You have to give to get (Fielder to ? this offseason)

[jjfanec]

I have always been in the trade Prince for pitching some time a year before he is a FA camp, but right now I think I may have changed my mind. I would at least keep him until his final season and see if we are in contention that year. Right now we just do not have the hitters to surround Braun with in order to trade Prince. When we had LaPorta waiting in the minors then I thought there was a chance he could be the guy but now, I just do not see us having enough impact bats.

[TheCrew07]

jjfanec wrote:

When we had LaPorta waiting in the minors then I thought there was a chance he could be the guy but now, I just do not see us having enough impact bats.

Matt Gamel is waving at you from the end of the bench.

[jjfanec]

jjfanec wrote:

When we had LaPorta waiting in the minors then I thought there was a chance he could be the guy but now, I just do not see us having enough impact bats.

Matt Gamel is waving at you from the end of the bench.

I should have mentioned Gamel, and I do view him as a really good hitter but I feel like what we are seeing with the Brewers right now is two great hitters are not enough with Braun and Fielder so I just dont see Braun and Gamel being enough.

Our other top position player prospects either do not seem to be impact bats - Escobar or are a ways away - Lawrie. Guys like Green, Lucroy, Salome, Gindl, Cain could all be nice players as well but with Hart showing his major flaws, Hardy more than likely gone, and Cameron gone by then the team will need bats so it will be hard to trade Prince. I did forget about Weeks who was that 3rd bat before he went down this year.

I would actually like to trade him to get a young pitcher who may not be a stud but projects as a 2 or 3 and a 1B prospect.

[paul253]

I think Salome will be a huge addition to the lineup when hes up. After a terrible start in Nashville, hes all the way up to like .280. Kendall has been great defensively the past w seasons, but the catching spot has been a black hole in the lineup. If Salome can hit .290 with 15-20 home runs, that'll improve the offense dramatically. If Gamel does what we all think he can we'll also get rid of the black hole we've had at third base the past few seasons. I think even if we lose Fielder, we'll have a more balanced lineup, especially if you can get some guys to hit for average. We just don't have enough spots for everyone. Next season we have Gamel, McGeHee, Hardy, Escobar and Weeks for three positions, plus maybe even Heether and Counsell. And you cant just throw Irabarren back in Nashville, he deserves a shot too. It'll definitely be an interesting off season.

[BrewPackBuck]

I think Salome will be a huge addition to the lineup when hes up. After a terrible start in Nashville, hes all the way up to like .280. Kendall has been great defensively the past w seasons, but the catching spot has been a black hole in the lineup. If Salome can hit .290 with 15-20 home runs, that'll improve the offense dramatically. If Gamel does what we all think he can we'll also get rid of the black hole we've had at third base the past few seasons. I think even if we lose Fielder, we'll have a more balanced lineup, especially if you can get some guys to hit for average. We just don't have enough spots for everyone. Next season we have Gamel, McGeHee, Hardy, Escobar and Weeks for three positions, plus maybe even Heether and Counsell. And you cant just throw Irabarren back in Nashville, he deserves a shot too. It'll definitely be an interesting off season.

 

I agree with this. Yes we may lose Prince's but we will gain a better lineup with the prospects coming up. Also I hope Heether replaces Counsell and Irabarren replaces Cat. and see if those guys can thrive as bench players.

[nate82]

I expect one of Kendall or Cameron to be back next year and I'm going to go with Cameron coming back for next year if the price is right. Counsell may or may not retire and he wouldn't be bad utility player even at his age I expect him to be back also next year depending on the price though. 2011 is the year of the next wave of prospects IMHO. With Lucroy, Green, Cain, and Braddock. I am probably missing some others like Schafer, Periard, and Rogers. 2011 maybe to early to be looking at Lawrie in the bigs but he should be knocking very loudly at AAA or AA in 2011. I could see Lawrie skipping AAA and going straight to the big league club not every player has to make a stop at every level of the minor league circuit.

 

2011 roster will probably look something like this:

OF: Cain, Braun, Schafer, Heether, and Gillespie

IF: Fielder, Weeks, Escobar, Gamel, and McGehee

C: Salome and Lucroy

SP: Gallardo, Parra, Braddock, Bush, Arnett/Perriard/Butler/Rogers

RP: Villanueva, McClung, DiFelice, Stetter, Rogers and ????

 

The hardest part is filling out the bullpen. I believe the Brewers are going to hold onto Prince untill he is a free agent and then see where things go from there. Melvin would trade Prince but I don't think the right package will come along for Melvin to make that trade. Maybe it does but I would expect Melvin would be looking at a return the Rangers got for Teixeira or the one the Marlins got for Cabrera. The next wave of prospects in 2011 will have some good pitching in it. There are some players who could be real stars or real duds. I like Schafer and Cain a lot I believe they both could play CF (defensively right now more so Cain than Schafer though if Cain wasn't hurt) right now. What is surprising to see is that in the next 2-4 years we will see some good to great pitching prospects coming through the system. Braddock could be a September call up for the bullpen but that is a very long shot of happening though. Even in 2011 the rotation could be even better with Periard, Butler, and Arnett. Suppan's contract has a buyout of $2M in 2011 so I'm guessing the Brewers will do that. In 2012 you could have another wave of pitching prospects with Scarpetta and Odorizzi all these players and I haven't even said Jeffress who could also be in the bigs by 2011 or 2012 depending on if he cleans up his act in the minors.

 

There are quality bats and pitchers in the minors for the Brewers they may not be Brauns, Fielders, or Gallardos but some of them have major league All Star talent. I say keep Prince untill he becomes a free agent unless a can't miss trade comes otherwise I would just keep Fielder and build with Braun, Fielder, and Gallardo. You have to see how far those three can take you. I would rather be the Twins than the Marlins btw when trading talent or not trading it.

[sheetskout]

I have always been in the trade Prince for pitching some time a year before he is a FA camp, but right now I think I may have changed my mind. I would at least keep him until his final season and see if we are in contention that year. Right now we just do not have the hitters to surround Braun with in order to trade Prince. When we had LaPorta waiting in the minors then I thought there was a chance he could be the guy but now, I just do not see us having enough impact bats.

Also agreed time and time again. No reason to deal him now less the opportunity to get a Madison Bumgarner-type comes up (which it won't). You deal him at the last possible moment and make sure that you get more than compensation picks for a talent of his type.

 

I am going to miss a couple, but the only minor leaguers that would make me think of dealing him away now would be Bumgarner, Tillman, Stanton, or Heyward but I would have to really, really think about it. Prince hasn't shown any signs of a decline in his trade value and plays a position with the lowest risk of injury on the field.

[Kelbysdaddy]

i think if boston were to come in and offer clay, lars, and bowden doug melvin would be crazy to not give up prince. maybe even throw in hardy and boston add someone like josh reddick. it fills alot of needs in for both teams. brewers get the pitching they DESPERATELY need, a first base replacement for a bunch of years (teixeria like- great bat even better with the glove) and not to mention freeing up short for escobar. and boston gets a crazy good infield of prince pedroia hardy and youkillis. i am a huge fan of prince but i dont think there is a chance of him staying in milwaukee after his contract anyway. the brewers might take a hit for a season or so but i think it might work out really good in the long run. and as far as trading him to texas, we really dont need any catching prospects.

[igor67]

I think everyone has the general sense of it. The Brewers right now have a few premium players and Fielder is one of them. They are the guys that you hold onto and generally pay the big bucks to. The strength of the farm system is a lot of guys who you can fill in cheaply around your premium guys, or who you can deal for mid-priced veterans to do the same thing in the short term. If you hold Fielder having locked in Braun you can keep a healthy string of competitive baseball going as long as you avoid getting locked into long term contracts for a number of underperformers, and you cycle in prospects a few here and there. If a Gamel or Lawrie really develops into that next set of elite player you can keep the run going, if not you still are looking at a 5-6 year run of relevance. If you dealt Prince you'd need someone back who is an equal level difference maker or Gamel has to turn into a consistent .900+ OPS guy to really have a good shot at staying afloat.

[TCSM]

Nate, do you really foresee all of those prospects panning out and being able to start? I for one would love to think and believe that, but unfortunately that's never the case.

 

I'm almost certain that lineup will be mixed up due to a FA or a trade in 09-10.

[southpaw121505]

Unfortunately for the Brewers, I don't really see the Sox being too interested in Fielder.

Give me a break, Fielder would be the best hitter on that team. Bay and Youkilis are the only guys in his OPS stratosphere and he's 5 years younger than both of them. His defense doesn't matter because he can DH, why would Bay DH when he's still adequate in the OF, why reduce his value? If DM ever made Fielder available I'd bet you my house Theo would be interested.

[nate82]

Nate, do you really foresee all of those prospects panning out and being able to start? I for one would love to think and believe that, but unfortunately that's never the case.

 

I'm almost certain that lineup will be mixed up due to a FA or a trade in 09-10.

Only place I see a FA in the 11 roster would be in the bullpen and maybe a starter. With all of those players I don't see them being anything worse than everyday starters. There are some All Star quality players in there. That is also not taking into account Green will be in AAA or traded for another piece. The Brewers have a lot of pieces coming up in the minor league system that can be traded for more definite pieces. This is also not taking into account Lawrie, Scarpetta, and Ordorizzi. Two of those three should be something special. Lawrie will probably be up in 11 if Weeks is traded or if Weeks is not able to stay healthy which is very possible.

 

The Brewers are set up much like the Twins were and are. I like that and I believe the Brewers can keep on making runs at the playoffs every year depending on where the talent is. The only concern for the Brewers is replacing Fielder.

[Raw Biz]

nate82 wrote:

 

2011 roster will probably look something like this:

OF: Cain, Braun, Schafer, Heether, and Gillespie

IF: Fielder, Weeks, Escobar, Gamel, and McGehee

C: Salome and Lucroy

SP: Gallardo, Parra, Braddock, Bush, Arnett/Perriard/Butler/Rogers

RP: Villanueva, McClung, DiFelice, Stetter, Rogers and ????

So basically our entire roster with the exception of about 4 guys are going to be homegrown? I don't think there's many teams that have rosters like that. Two years away is simply too far to determine because so much can happen. Plus, even if guys seem like they will be everyday players right now, injuries, trades, and other unforeseen things occur. Without adding a player or two to that roster via trade or free agency, it probably isn't enough to contend anyway (at least pitching-wise).

[nate82]

So basically our entire roster with the exception of about 4 guys are going to be homegrown? I don't think there's many teams that have rosters like that. Two years away is simply too far to determine because so much can happen. Plus, even if guys seem like they will be everyday players right now, injuries, trades, and other unforeseen things occur. Without adding a player or two to that roster via trade or free agency, it probably isn't enough to contend anyway (at least pitching-wise).

You would have to either bank on the younger players playing above their heads or doing what the Phillies are doing this year slugging teams to death. This would probably be a rebuilding year if it doesn't work out but the Brewers would be set up for the next 4 or 5 years after that. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that at least 6 of the players in the roster will be in the starting lineup on opening day in 2011. I am hoping Melvin doesn't sign a veteran starter and put him in the rotation. Bush will probably be gone in 2011 though. Without knowing what other teams will look like in 2011 you really can't say how they would do.

 

I believe the Cubs will be on a down swing especially if they are relying on Soriano, Fukudome, Ramirez, and Lee then. Not to mention their starting rotation will be taking hits as they age. I believe the Cubs have one more season before they have to implode the team they have and start over. The Cardinals will be competitive as long as Pujols is healthy and on the team it is just finding players to hit behind and infront of him. I believe the Brewers and Reds will be top dogs in 2010 in the NL central. Everyone else in the NL Central are getting older or don't have the talent to compete yet.

 

Thats all I'm going to post on this but I just don't see Melvin trading Fielder unless he gets a can't miss package for Fielder.

[TooLiveBrew]

I believe the Cubs will be on a down swing especially if they are relying on Soriano, Fukudome, Ramirez, and Lee then. Not to mention their starting rotation will be taking hits as they age. I believe the Cubs have one more season before they have to implode the team they have and start over.

 

Not to mention that their farm system ain't too dandy. I don't even know if the Cubs will be able to implode that team -- not sure they're going to find a ton of buyers (at least, not at good returns) for guys 34-ish or older.

[prophet]

i noticed too, that jeffress isn't on that roster. are we assuming he'll have a lifetime suspension by then? he's got a couple years to work towards that lofty goal.

[Kricket755]

For some sort of reference for a Prince trade, I think the Teixeira trade to Atlanta is a good starting point. Teixeira had a year and half before he was eligible for free agency (paid 12.5 mil by Atl in 2008 to avoid arby). The Rangers brought in C Jarrod Saltalamacchia, SS Elvis Andrus, and pitchers Beau Jones, Matt Harrison, and Neftali Feliz. I think Saltalamacchia's stock was starting to slip slightly at that point, but he was not-long-removed from being one of the elite prospects in the game. Andrus was probably at a similar level to Alcides. Feliz had the live arm, but wasn't nearly as highly thought of as he is 2 years later. Beau Jones was also a 1st round pick in 05.

So it looks like for 1 and 1/2 years of Tex (plus his roughly 17 million in salary for that time) and the 2 comp picks that would have received at the end of the 08 season, they recieved 5 potential major leaguers (Jones now a RP a year or 2 away, Harrison a struggling but potentailly serviceable SP w/ poor peripherals, Salty potential above-average hitting catcher, Andrus as a potential stud despite struggles as a 20 yr old, and one of the games elite SP prospects in Feliz.) I would think this trade is a win for the Rangers and will likely remain one of the models for a team selling an elite slugger at the deadline.

Personally, if the Brewers could receive a haul similar to this (maybe replace Andrus with elite level 1b/3b) I wouldnt mind them pulling the trigger, even though it doesnt make much sense at all to be a seller in a division with no great team.

[StearnsFTW]

i think if boston were to come in and offer clay, lars, and bowden doug melvin would be crazy to not give up prince. maybe even throw in hardy and boston add someone like josh reddick. it fills alot of needs in for both teams. brewers get the pitching they DESPERATELY need, a first base replacement for a bunch of years (teixeria like- great bat even better with the glove) and not to mention freeing up short for escobar. and boston gets a crazy good infield of prince pedroia hardy and youkillis. i am a huge fan of prince but i dont think there is a chance of him staying in milwaukee after his contract anyway. the brewers might take a hit for a season or so but i think it might work out really good in the long run. and as far as trading him to texas, we really dont need any catching prospects.

I think Theo would've had to have hit his head. That would be a top, top shelf offer, and yes, Melvin would have to accept before Theo came to his senses. And the Hardy/Reddick part would be just fine with me too. The Brewers would have a chance to have a great pitching staff by 2011 and replace Prince and JJ with Lars and Escobar. That team would be really cheap too and in good shape to extend Yo.

 

Sign me up for that one in a heartbeat, of course Theo's not stupid, unfortunately.

[smetana34]

Fielder wont net as much as Tex did. Tex bats both ways, and plays great defense. And I may be wrong, but I think Tex played 3rd at one point, so he has versatility. Those things make him much more valuable then Prince

[trwi7]

Fielder wont net as much as Tex did. Tex bats both ways, and plays great defense. And I may be wrong, but I think Tex played 3rd at one point, so he has versatility. Those things make him much more valuable then Prince

He played 3rd for 15 games four years before he got traded. That really does nothing to help his value. I would say Prince's value is pretty similar right now compared to what Teixeira's was in 2007. Maybe a little more valuable since if he was traded this offseason, he would have two full years left before free agency compared to Teixeira's 1.5.

[nate82]

Fielder wont net as much as Tex did. Tex bats both ways, and plays great defense. And I may be wrong, but I think Tex played 3rd at one point, so he has versatility. Those things make him much more valuable then Prince

Not really and I don't think Teixeira ever was consider as a viable option at 3B so not really versatile. Switch hitter yes but I don't see the advantage there over just a lefty power hitter. The Teixeira trade really is a good thing to look at what to expect for 2 or more years of Prince. Yes Prince is not that great on defense but if you are an AL team you really don't care about that. Even with an NL team at 1B defense is about the lowest thing on the minds of the teams that they want to see a 1B being good at.

[southpaw121505]

Prince handles lefties just fine so not being a switch hitter doesn't matter one bit.

[804Sox]

Unfortunately for the Brewers, I don't really see the Sox being too interested in Fielder.

Give me a break, Fielder would be the best hitter on that team. Bay and Youkilis are the only guys in his OPS stratosphere and he's 5 years younger than both of them. His defense doesn't matter because he can DH, why would Bay DH when he's still adequate in the OF, why reduce his value? If DM ever made Fielder available I'd bet you my house Theo would be interested.

I think you're right that Fielder would be the best hitter on the team, but with the Texeira deal setting the market in some ways, I don't think the Sox would be interested in Fielder at that price when they have a young 1st-basement of the future almost ready. Also, Fielder probably doesn't have too many years left at 1B (he seems to be a better fielder this year, but I worry about his body in the long term), meaning he'd need to DH, a spot I see occupied by Bay after Ortiz is gone.

[Invader3K]

I agree with those saying the Brewers likely won't get fair value for Prince, because he's just that good. Plus, who steps in and fills the gap for his production then? If the Brewers ever do trade him, they had better get one heck of a hitting prospect in return.

 

I still say I'd rather just see them hold onto him for the next two years, try to re-sign him, and assuming he goes elsewhere, take the draft picks.

[interestobserver]

I would like to trade him to get a young pitcher who may not be a stud but projects as a 2 or 3 and a 1B prospect.

That's why I said Holt from the Mets. They need a first baseman. Holt is a 22 year old who can hit upper 90's and hold his fastball deep into games. He's a top fifty prospect and has been climbing the rankings in AA. If he finishes strong, he'd be a potential ace and his worst outcome would be a live late game reliever. Ike Davis is a first baseman at AA with a great glove and some pop. They wouldn't need him if they had Prince. Parnell is a late game reliever who has broken 100 in a game situation.

 

Tex and Fielder are about equal on value. Tex had the better glove, Fielder is a better hitter. However the Braves way overpaid and that trade is now recognized as a mistake. If you want to gauge Fielder's value, why not look at what Atlanta got back the next year, which is not a heck of a lot. Also, as bad a trade as it was for Atlanta at the time, those prospects increasing in value made the return seem higher for Texas in retrospect.

 

Atlanta also thought they may have been able to get Tex at a hometown discount that wasn't available to the Rangers, but Boras doesn't do that. Plus their gm was retiring and wanted to go out with a bang.