Roy Halladay

[KCBrewerfan34]

The GM for Toronto needs to make sure he gets maximum value for Halladay but he needs to be careful because if he ends up only getting draft picks for Halladay his tenure is over with. This is a HUGE game of chicken right now, who will blink first. Halladay's value goes down significantly if he's traded in the off-season unless he's willing to re-sign w/ that team and that will definitely narrow the field who can afford his next contract demands.

[endaround]

His value doesn't go down that much. In fact it could go up as teams can more easily add his salary in the offseason than during midseason. Halladay is only available because the Jays could use the salary relief and they have lots of young pitching (which is why Halladay maybe one of the few pitchers the Brewers could get since the Jays don't need to get pitching back unlike say the DBacks and Haren) that they would like to start breaking in.

[pretendastronaut]

Anyone with an Insider account for this?

 

TRADES: Brewers no match for Halladay

[endaround]

I don't have insider but I bet its just a link to Haudricort's note about the Brewers not being able to get Halladay without giving up Gamel and Escobar

[dadofandrew]

TOR told LA that a deal had to include Kershaw or Billingsley. The idea that the Crew can throw the Jays some A ballers not in their top 10 is ludicrous.

[lcbj68c]

The idea that the Crew can throw the Jays some A ballers not in their top 10 is ludicrous.

Who had that idea? I don't think anybody here said that. I don't think anybody in the media proposed that? Where is this coming from?

[TheCrew07]

The idea that the Crew can throw the Jays some A ballers not in their top 10 is ludicrous.

Who had that idea? I don't think anybody here said that. I don't think anybody in the media proposed that? Where is this coming from?

Us casuals, the little people that don't understand baseball...

 

Actually Nate did propose a trade of that nature, but out of literally dozens of ideas offered up, that's the one that Al chooses to zero in on.

[dadofandrew]

Pretyy much any trade that does not involve some combo of Escobar, Gamel, Lawrie, Hardy, or Hart fit the bill. Since all the discussion thus far has been prospects, those of us who have floated JJ and Corey as possible chips are likely equally incorrect.

 

The Roto piece suggested the Crew would offer up all but the top 3, but that is even too little, it would appear.

[lcbj68c]

Oh, so not literally entirely all "A" ballers. Nevermind me...carry on with the overgeneralizations that come with arguing on the internet. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[nate82]

Actually Nate did propose a trade of that nature, but out of literally dozens of ideas offered up, that's the one that Al chooses to zero in on.

Yes and I have also proposed other trades in this thread that were even more off the wall. Like trading Suppan + prospects for Halladay and Wells. Or having all those A ballers for Swisher and Halladay and Wells going to the Yankees though I believe the Yankees would probably want Rios more than Wells. These are just ideas and I feel they could be a possibility however low the possibility of it actually happening. I don't see Lawrie or Escobar being traded nor Gamel either so there really isn't much to talk about in a trade unless you bring in the other A ballers into the discussion.

[shelmark]

The fact of the matter is JP said he would listen to offers. He did not say he was going to trade him. Why not ask a king's ransom, and if you get it fine, otherwise you simply keep one of the best pitchers as you have little pressure to move him. Maybe he is just gauging the value and wasn't even serious about dealing him.

[jackalope02ca]

I think Halladay will be moved. JP loses his job this winter if he doesn't so he'll move him. He might lose it anyways. How he's kept his job this long with all the bad contracts he's given out is beyond most of us that live in Canada. While I'm not making fun of or putting down any of the offers suggested on this site or elsewhere I'm not sure why the Jays would want Hart, Suppan or even Hardy. What they need budget wise is cheap young guys like Gamel, Escobar and Salome who are basically ready for the show. Throw in a Brewer Canadian prospect and you would likely have a deal. And honestly I'm not sure there is a better pitcher in baseball than Roy. He'd likely be worth it even at the price of 2 of our top 3 prospects and some others.

 

The Linebrink trade was ridiculed on this site immediately after it was made because whe had given up away too much for a middle releiver. At this point in time it looks pretty good from the Brewers side of things. What we would be giving up isn't proven yet and there is a possibility that one of our can't miss prospects does just that.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Alot of guys on this site don't ever want to give up prospects, unless you're developing your own (which we're not), or paying big FA bucks (which we most likely won't anymore) you need to trade for pitching.

 

I'll put this trade out there.

 

Parra

Hardy

Lawrie

Low level guy

 

 

if Tor would pass on that then they probably aren't interested in dealing.

[crewcrazy]

Keith Law with an interesting update on his Twitter, reporting from St. Louis:

 

keithlaw: Didn't think a Halladay trade was that likely 48 hours ago, but after some conversations the last two days, it seems even less likely.

 

That would seem to confirm reports that the Jays have been asking for the likes of Kershaw, Billingsley, Chamberlain, Buchholz, etc. in any deal in addition to a group of really good prospects.

[TheCrew07]

The Linebrink trade was ridiculed on this site immediately after it was made because whe had given up away too much for a middle releiver. At this point in time it looks pretty good from the Brewers side of things.

How so? We didn't make the playoffs, still don't have any high ceiling pitching in AAA, the 2 draft picks are Dykstra who his father aside is having a horrible season and Frederickson whom I really like but has been up and down all season. I don't see how the team has come out ahead in that deal at all, maybe they broke even.

[jackalope02ca]

How so? We didn't make the playoffs, still don't have any high ceiling pitching in AAA, the 2 draft picks are Dykstra who his father aside is having a horrible season and Frederickson whom I really like but has been up and down all season. I don't see how the team has come out ahead in that deal at all, maybe they broke even.

 

You missed the whole point. This was one of the turning points for this organization along with signing Suppan which showed the Brewers weren't just another small market team willing to fade into oblivion like we also have for the past 20 or so years. We showed we were a team willing to go for it. Without the Suppan signing and this deal I doubt Hoffman would have signed here. I also doubt Braun signs the deal he did.

[nate82]

I think Halladay will be moved. JP loses his job this winter if he doesn't so he'll move him. He might lose it anyways. How he's kept his job this long with all the bad contracts he's given out is beyond most of us that live in Canada. While I'm not making fun of or putting down any of the offers suggested on this site or elsewhere I'm not sure why the Jays would want Hart, Suppan or even Hardy. What they need budget wise is cheap young guys like Gamel, Escobar and Salome who are basically ready for the show. Throw in a Brewer Canadian prospect and you would likely have a deal. And honestly I'm not sure there is a better pitcher in baseball than Roy. He'd likely be worth it even at the price of 2 of our top 3 prospects and some others.

JP won't lose his job this winter if he doesn't trade Halladay. The owner wants Halladay back and has said he would like to have Halladay extended if at all possible. All indications look as though Halladay will stay and probably wants to stay in Toronto. JP is just doing his job and looking to see if he can better the team in the long run. This isn't a salary dump at all. This is looking for someone foolish enough to give up their whole system for Halladay. If JP doesn't find that deal he doesn't have to make one. JP's job is not on the line if he can not trade Halladay.

[twobrewers]

This isn't a salary dump at all.

From Saturday's Toronto Sun...

 

"The Jays are a financial mess," said one scout whose club has been involved in trade talks with Toronto. "They could say: 'If you want Roy Halladay ... you can take an outfielder, too. I know the Jays have both Vernon Wells and Alex Rios out there (in trade talks)."

[nate82]

This isn't a salary dump at all.

From Saturday's Toronto Sun...

 

"The Jays are a financial mess," said one scout whose club has been involved in trade talks with Toronto. "They could say: 'If you want Roy Halladay ... you can take an outfielder, too. I know the Jays have both Vernon Wells and Alex Rios out there (in trade talks)."

I agree Rios or Wells would be a salary dump but not Halladay alone. Halladay's contract compared to those two is not that much and it only for another year so that salary is not that much when considering Halladay's value in a trade is probably not going to drop all that much between now and next years trade deadline other than a major injury happening.

[TheCrew07]

How so? We didn't make the playoffs, still don't have any high ceiling pitching in AAA, the 2 draft picks are Dykstra who his father aside is having a horrible season and Frederickson whom I really like but has been up and down all season. I don't see how the team has come out ahead in that deal at all, maybe they broke even.

 

You missed the whole point. This was one of the turning points for this organization along with signing Suppan which showed the Brewers weren't just another small market team willing to fade into oblivion like we also have for the past 20 or so years. We showed we were a team willing to go for it. Without the Suppan signing and this deal I doubt Hoffman would have signed here. I also doubt Braun signs the deal he did.

 

They replayed almost the entire 2008 futures game during the rain delay, and I caught Melvin's comments again and caught something I had missed last season, as I was more tuned in to what he had to say about the prospects at any rate. At any rate, he said (and I'm paraphrasing) that it was of the upmost importance to end the long playoff draught, and that's why they went after Sabathia... applying that same logic to the previous season, that's what Linebrink was about. It didn't signal anything to anyone, maybe it meant something to you, the same way making the playoffs validated some people's fandom, but in hindsight it's pretty clear Mark and Doug were pushing hard to get the franchise into the post season, whatever the cost.

 

Suppan is not and was not Reggie White, that acquisition didn't signal anything either... I get why people continue to make that comparison, but the 2 situations are completely dissimilar. Suppan isn't carrying the Crew to the promised land, he's not a team leader, and he's not an elite talent. He's average player who cashed in on his career years... that's it. Milwaukee still isn't an attractive destination for FAs because they'll chase the money, almost without exception. We'll get mid tier players, like we have since Suppan, but nothing more in FA, we just don't have the resources to win a bidding war against the big boys. The team arrived because they drafted very well and graduated an entire crop of effective position players to MLB (minus CF and C), not because Melvin traded for Linebrink or signed Suppan.

[logan82]

Suppan is not and was not Reggie White, that acquisition didn't signal anything either

 

Milwaukee still isn't an attractive destination for FAs because they'll chase the money, almost without exception. We'll get mid tier players, like we have since Suppan, but nothing more in FA, we just don't have the resources to win a bidding war against the big boys.

 

Both signings showed a change in attitude and direction of the franchise. Obviously one player was an elite talent in the league and the other was an average at best player. We are now considered a good place to play by free agents when all other things are equal. That wouldn't be the case previous to the Suppan signing. I know you will probably argue that building a good team from within made this a good free agent destination and I will agree that is part of it, but if we didn't sign Suppan or some other free agent we would be Minnesota. How often do they come up as players in the FA market? Obviously we can't compete with the big boys, but few can and that isn't going to change any time soon.

[jackalope02ca]

Unless Halladay is just blowing smoke he wants out. There have been lots of rumours around. He wants to win and realizes he's in his prime years. I seriously doubt an extension is signed. JP is on his last bit of leash as well. The Jays have had financial issues for years and this is no secret. I think this team will be blown up and they will start from scratch. It will start in the next couple of weeks and continue through the winter. JP"s only chance to save his job is to find someone to take on a lot of the bad contracts and bring in some exciting youth.

[igor67]

I see Suppan as perfectly consistent with the old way of doing things. We'll sign a guy whose name recognition is bigger than his impact. I've been mildly surprised because he's managing to hold onto some value and has yet to decline that last step from 4th starter to emergency 6th starter.

[steve267268]

Our team is flawed, let's not try to patch that with a pitcher who we'll have for less than 2 years.

[endaround]

All teams are flawed, your argument doesn't hold water.