Roy Halladay

[804Sox]

Even if Snider rebounds, there is the other corner OF Toronto has... whose OPS is a whopping .734. I mean, does Alexis Rios set anyone on fire?

 

But as I said, the centerpiece is Salome. Filling the Blue Jays' hole at catcher (Salome is still one of the top prospects for the Brewers) would go a long way. I'm sure Salome would easily top the .720 OPS that Barajas is putting up - and Raul Chavez is even WORSE (.663).

 

Salome fills the LaPorta role in the deal. Dillard fills the "Zach Jack" hole - and he's racked up better major-league numbers than Jackson.

 

The top of the Brewers' deal is not exactly Matt LaPorta, but two others in the deal (Katin, Dillard) are probably better than their counterparts in the Sabathia trade, and Lee Haydel is a bit like Michael Brantley.

 

Slightly better package - particularly since the Brewers may have to buy out Halladay's no-trade clause.

I don't know where to begin. The other 3 posters disagreeing with you and that fact that no one has come to your defense should have given you and idea how misguided this proposal is.

 

Katin - a 26yro COF putting up an .870 OPS in AAA is nothing. Every team has players like this, and as such his trade value is essentially zero. His K/BB rate over the past 2 years is 26/207. There's a reason he's still in AAA. He's got nice pop but would be completely exposed.

 

Dillard - same thing. Will turn 26 soon, has average rate stats as a starter, but horrible peripherals. just over 3 K/9 and under 1 K/BB this season. He was better as a reliever last year, but once again is a player that every organization has and has little trade value.

 

Haydel - To early to cast judgement on his career, but if he's the second best player in your package you're not gonna land Halladay

 

Salome - nice catcher, but not the type of player who's the centerpiece of a trade for the best pitcher in Baseball.

 

The key element to trades is that both sides have to agree. As such, you have to give something up to get it in return.

[shelmark]

My goodness Clancy if Melvin offered that to Toronto he would be a laughed at. It doesn't make you look very good either.

[tigerbrew]

I'm disappointed that DM did not call Ricciardi about Halladay yet, what on earth is he waiting for? For a guy who claims to work from 9am to midnight everyday to improve this team, he sure is taking a long time to act upon it.

[kramnoj]

It could just be gamesmanship by Melvin. He doesn't want to seem too eager by calling right away. It might make him seem desperate and imply that he is willing to give up more than he intends to. It's not like Halladay is going to be traded tomorrow. Toronto will wait to see what every team that is interested will offer before making a deal, there's weeks to make this trade happen, and it doesn't have to happen at all right now, it can wait until the offseason.

[Never Outhustled]

But as I said, the centerpiece is Salome. Filling the Blue Jays' hole at catcher (Salome is still one of the top prospects for the Brewers) would go a long way.

If you read through the rest of this thread you'd know the Jays have a higher rated catching prospect in JP Arencibia, and he's closer to being MLB ready than Salome.

[Invader3K]

Realistically any trade proposal with Toronto will probably have to start with Escobar, it would seem like. They'll need a shortstop soon, and will want a player they can control for a number of years. Edit: Also, apparently the Cardinals have "real interest" in Halladay, according to MLB Trade Rumors. That may mean nothing, but I would hate to see them get him in a trade. We would probably have to kiss our chances of winning the division goodbye, realistically.

[igor67]

Here's a fairly different idea inspired by Joe Sheehan. Build a package less about the prospects and more around taking Alex Rios. Rios is a superior defensive RF to Hart based on a a few years of UZR data. Their bats are producing similarly this year. And Rios has played a fair bit of at least competent CF, which has value in the post Mike Cameron era. If that let's you deal say Hall and Hart + a few non- Escobar/Gamel prospects for Halladay I think it's a reasonable trade-off. It lets you maximize your next two seasons by clumping 4 real difference makers (Gallardo, Halladay, Braun, and Prince) on the field in their primes with a solid group around them. And you don't have to give up too much minor league talent that you are ensured a sharp drop off either.

[Invader3K]

I like it...Rios has a lengthy contract, but his annual salary tops out around $14 million or so, which isn't any worse than what Suppan is making now.

[trwi7]

If that let's you deal say Hall and Hart + a few non- Escobar/Gamel prospects for Halladay I think it's a reasonable trade-off.

 

It's an awful trade-off for Toronto. Even if they add Rios, they're still going to get at least one top notch prospect and they won't be taking Hall.

 

It would have to be something like.

 

Halladay and Rios for Hart, Escobar, Green, Anundsen and Periard or something along those lines.

 

That might not even be enough. Halladay is that good.

[Invader3K]

igor67 wrote:

It would have to be something like.

 

Halladay and Rios for Hart, Escobar, Green, Anundsen and Periard or something along those lines.

 

That might not even be enough. Halladay is that good.

 

I think that would be worth exploring. We would get Halladay and a serviceable replacement for Cameron after next year. We'd give up Escobar, but I think all the other guys we'd lose would be acceptable lossses.

[lcbj68c]

Wouldnt that put the Brewers payroll over 100M next season? Very unlikely, IMO

[Invader3K]

Well, Cameron, Kendall, and Hoffman are all likely gone after this season, so that frees up over $20 million right there. Hart would be gone so you don't have to worry about his arbitration raise. Would still have to increase payroll a bit, but I don't think it would be crippling.

[dadofandrew]

3-5 very good prospects is what's being rumored. You might be able to get TOR to take Hardy or Hart instead, but no offer I've seen on here seems even close.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

3-5 very good prospects is what's being rumored. You might be able to get TOR to take Hardy or Hart instead, but no offer I've seen on here seems even close.

 

Exactly. MlbTradeRumors.com cited this tweet from the Cardinals beat guy today:

Here's what Strauss tweeted just a moment ago: Asked about the price tag for Halladay, a club source said: "Give Ricciardi all our minor-league rosters and let him circle any 5 names."

 

If that is truly the case, which it probably is, the Brewers would need to offer at least Escobar and Lawrie plus 3 other decent prospects.

[Pudster13]

I think the Brewers would need to add Brett Lawrie to the package I started this thread with to get Halladay.

 

 

2B Brett Lawrie

SS Alcides Escobar

3B Taylor Green

SP Evan Fredrickson

RP Rob Wooten

 

With that being said, I would conclude that the Brewers would be better off if they did NOT acquire Halladay. One and a half years of a fairly expensive Halladay, will not be worth giving what we would have to give up.

[sargennm]

Here's what Strauss tweeted just a moment ago: Asked about the price tag for Halladay, a club source said: "Give Ricciardi all our minor-league rosters and let him circle any 5 names."

 

Just to be clear, that was quickly refuted by Bernie Miklasz who also covers the Cards and is a columnist for the Post-Dispatch:

 

no. The person who told @JoeStrauss that has no authority to make or influence such a deal.

[davego]

Boy...if that is true (3-5 prospects) sure doesn't seem to be worth it. Maybe if they would take Hall and Dan Gadzuric.

[BrewPackBuck]

Boy...if that is true (3-5 prospects) sure doesn't seem to be worth it. Maybe if they would take Hall and Dan Gadzuric.

 

Haha thats funny I laughed out loud. Im having serious doubts to even doing this deal. We would have to give up Escobar and most likely Lawrie and it just wouldnt be worth it. Also I heard they are looking for pitching back too and well we all know how the Brewers are developing pitching talent. I say we shouldnt do this trade.

[Never Outhustled]

3-5 very good prospects is what's being rumored. You might be able to get TOR to take Hardy or Hart instead, but no offer I've seen on here seems even close.

Maybe try reading a few of them then. Try post #63. I see no reason Toronto would decline that offer based on what they've said publically they're asking for.

 

 

Also, Hart could be had cheaper than Bowden (top 75-level prospect and MLB-ready pitcher) and Navarro (I'm really high on him - see him as a Yunel Escobar-type),

OK 804Sox, you know your team, what would fit better? We know Epstien likes Hart, and has continuously searched for a righty swinging OF. Scaturo is better than Nick Green. If Bowden is too much, who could the Sox part with that Toronto would value? Escobar, Lawrie, Green, Periard is the start of a great offer to Toronto already, Bowden likely isn't even nessecary as the 5th player. Hart and Scaturo for Bard and Navarro? The problem is so many of the Sox prospects are below AA, except for a bunch of quality OFs, and Toronto doesn't need those.

[wibadgers23]

Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun lists the Brewers and Angels as the leaders to acquire Halladay:

 

 

MILWAUKEE BREWERS 5-2

Ex-Jay Dave Bush is injured, lefty Manny Parra took a step back. They added CC Sabathia a year ago and co-GM Ryan Braun would approve. Prospects: Infielders Alcides Escobar and Mat Gamel, catchers Angel Salome and Brett Lawrie.

 

 

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/09/10071966-sun.html

[Roderick]

and co-GM Ryan Braun would approve.

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/09/10071966-sun.html

That is very funny and timely. But I thought it was Deputy GM, Ryan Braun.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Ok what about Escobar, Parra & Lawrie?

[endaround]

Given that neither the Yankees or the Sox (his #3 and #4 favorites) really are that interested in Halladay I'd take his opinions with a large grain of salt.

[SeriesFinale]

I'd be OK with them parting with either Gamel or Escobar as part of a package to get Halladay during this two-year window of opportunity. I'd be devastated to see both go, however.

 

(On another note, reading the comments at MLB Trade Rumors, etc, about this by other fans is always interesting/amusing/infuriating: they want Gamel AND Escobar AND Lawrie AND Salome AND Green AND maybe even Parra or Hart. I can't even imagine.)

[wibadgers23]

Just out of curiosity, if it came down to trading Gamel or Escobar for Halladay, who would you guys rather we keep? For me, I'd rather keep Escobar. Taylor Green and McGehee seem like pretty good options at 3rd base if Gamel were to be traded. If we trade Escobar and Hardy doesn't re-sign, who would take over at short?