him that much more valuable. I say exhaust all efforts to sign him, but if that can't be done then deal him because there is a 95% chance that they will get more in a trade than what two draft picks will bring.

[endaround]

Except if you trade Fielder you go from being a playoff team to not. Its not draft picks versus return in trade, its Fielder for 1 year and draft picks vs return in trade

[naivin]

Except if you trade Fielder you go from being a playoff team to not. Its not draft picks versus return in trade, its Fielder for 1 year and draft picks vs return in trade

Not necessarily though, as the money you don't need to pay Prince could go towards another FA or two to help fill the void for that 1 year (and they would obviously probably be around a few years after that as well). He's gonna be around $10-11,000,000 next year right? Its not the like the Brewers would just plan to replace him with Mike Rivera.

[paulmolitor4]

Except if you trade Fielder you go from being a playoff team to not. Its not draft picks versus return in trade, its Fielder for 1 year and draft picks vs return in trade

Not necessarily though, as the money you don't need to pay Prince could go towards another FA or two to help fill the void for that 1 year (and they would obviously probably be around a few years after that as well). He's gonna be around $10-11,000,000 next year right? Its not the like the Brewers would just plan to replace him with Mike Rivera.

If he isn't going to resign, I would still rather trade him for prospects, AND sign a FA to replace him. Aubrey Huff is a FA next year, and Victor Martinez is scheduled to be a FA the following year.

[interestobserver]

I'd sign Fielder if possible, but they'd be crazy to give him more than five years because after 30 he's going to be too fat to move.

[Invader3K]

I'd sign Fielder if possible, but they'd be crazy to give him more than five years because after 30 he's going to be too fat to move.

 

Not if he stays in shape like he is this season.

[southpaw121505]

I'm starting to think we need to make signing Prince a priority, and not just give him some token offer then trade him. Everyone knew he had power, that's not going anywhere, but his approach at the plate for a guy with that power is really impressive and he's still just 25. I think we're watching a top 5 overall hitter in the making. If he continues to improve I could see it being Pujols, then Prince, then everyone else. He's that good to me.

[paul253]

If we lose him, even if its not for 2 years, we create an enormous hole in the lineup. Looking at the minors, we don't have a player in the entire system the can replace. Probably the guy with the best chance in my opinion, Mat Gamel, has never even played first base. We have the pieces in the minors (Escobar, Green, Cain, Salome, Lucroy, Gillespie, Lawrie, Irabarren, Heether, Gindl) to replace our more expensive positional players like Hall, Kendall, Weeks, Hart and Hardy. We can afford to sign a Fielder without leaving every other position with a scrub. I agree with southpaw, don't make him just a token "see I told you we'd make him an offer" offer. Go out and get it done. We can afford to lose Hardy and Hart. We can't afford to lose Fielder.

[RyDogg66]

Im starting to come to the idea that we keep him for the next two years and trade Hart and Hardy for pitching and replace them with Gamel and Escobar.

[Hate those Rodents]

Exactly Rydogg. Melvin waiting on coming to terms with this or be unwilling to stopgap there at those positions is imho what is making our pitching staff that would be average if everyone was pitching their best, look so under-playoff caliber this season. Those two should have been traded for pitching while they had decent/good value.

[TooLiveBrew]

Fortunately for the Brewers scouting departments don't evaluate players like fans do. I'd have to guess that both Hardy & Hart still have good value... heck, Hart's even been displaying why lately.

[paulmolitor4]

Fortunately for the Brewers scouting departments don't evaluate players like fans do. I'd have to guess that both Hardy & Hart still have good value... heck, Hart's even been displaying why lately.

Unfortunately, other teams don't value Hardy as much as some Brewers fans do, otherwise we might have been able to trade him already. I'm really enjoying this huge second half that Hardy is having. Hardy will not be a good hitter again until he figures out he needs to make adjustments just like opposing pitchers have done with him. I just fast-forward his AB's on my DVR. It's far too painful to watch.

[fondybrewfan]

There is no way in heck I would ever think of trading Fielder but the return from a trade would be just ridiculously huge. There is a point to be made that the return for Fielder after this year would be much higher than after next year due to his pending free agency after 2011.

 

I mean the Brewers could and would demand probably 3 of an organizations top 10 prospects and probably another 2 from their 10-20 group.

 

It would be impossible to immediately replace Fielder but in the long run it is probably in the Brewers best interest to get as much talent as possible for 2012, 2013, and beyond.

 

Of course I still am hoping for a miracle contract where we get Fielder for another 4 years or so

[southpaw121505]

I don't know, I guess if theres no chance we keep him, were out of it at the deadline and/or the offer is tremendous, I don't deal Prince until dealine 2011. This offseason the return would have to be tremendous. Not just good prospects, I'd need one or two blue chippers and I don't know what team would both have the ammo to entice me and be in the position to need one bat to put them over the top.

[TooLiveBrew]

Fortunately for the Brewers scouting departments don't evaluate players like fans do. I'd have to guess that both Hardy & Hart still have good value... heck, Hart's even been displaying why lately.

Unfortunately, other teams don't value Hardy as much as some Brewers fans do, otherwise we might have been able to trade him already. I'm really enjoying this huge second half that Hardy is having. Hardy will not be a good hitter again until he figures out he needs to make adjustments just like opposing pitchers have done with him. I just fast-forward his AB's on my DVR. It's far too painful to watch.

I can assure you that scouting departments aren't scared off in the slightest by Hardy's 2009. As Ennder pointed out in another thread, his BABIP is low enough that if you 'normalize' it, you see a line that very much looks like a Hardy line (something like .280/.330/.4XX/.750-.800).

 

Would other teams look to use Hardy's rough 2009 as leverage? You bet, but it just wouldn't affect things the way some around here are claiming.

[Hate those Rodents]

Again, I'd like an example of what Hardy's worth now then. What team is looking forward to giving him 8+ million a year while watching his offensive show this season and complete lack of speed? Or is that team just wanting him for the bat he's showing this year and thus would certainly show next year before letting him go?

 

It's not that the guy is horrible, but we have a cheaper alternative that is becoming harder and harder for the JJ supporters to say is inferior at the plate sitting in AAA with a .300 average, potential gold glove, bevy of speed, and very limited money coming his way any time soon.

[TooLiveBrew]

Let's just keep this in the escobar/gamel thread. It's not like you haven't read what I've posted there http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif