Roy Halladay

[nate82]

Im sorry....but how can you with a straight face say that. and i quote " adding Halladay is not going to make this team more of a playoff contender this year or next year"?

 

Adding Halladay would make every single team in the league more of a contender.....

 

I just fail to comprehend this logic. Did adding CC last season not make us more of a contender? Would we not have been a contender this season if we had re-signed him?

 

I mean no offense, but this statement was as illogical as they come.

Because the rotation would still consist of a #6 starter in Burns or McClung. If Parra is gone and Bush can not come back then the Brewers would be in big trouble with Burns or McClung in the rotation and that is why Halladay wouldn't really increase the chances of the Brewers making the playoffs. This isn't a Sabathia deal where we had Sheets in the rotation already and there was only one hole in the rotation. There is one right now and if Parra is in the deal and Bush can't make it back you have two holes you have to fix. You would have a rotation of Halladay, Gallardo, Looper, Suppan, and Bush/McClung/Cody/Dillard. Halladay is not going to increase anything. It will be like putting a band aid on a shotgun wound.

 

If the Royals added Halladay to their team they are no more of a playoff contender than they were before the same can be even said about the Red Sox adding Halladay or the Yankees adding Halladay. If you are a playoff contender before you will be a playoff contender after the trade and if you were not a playoff contender before the trade you are probably more than likely not a playoff contender after the trade.

 

If CC would have resigned with the Brewers I'm not sure if we would be a contender since there would be no Hoffman and probably no Cameron also. So I'm not sure we would be more of a playoff contender with him. You are either a playoff contender or you are not. There is no super playoff contender it is just playoff contender or not you can't go up any higher or lower than that.

[Invader3K]

So, what I'd like to know is, if the Brewers don't add a pitcher like Halladay right now, what would Melvin realistically be able to do to acquire a top end pitcher in the off season?

 

The biggest problem with Gamel and Escobar is that neither of them are a pitcher. *sigh*

[KCBrewerfan34]

This is my argument exactly, this is the time to acquire a frontline starter, whether its now or during the off-season you're not getting a #1 or #2 starter on the cheap, its going to be costly!! Nate and a few others look at our starters, 15th in the league in ERA. Melvin has set this team up for failure and we should be very upset.

 

This ridiculous attitude of everyone of our prospects is a potential stud is just crazy and Melvin will be able to make trades this off-season to help us, what did he do last off-season? Looper and hit he hit on Mcgehee.

 

The window for this current team is now thru 2011. After that Fielder leaves. Until then you can build around Braun Fielder, Gallardo, Escobar and whoever else emerges and thats a pretty good group. Hall, Suppan, Kendall, Looper, Hoffman & Cameron are all of the books between now and after the 2010 season, so there is some salary flexibility.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Not sure if this has been posted.

 

Sources have informed the Philadelphia Inquirer that the Blue Jays want Kyle Drabek, J.A. Happ and Dominic Brown for ace Roy Halladay.

 

 

If the Phillies do this we really never had a shot.

[paulmolitor4]

KCBrewerfan34 wrote:

This ridiculous attitude of everyone of our prospects is a potential stud is just crazy and Melvin will be able to make trades this off-season to help us, what did he do last off-season? Looper and hit he hit on Mcgehee.

This ridiculous attitude of everyone assuming that just because we want Halladay that we can get Halladay is just crazy. First off, Halladay has to want to come here. The Brewers are a .500 team right now. Do you think that intrigues him as much as some other teams? Also Toronto wants young frontline major league ready pitching, which the Brewers are very much lacking in. If the Phillies offer Drabek the Brewers can't compete with that.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Paul,

 

I can't worry if Halladay will block the trade or not but not offering Gamel or Escobar makes me think DM is just doing this for show.I wouldn't be dissappointed if we worked out a trade and Halladay nixed the deal because thats his right, I am dissappointed that we can't get any pitching for this sorry ass rotation (excuse my language).

[paulmolitor4]

Paul,

 

I can't worry if Halladay will block the trade or not but not offering Gamel or Escobar makes me think DM is just doing this for show.I wouldn't be dissappointed if we worked out a trade and Halladay nixed the deal because thats his right, I am dissappointed that we can't get any pitching for this sorry ass rotation (excuse my language).

I think we will get pitching. It just won't be Halladay. The Phillies have more leverage in making a deal with their young pitching.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Who then?

 

We couldn't get Davis, Bedard & Washburn aren't available. What's out there?

[naivin]

I think we will get pitching. It just won't be Halladay. The Phillies have more leverage in making a deal with their young pitching.

Well, then I say why bother? The Phillies are already better than the Brewers at nearly every position. The chances of getting to the playoffs or slim enough behins the Cardinals and Cubs already, then add the prospect of having to get past the Phillies w/Halladay in the playoffs. If a deal can be made with an eye on 2010, that's fine. If its for thos year, it has to be bog to have the necessary impact. Some 3-4 SP, doesn't do much but deplete off season/2010 trade opportunities.

[paulmolitor4]

Who then?

 

We couldn't get Davis, Bedard & Washburn aren't available. What's out there?

I like Peavy, but I think I'm in the minority right now, because he probably won't be able to pitch until sometime later in August. To me, if there was ever a good time to go after him, the time would be now.

 

I think Bedard could be had. Other people are throwing around Bannister or Duchscherer as possibilities. Maybe they are not frontline starters, but they would definitely help.

 

I also like the idea of going after Dye (he's supposedly available now) to improve our offense. Such a move would help counter the Cardinals' Holliday pick-up.

 

I guess I would rather make 2 or 3 moves to solidify the team rather than putting all of our eggs in one basket with Halladay.

[Oldcity]

I agree that at this point, if the Brewers can't get top-flight pitching, they shouldn't really bother adding any pitching at all. Their nosedive has made them a slim playoff contender anyway. A rental at this point should be out of the question.

[dadofandrew]

Drabek, Happ, and Dom Brown sounds like it may be the final deal. Drabek and Happ are two tremendous young pitchers for TOR to control for ages. Halladay will be hard pressed to have a lower ERA than Happ has had, actually.

 

Halladay does make the Phillies the favorite in a 5 or 7 game series though. The playoffs are really where Roy helps a club immensely.

[PeaveyFury]

Just to add my thoughts to the thread, now that the state of the Brewers' team is becoming clearer nearing the deadline:

 

I agree with those that say including Parra in any deal to get a pitcher doesn't make much sense. The whole point of acquiring a guy like Halladay or Lee or whoever is to end the Mike Burns Experience in the rotation, and moving Parra doesn't accomplish that at all. And that's not to say that Manny is 'untouchable' or going to work out his issues for sure or anything, it's just that I don't see how we can conceivably trade away and of our ML-level pitching right now, considering how little of it we have.

 

The Brewers are at a bit of a crossroads here- they're forced to choose between making a splash with a nice pitcher that we control for multiple years and try to make a push with a team that may have too many holes, standing pat or even selling and potentially watching the staff crash and Burn(s), or acquiring a second or third-tier guy and simply hoping that he's better enough than Burns to at least stay kind-of in it for the last 2 months. Again, the risk with the latter is that you're potentially throwing talent at a lost cause, unless the guy is controlled for a couple of years.

 

I'm really starting to believe that there's just no point in going after a guy like Halladay at this point (and that's ignoring that Philly seems to be closing in on a deal for a cost that seems absurd for the Brewers to match or surpass at this point). If the Brewers could find a way to get a Bucholz or Morrow-type pitcher yet, I could get on board with that type of deal. Otherwise, standing pat and seeing what might be out there in return for our free-agents-to-be of value is probably the way to go at this point.

 

Of course, if they win the next 5 straight or something, that probably changes things dramatically.

[Brewcrewin07]

I ma the original one that said to include Parra in the deal. But, what most of you must have missed is I then said that you go and acquire Duscherer or someone of his ilk, for lessor prospects and you have now replaced Manny, with an even better pitcher IMO.

[brewmann04]

Melvin should be listening to Offers for his Players because this team is not a playoff club. I think he should really wait till the Offseason so he could get the best Offer Hart and Hardy.

[trwi7]

I ma the original one that said to include Parra in the deal. But, what most of you must have missed is I then said that you go and acquire Duscherer or someone of his ilk, for lessor prospects and you have now replaced Manny, with an even better pitcher IMO.

 

How do you know he's going to be better? He hasn't even pitched this season. And that also completely disregards that he's a free agent after the year, there's no guarantee he returns and then you have a Halladay/Gallardo/Bush/Suppan/Looper rotation and Cameron is a free agent, so you probably don't have enough money to bring him back and you have no replacement waiting in the wings.

[KCBrewerfan34]

From Sportsline

 

News: It appears that Toronto SP Roy Halladay truly is staying in Canada. On Saturday, reports MLB.com, the Phillies balked at a trade package for Halladay that would include starting pitchers Kyle Drabek and J.A. Happ, along with OF prospect Dominic Brown. The Phillies do not want to give up both Happ and Drabek and it appears the Jays want nothing less.

[rickh150]

Halladay-----I'd give up Escobar, Lawrie, a minors pitcher of choice, and another low level player

Why? 1. Without great pitching at the top of our rotation, and I mean great, we do not stand a chance.
2. We can still make a run this year and next.
3. Fielder could be had for some very good pitching after the 2010 season.
4. Suppan and Hall come off the books after the 2010 season(and Fielder, maybee) for a little payroll flexibility.
5. Sign JJ long-term after this season for a lower $$ total because of a down year. He's still a player in my mind, and he loves Milwaukee.

Finally, I'd probably give up a little more than the offer just to get a #1 starter. Sadly, I don't think the Blue Jays would do it.

[brewmann04]

i hope toronto keeps Halladay and the brewers keep their pospects.

[nate82]

Halladay-----I'd give up Escobar, Lawrie, a minors pitcher of choice, and another low level player

 

 

That trade is less than what the Jays want Kyle Drabek, J.A. Happ and Dominic Brown is the kind of players they want. I would say it would be something like this Parra, Scarpetta/Ordorizzi/Peralta, Escobar, and Lawrie would be close to what the Jays want. But the Brewers would still have to add some more pieces to that deal maybe someone like Gindl or Gamel.

[Gobias Industries]

From Sportsline

 

News: It appears that Toronto SP Roy Halladay truly is staying in Canada. On Saturday, reports MLB.com, the Phillies balked at a trade package for Halladay that would include starting pitchers Kyle Drabek and J.A. Happ, along with OF prospect Dominic Brown. The Phillies do not want to give up both Happ and Drabek and it appears the Jays want nothing less.

I still think this trade gets done on the last day, and I wouldn't blame either team for making it. Nearly every position player on the Phils is in their prime for the next couple of years. Halladay just makes soooo much sense for them, as they could realistically have a shot at winning the next two World Series, creating a mini-dynasty we haven't seen for over a decade now.

[TooLiveBrew]

Gamel is EXPENDABLE, we have McGehee there! get back involved Doug

 

Unbelievable. Is that you, Ken Macha?

[jwill535]

If they were the same age, we could have that discussion. Since Gamel has a few years on McGehee it isnt even close.

[brewmann04]

i hope the angles get Halladay and Melvin keeps our future Left side Gamel and escobar

[Invader3K]

"i hope the angles get halladay"

 

I hear the Saxons may make a play for him.