Roy Halladay

[Brewcrewin07]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

And then when Halladay leaves after next year or demands to be traded before the season starts it will take the Brewers longer to get the talent back that they just traded away. This would cause the 20+ years of no playoffs again and you are back where you started but this time you are even worse off.

And what IF acquiring Halladay wins you a World Series this year or next?? Then I'd say it was well worth it wouldn't you??

[nate82]

And what IF acquiring Halladay wins you a World Series this year or next?? Then I'd say it was well worth it wouldn't you??

And what if Halladay says no I don't want to come to Milwaukee and kills the trade then what? Halladay can choose if he wants to come here or not. Plus adding Halladay is not going to make this team more of a playoff contender this year or next year. The Brewers are still going to have Suppan and Looper in the rotation and if you trade Parra and Bush is not able to come back Burns stays in the rotation or McClung returns back to the rotation. There will still be holes in the rotation this is not like it was last year where the Brewers were just missing one spot in the rotation. The Brewers are missing two spots in the rotation and if you trade Parra for Halladay you just made a lateral move at best.

[paulmolitor4]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

I'm sure glad you don't.

[paulmolitor4]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

And then when Halladay leaves after next year or demands to be traded before the season starts it will take the Brewers longer to get the talent back that they just traded away. This would cause the 20+ years of no playoffs again and you are back where you started but this time you are even worse off.

And what IF acquiring Halladay wins you a World Series this year or next?? Then I'd say it was well worth it wouldn't you??

And what IF keeping all those prospects wins a couple World Series also. Then you would say it was well worth keeping them wouldn't you?

 

The desire for immediate gratification is hard to resist even when it defies your better judgment.

[Brewcrewin07]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

And then when Halladay leaves after next year or demands to be traded before the season starts it will take the Brewers longer to get the talent back that they just traded away. This would cause the 20+ years of no playoffs again and you are back where you started but this time you are even worse off.

And what IF acquiring Halladay wins you a World Series this year or next?? Then I'd say it was well worth it wouldn't you??

And what IF keeping all those prospects wins a couple World Series also. Then you would say it was well worth keeping them wouldn't you?

 

The desire for immediate gratification is hard to resist even when it defies your better judgment.

I'd say there is a better chance of Halladay coming aboard and winning a WS in the next two years with Prince still here then there is in the next 4-5 years relying on untapped potential. You play to win the game. Win now, worry about the future, in the future.

[BrewPackBuck]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

 

Thankfully you dont.

[BrewPackBuck]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

And then when Halladay leaves after next year or demands to be traded before the season starts it will take the Brewers longer to get the talent back that they just traded away. This would cause the 20+ years of no playoffs again and you are back where you started but this time you are even worse off.

And what IF acquiring Halladay wins you a World Series this year or next?? Then I'd say it was well worth it wouldn't you??

And what IF keeping all those prospects wins a couple World Series also. Then you would say it was well worth keeping them wouldn't you?

 

The desire for immediate gratification is hard to resist even when it defies your better judgment.

I'd say there is a better chance of Halladay coming aboard and winning a WS in the next two years with Prince still here then there is in the next 4-5 years relying on untapped potential. You play to win the game. Win now, worry about the future, in the future.

Explain to me how Halladay replacing Parra is going to benefit the rotation when we keep trotting out Burns? And that Win now, worry about he future, in the future gets you to the Houston's farm system which is horrific and will ultimitely lead to another 20 years of no playoffs.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Guys here's the deal the prospects are NOT going to win a WS for the Brewers unless we use them to acquire frontline pitching or we will get what we have this year, the worst (maybe 2nd worst) starting staff in the National League. That's fricking embarrassing!!!

 

You just can't win without pitching, in the off-season its harder to get frontline pitching. here's our chance and keeping Mat Gamel is more important than acquiring a frontline starter?? I don't get it.

 

I would feel differently if we had some pitching prospects close to the majors, can we project any starters from our minors by the beginning of 2011

 

 

Signed

 

1 Frustarted Brewer fan

 

 

Mark A please reach out to me for my resume!!!

[Oldcity]

The Brewers should have been able to get this done without including Parra and both Gamel and Escobar. Escobar, Lawrie and others would probably have done the trick, and would have given them a great chance the next two seasons. I'm still holding out hope.

[paulmolitor4]

Win now, worry about the future, in the future.

That mentality worked well for our economy.

[paulmolitor4]

Guys here's the deal the prospects are NOT going to win a WS for the Brewers unless we use them to acquire frontline pitching or we will get what we have this year, the worst (maybe 2nd worst) starting staff in the National League. That's fricking embarrassing!!!

 

You just can't win without pitching, in the off-season its harder to get frontline pitching. here's our chance and keeping Mat Gamel is more important than acquiring a frontline starter?? I don't get it.

 

I would feel differently if we had some pitching prospects close to the majors, can we project any starters from our minors by the beginning of 2011

 

 

Signed

 

1 Frustarted Brewer fan

 

 

Mark A please reach out to me for my resume!!!

Frustarted? Sorry, I thought that was funny.

 

I don't think anybody is saying we can't trade ANY prospects. Just don't sell the farm for the pretty new toy (Halladay). Maybe another starting pitcher could come in and help the Brewers make a run, and not come at such an exorbitant price. I like the idea of trying to get someone like Bedard now, and maybe going after someone like Peavy in the offseason.

[nate82]

Guys here's the deal the prospects are NOT going to win a WS for the Brewers unless we use them to acquire frontline pitching or we will get what we have this year, the worst (maybe 2nd worst) starting staff in the National League. That's fricking embarrassing!!!

 

You just can't win without pitching, in the off-season its harder to get frontline pitching. here's our chance and keeping Mat Gamel is more important than acquiring a frontline starter?? I don't get it.

 

I would feel differently if we had some pitching prospects close to the majors, can we project any starters from our minors by the beginning of 2011

 

 

Signed

 

1 Frustarted Brewer fan

 

 

Mark A please reach out to me for my resume!!!

You can't trade all of your best prospects and expect to be competitive in the future. If you trade Parra you have Burns or McClung in the rotation again how does that help the Brewers make the playoffs? If Bush doesn't come back this year who do you replace him with? If Bush doesn't come back and you trade Parra away for Halladay you have a rotation of:

Gallardo, Halladay, Looper, Suppan, and Burns/McClung/Dillard/Cody. The Brewers will still have two number fives and a number six pitcher in the rotation. I'm sorry but you just can not win like that. The rotation doesn't get any better by just adding Halladay into it. The same problems that were there before will still be there and you just made your farm system worse for a lateral movement.

[marty22]

as Nate82 pointed out, people fail to realize that any trade bringing back halladay (or cliff lee) would have to include Manny Parra. So, we'd be going from Parra to Halladay, while still having Burns out there every fifth day. Think about this: lets say halladay is a 2.8 ERA pitcher for the brewers, and Parra is a 4.5 from here on out (obviously this is very rough, but it's the principle i'm trying to illustrate thats important). Now lets say burns is a 5.5 ERA pitcher from here on out. If we go get someone like Carl Pavano, who projects at about a 3.8-4.0 ERA for the rest of the year (not to mention that's in the AL - 3.8 FIP), it WOULDNT cost manny parra, so we'd be replacing burns with Pavano.

 

So, we'd replace the 5.5 ERA Burns with the 4.0 ERA Pavano for a much cheaper price than replacing the 4.5 ERA Parra with the 2.8 ERA Halladay. I know this ignores the fact that Halladay works very deep into games, but Pavano would obviously work deeper than burns as well. This is a very rough illustration with off-the-cuff numbers, but its a very important thing to think about.

[endaround]

Toronto doesn't need pitching. Its one reason the Brewers match up with them. Parra doesn't need to shipped out.

[KCBrewerfan34]

If the Phillies get Halladay and Drabek is NOT in the deal Melvin should be held responsible. I am quickly losing confidence in the moustache. Good luck getting pitching this off-season, when he fails again he'll shrug his shoulders and say none were available.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Am I missing something, is this board putting a HIGH value on Manny Parra?

[nate82]

Am I missing something, is this board putting a HIGH value on Manny Parra?

Parra is better than Burns, Cody, and Dillard. Those are the pitchers who would be replacing Parra in the rotation.

 

End Toronto's GM has said publicly that he is looking for pitching in return of Halladay. So yes Parra would probably have to be in the deal I don't see any other pitcher in the Brewers organization who would fit other than low A ball players who are just as good as Parra but just are not ready.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Thanks Nate so we should value Parra highly because he's better than Burns? I can't even begin to tell you on so many levels how wrong your logic is during this thread. Just because the Toronto GM says he needs pitching doesn't mean its going to happen. Escobar will probably be pre-season top 5 minor league prospecte next year, he's probably doing everything he can to get him.

 

Also its been mentioned Tor is loaded with LH pitchers.

[wibadgers23]

Ken Rosenthal reports that Toronto and Philly is getting closer to a deal.

[nate82]

Thanks Nate so we should value Parra highly because he's better than Burns? I can't even begin to tell you on so many levels how wrong your logic is during this thread. Just because the Toronto GM says he needs pitching doesn't mean its going to happen. Escobar will probably be pre-season top 5 minor league prospecte next year, he's probably doing everything he can to get him.

 

Also its been mentioned Tor is loaded with LH pitchers.

How many LH pitchers the Jays have is irrelevant. If they want a starting pitcher that is what they are looking for and if you don't offer it they will just say no thanks until they get a deal they want. Parra should be valued highly because he is a good pitcher and should be a good #2 or #3 pitcher. Don't let Parra's current year cloud your judgement on Parras actual talent.

[TCSM]

Brew07, you're telling me you would be willing to risk our potential future players/all-stars for Halladay, a guy who pitches every fifth day in hopes we make it to the WS?

 

He would be a terrific addition to any team there is no doubt about that, but you do have to look beyond that. Do you honestly think we are one pitcher away from winning the playoffs? Just look at our rotation for starters...

 

Halladay - Great pitcher

Yo - Good #2 pitcher

 

After those two we have a slew of #4 and #5 pitchers, some more like AAA. Our rotation alone does not make us a WS team.

As far as our position players go it's hard to tell. One game they put up 8 runs with 14 hits, the next game they get 1-2 runs.

 

What I am trying to say is we need more than one farm system crippling trade to make it to the WS like you think. Do we need two pitchers, one pitcher one batter, or two pitchers and a batter....? I obviously don't know the answer, but two pitchers would be ideal in my books. Depending on who and where, a batter could be acquired with a pitcher for all we know.

 

To destroy our farm system for a rental does not seem like the logical thing to do. Especially when we need more than one trade.

[paulmolitor4]

Thanks Nate so we should value Parra highly because he's better than Burns? I can't even begin to tell you on so many levels how wrong your logic is during this thread. Just because the Toronto GM says he needs pitching doesn't mean its going to happen. Escobar will probably be pre-season top 5 minor league prospecte next year, he's probably doing everything he can to get him.

 

Also its been mentioned Tor is loaded with LH pitchers.

TORONTO WANTS PITCHING, and if they are going to trade Halladay they are going to get it. That is why the Phillies are the frontrunner for Halladay. They have prospects like Drabek and Carrasco to offer. The Brewers best pitching prospects aren't major league ready, so they can easily be trumped by the Phillies.

 

Oh and the sky is not falling if the Brewers do not acquire Halladay. Every time there is potential to acquire a big name in a trade, and it looks like things are not going to work out for some reason there are some fans who act like this. I don't get it.

[Hsee2006]

I guess i don't see how Parra and Gamel or Escobar is going to cripple the franchise. We are going to get prospects galore as the first wave (Prince, Hardy, Hart and Weeks) all reach the end of arbitration as there is no way we are going to hold on to all of them until the end of their arbitration eligibility. Prince alone will probably replensih any lost prospects that we deal for Halladay.

 

However, I think that standing pat we go into next season with essentially the same team we had this year except minus hardy for some pitching. Gamel and Escobar are both very good and exciting players but they are no where near the level of untouchability that Braun, Gallardo and Fielder were at the same level of development. So my question is if we decide they are both untouchable, what is the plan for the rest of this year and next year? Are we certain that Hardy will net us a good pitcher to make us that much better? Are we deciding that we will just be pretty good over the next two years and that we will make the true push with the second wave (post 2010)? Do we believe that replacing Hardy for pitching and adding Escobar and Gamel is better than adding Halladay for next year and losing one of them plus Parra?

 

My feeling is that losing Parra and Gamel for Halladay is not that bad for this year or for the future. With D. Bush returning a rotation of Halladay, Gallardo, Bush, Suppan Looper is pretty solid and could be available for next year also. Losing Gamel hurts but if Casey McGehee has suddenly discovered the prospect status he once had then the fall off from Gamel too him may not be that much. In addition Heether, if he continues to swing a solid stick, also gives us flexibility at third. I just hope that Gamel and Escobar don't turn out like other failed "can't miss prospects" and become good but not great major league players.

[Weirdos19]

Our 2010 infield: Prince Rickie JJ McGehee Counsell (will be resigned) Gamel Escobar There will be trades made. If one isn't made soon, Melvin will get lowballed by gm's that know he has to make a deal. It's happened here before. Same thing is going on in Texas with their catching that's 4 deep. A deal should be made before July 31st. I have a feeling Bannister and Deutscherer will be Brewers.

[prigan13]

And what if Halladay says no I don't want to come to Milwaukee and kills the trade then what? Halladay can choose if he wants to come here or not. Plus adding Halladay is not going to make this team more of a playoff contender this year or next year. The Brewers are still going to have Suppan and Looper in the rotation and if you trade Parra and Bush is not able to come back Burns stays in the rotation or McClung returns back to the rotation. There will still be holes in the rotation this is not like it was last year where the Brewers were just missing one spot in the rotation. The Brewers are missing two spots in the rotation and if you trade Parra for Halladay you just made a lateral move at best.

 

 

Im sorry....but how can you with a straight face say that. and i quote " adding Halladay is not going to make this team more of a playoff contender this year or next year"?

 

Adding Halladay would make every single team in the league more of a contender.....

 

I just fail to comprehend this logic. Did adding CC last season not make us more of a contender? Would we not have been a contender this season if we had re-signed him?

 

I mean no offense, but this statement was as illogical as they come.