Alex Rios- Now definitely in play

[UWRyan428]

Hardy SS

Mench LF

 

for

 

Rios CF

McGowan RP-his numbers were stellar two seasons ago and you know Gord Ash and Doug Melvin are interested after last offseason....

[Never Outhustled]

I like that offer UWRyan, Gord Ash drafted both of those Toronto players. I think we'd have to offer more value, but I'm certainly willing to do that. The increase in team OPS we'd get from the difference of Hardy to Rios would be dramatic.

[trwi7]

I thought Toronto was looking for pitching when trading Rios. I like that offer too but we need to send a pitcher their way.

[JohnBriggs12]

You are correct trwi7, Toronto wants pitching in return.

 

Not only do they want pitching, they want a starter who has virtually the same service time as Rios. So Villanueva isn't going to do it either. They'd be interested only if offered a guy like Capuano.

 

That's why I don't see it happening unless Melvin got Suppan and another pitcher somewhere. Even then, I don't think the cautious Melvin would do it.

 

It would be a bold and controversial move and Melvin is a lot of things but he's neither bold nor controversial.

[bsglorydays]

I sure don't see Rios as a 900-1000 OPS guy. He could be, of course, but his first half last year looks like the outlier. If he were 22-23, I'd agree, but at 26, I don't.

 

It is impossible for me to look at Rios' season and not come to the conclusion that the staph infection sabotaged what would have been a big, big season for him. He was absolutely on fire in the first half prior to the infection.

 

Rios couldn't walk on his infected leg for a few days. He came back as quickly as he possibly could - probably too quick - and struggled mightily.

 

This is exactly the type of young player that I would take a chance on. At one time, he was Toronto's top prospect and one of the top 10 in all of baseball. He has all of the tools - speed, developing power, hits for avg and OPS, and has a cannon for an arm.

 

Unfortunately, a player of Rios' caliber will easily land Toronto a good starting pitcher if the Jays decide to pull the trigger. SP is not something Milwaukee can afford to part with at this point.

[TooLiveBrew]

Quote:

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I thought Toronto was looking for pitching when trading Rios. I like that offer too but we need to send a pitcher their way.

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Quote:

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You are correct trwi7, Toronto wants pitching in return....Not only do they want pitching, they want a starter who has virtually the same service time as Rios. So Villanueva isn't going to do it either....They'd be interested only if offered a guy like Capuano. That's why I don't see it happening unless Melvin got Suppan and another pitcher somewhere.

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*ahem!*......

 

Quote:

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Lotta talk on the Blue Jays' fan forums about dealing Rios. It's for a SP, almost every time. If Suppan can be signed, it may give the club the flexibility to trade Vargas & Jenkins for Rios

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[UWRyan428]

What about Claudio Vargas if we sign Soup Can? CV the Elder would become somewhat expendable then and it would even out the apparent lack of value in our offer. Honestly, I think many are undervaluing Hardy, as when he has been healthy, he has been very good.

How about an expansion to....

 

Hardy

Mench

CV the Elder

 

for

 

McGowan

Rios

Brandon League (He could become a very dominating reliever...or completely blow up. But it would be a worthwhile flier and he needs a change of venue)

[Oldcity]

UW, I'm can't help but feel you're over-valuing what the Brewers would get for that offer. Hardy-Mench-Vargas might get Rios, but I don't see anyway they would get McGowan and League thrown on top of that.

[UWRyan428]

I think many are overvaluing a good couple months from Rios. He may have been a hot name through the first couple months of the season, but the same could be said about Mench. Their career numbers don't suggest better value, and we are also giving up a shortstop who has produced well at a young age and is still filling out his frame. With some projection, JJ could produce almost the same type of production Rios could conceivably attain, though slightly less power. And I truly believe that the Blue Jays have soured on League, which is why I could see him being jettisoned with Rios. McGowan has always been of interest, since he was initially mentioned in the Overbay discussions. In the end, I am quite happy with our return, but I can't help but want the one that got away.

[UWRyan428]

Who was that catcher much of this board continued to throw out there in proposals? Some power hitting backstop... Joel Hanrahan and Edwin Jackson, anyone? ANYONE?

[UWRyan428]

Guillermo Quiroz. He of the collapsed lung and the teammate of Richie Sexson. As for Rios, is his value truly that high, that it would take Hardy++ to get him??? I find it hard to believe that the Jays wouldn't jump over ANY deal for Hardy to be their starting SS, Glaus at the hot corner, Lyle at 1B and Hill at 2B or whichever prospect du joir is anointed the Jesus Christ of the leaf. That has to appeal to Canadiens fans.

[Never Outhustled]

Toronto seems to really value Mcgowan, and its not that important to me to get him. Can we get Ty Taubenhiem back instead?

[RockCoCougars]

I wouldn't trade Hardy for Rios straight up.

[JohnBriggs12]

If Alex Rios had come through the Brewer system, most of the same people that are dissing him here would consider him untouchable.

 

If he and Mench were on the open market, he'd get 4 times what Mench would. They are just not comparable.

 

The Rios of the first half of 2006: .330/.383/.585 was the Rios that the Jays had been waiting for. He's a true 5 tool talent about to enter his prime. If the Jays are foolish enough to shop him, I'd go for it.

[Never Outhustled]

The Rios of the first half of 2006: .330/.383/.585 was the Rios that the Jays had been waiting for.

 

Thats completely true, but makes him look like he only had a good half season. Rios hit .333/.371/.606 in the final month of the season.

[bsglorydays]

I wouldn't trade Hardy for Rios straight up

 

I would do that deal everyday and twice on Sundays. Of course, you would have to leave Bill Hall at shortstop where he belongs.

 

Problem is, there is no way the Blue Jays would take that offer seriously. They would be sitting around waiting for the rest of the offer to come in from the Brewers, namely which SP would be included.

[dpapo]

Toronto is looking for a no. 3 starting pitcher. They have pitchers on the roster already that can be no. 4 and 5 type pitchers. And pitching is what they are interested in.

[RockCoCougars]

I just don't get the hate towards Hardy on this group. I still think he could be a really good shortstop. Let's give him a another season and see what he can do before we put him out to pasture. If Rios is such a stud, why are the Jays actively looking to move him?

 

Quote:

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The Rios of the first half of 2006: .330/.383/.585

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What about Hardy's second half a couple of years ago?

 

I get the feeling that some of you guys would have traded Yount for Oscar Gamble back in the day.

 

No, I am not comparing Hardy to Yount.

[bsglorydays]

I have nothing against Hardy. I am a Hardy fan. Hopefully he can stay healthy at some point.

 

I'm not knocking Hardy. All I am saying is that if you're offering me Rios for Hardy, you, my friend, have a deal.

 

I'll gladly give up a good defensive SS that one day might become an above average hitter for a future star that will one day be a 30/30 player and already can be considered a 5-tool player.

 

At this point, Hardy = Royce Clayton, and that may not be fair to Clayton. Toronto already has Royce Clayton. Now, I'm sure they would rather have Hardy than Clayton. But not at the expense of Rios.

 

Somebody stated it perfectly in an earlier post:

If Rios came up thru the Brewers system, we would probably consider him untouchable. Heck, Corey Hart can't hold a candle to Rios, and some people on here think he is the 2nd coming.

[sbrylski]

If Rios came up thru the Brewers system, we would probably consider him untouchable. Heck, Corey Hart can't hold a candle to Rios, and some people on here think he is the 2nd coming.

 

Disagreed.

 Alexis Rios Age Lvl OPS 21 A+ .752 22 AA .923 23 AAA .665 Corey Hart Age Lvl OPS 21 AA .807 22 AAA .827 23 AAA .913

 

Rios may be slightly more established, but Hart is a year younger and put up better offensive numbers that Rios and was a level higher each year at the same age. Hart also steals more bases. Defensively the edge does go to Rios though.

[bsglorydays]

Thanks for the "stats" comparison. Obviously, you chose only the ever-popular OPS, which is a good stat. It just doesn't always tell the whole story, like any other stat.

 

Rios is finally growing into his body and becoming the player that was projectedt all along. It took him a while to develop his power (he hit only 1 HR his rookie season in 426 ABs). Hart pales in comparison defensively - I don't think there is any debate there.

 

For the record, both players have similar sub-.800 MLB OPS's. Rios is slightly better. (Hart does have fewer ABs) Afterall, major league stats are what really matters at this point. If you look at the full package with an unbiased eye, Rios is clearly superior to Hart IMO. That's not to say Hart won't be a good player - he probably will.

[pogokat]

Quote:

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If you look at the full package with an unbiased eye, Rios is clearly superior to Hart IMO.

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clearly superior? kinda funny that you say clearly when you qualify your statement with "IMO" and "with an unbiased eye"

 

Rios may be better now, but the difference is pretty minimal...BTW, Corey Hart will prove to be an above average defensive player in his career...

 

and he's already with the team...i dont think you should ever trade for a player who might be just a slight bit better than what you've already got...some think the grass is greaner...others, eric young...i say we are pretty good already..

[sbrylski]

It just doesn't always tell the whole story, like any other stat.

 

No, but it tells you what happens at the end.

[Nader Raider Tim]

Well I generally try and look at trade proposals from the other teams perspective and what they would want in return. I do think the Brewers do match up and have "potentially" enough to trade for Rios, IF....

 

Brewers sign Jeff Suppan

 

then

 

Brewers could offer

 

Chris Capuano

 

for

 

Alex Rios

 

or

 

JJ Hardy

Carlos Villenueva

(B prospect 8-15 range)

 

for

 

Alex Rios

[aracko]

I dont see the point in acquiring Rios. Sure he would be a nice bat to add, but we have too many OFs right now to talk seriously about acquiring another one. If Melvin would get rid of Clark and Mench and Jenkins, then maybe...............

 

I dont Envy Mr Yost this season. He has a very hard situation on his hands. Bill Hall is going to be playing every day. Cory Hart needs to play every day. Geoff Jenkins thinks he deserves to play every day. Gabe Gross should be playing every day cause he is too good to be a 4th OF. Brady Clark has played every day in the past and gets paid like an every day player. Gwynn Jr needs to play every day if he is going to fulfil his potential.

 

There is going to be alot of opportunity for Ned to Yost this up.