Roy Halladay

[Invader3K]

Latest report on MLB Trade Rumors says the Brewers are basically out of the Halladay race because Melvin is refusing to part with either Gamel or Escobar. I guess that will make some here happy, if true.

[paulmolitor4]

You can just spit on the dollar estimates if you like, but they are very useful comparative tools. I for one can say I find your outright dismissal of them really frustrating in these discussions.

 

Here's what I find frustrating: This obsessive over-reliance on statistics to determine a player's current and future worth. Face it, if there was one sure-fire predictive measure, there would be no reason to play the game anymore. Everyone would already know what was going to happen. Baseball is played by real people, therefore there is no measure that will ever accurately determine how well a player will perform. Outcomes in baseball are too complex and dynamic for any statistical measure to ever have true predictive value. I think you have to consider BOTH statistics and what the naked eye tells you about a player, and even then you have to consider yourself lucky to somewhat accurately predict a player's production.

[jwill535]

I think the report was that he wouldnt give up both players.

[Invader3K]

"Brewers wouldn't part with Escobar or Gamel for Halladay. Hard to do a deal without them."

 

That's from Dan Knobler of CBS Sports, so take it for whatever it's worth.

[brewcrewkid14]

Well, on the site it uses "or" suggesting he'll part with neither. He'll be a Phillie by the end of the weekend. That's my prediction.

[Bluechip]

I think the report was that he wouldnt give up both players.

Danny Knobler (CBS Sports) twittered that the Brewers "wouldn't part with Escobar or Gamel...." I read that as the reporter was told that the Brewers wouldn't give up either one, even separately.

 

http://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/2825623129

 

Edit: I guess I type slowly. Sorry about repeating what others posted.

[Hate those Rodents]

Thank you for not being dumb, Mr. Melvin.

[Invader3K]

Well, I won't pretend I'm not slightly disappointed. I think giving up either one with a couple lesser players would have been worth it for a season and a half of Halladay, but hopefully maybe Melvin can find some pitching help otherwise that won't cost as much. I'm not necessarily regretting if he holds onto both of his top prospects, but Halladay in a Brewers uni would have been pretty exciting.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I hope the rumor that Melvin wont trade Gamel or Escobar are true. I would be heartbroken if Gamel was traded. Better to just ride it out with who we have and make another run next season.

[Brewcrewin07]

I like Doug but if he isn't willing to do WHATEVER it takes (short of dealing Braun, Prince or Yo), to improve the ball club then maybe it's time to look for a new GM. If this report is true, then the season is over for me. The Cardinals are making upgrades and just gave up their top prospect for a rental and Doug won't give up one of the Brewers top 2 prospects for arguably the best pitcher in baseball?? Thanks for nothing Doug.

[Hate those Rodents]

I highly disagree. Does that mean the 10-15 other teams with a slight or better shot at making the playoffs that didn't do WHATEVER it takes should fire their GM too?

[paulmolitor4]

I like Doug but if he isn't willing to do WHATEVER it takes (short of dealing Braun, Prince or Yo), to improve the ball club then maybe it's time to look for a new GM. If this report is true, then the season is over for me. The Cardinals are making upgrades and just gave up their top prospect for a rental and Doug won't give up one of the Brewers top 2 prospects for arguably the best pitcher in baseball?? Thanks for nothing Doug.

And the Cardinals continue to deplete their farm system down to nothing. I'm surprised they didn't throw in Rasmus too. Thanks for not being a moron Doug.

[Brewcrewin07]

I like Doug but if he isn't willing to do WHATEVER it takes (short of dealing Braun, Prince or Yo), to improve the ball club then maybe it's time to look for a new GM. If this report is true, then the season is over for me. The Cardinals are making upgrades and just gave up their top prospect for a rental and Doug won't give up one of the Brewers top 2 prospects for arguably the best pitcher in baseball?? Thanks for nothing Doug.

And the Cardinals continue to deplete their farm system down to nothing. I'm surprised they didn't throw in Rasmus too. Thanks for not being a moron Doug.

Who cares about prospects that may or may NOT end up being anything. I'll take proven commodities any day and take my chances of being good that way. Apparently Doug is willing to wait until he's long been out of Milwaukee to see this team make the playoffs again. if not this year, when?? Frankly, I am not willing to wait another 26 years, and that is very well what it could be if you don't take advantage of the legitimate chances you have.

[Hate those Rodents]

I take it if you had 20K to your name, 18.5K would go to a cool car then, huh?

[nate82]

Who cares about prospects that may or may NOT end up being anything. I'll take proven commodities any day and take my chances of being good that way. Apparently Doug is willing to wait until he's long been out of Milwaukee to see this team make the playoffs again. if not this year, when?? Frankly, I am not willing to wait another 26 years, and that is very well what it could be if you don't take advantage of the legitimate chances you have.

And if the Brewers don't make the playoffs this year and Hardy continues to slide and Halladay gets injured then what? You just gave up some cheap prospects that could have filled holes by trades or in the lineup. There is no guarantee that the Brewers would make the playoffs if they get Halladay. I don't believe the Brewers chances change much if they get Halladay or not.

 

You can't do a blockbuster trade year after year if you are a team like the Brewers. You do it when you can like last year for Sabathia but you don't do it for a second year in a row. The Brewers just do not have the financial means to do it every year to replace prospects that they lose with free agents. If Melvin did this trade it probably would be another 20+ years before we would see the playoffs again after Halladay is gone.

[paulmolitor4]

Who cares about prospects that may or may NOT end up being anything. I'll take proven commodities any day and take my chances of being good that way. Apparently Doug is willing to wait until he's long been out of Milwaukee to see this team make the playoffs again. if not this year, when?? Frankly, I am not willing to wait another 26 years, and that is very well what it could be if you don't take advantage of the legitimate chances you have.

Thankfully, Doug Melvin does not have this attitude. If he did, we wouldn't even be having this conservation because we would still be a perennial cellar dweller. Just remember the Brewers roster is made up largely of former Brewers' farmhands.

[Brewcrewin07]

I'd be willing to bet everything that Mark A does NOT want Doug sitting on his hands, and would like to see him make a serious run at Halladay. He owns the team. Let's let him worry about the finances etc shall we??

[Hate those Rodents]

It's not about the finances as much as it is a very poor baseball decision to trade a clump of our best young talent for one temporary arm.

[Brewcrewin07]

It's not about the finances as much as it is a very poor baseball decision to trade a clump of our best young talent for one temporary arm.

What if some of that best young talent turns out to be average or slightly better major league talent, and the Brewers don't make the playoffs during those players's prime years?? Halladay does more for the Brewers chances NOW AND next year then Gamel or Escobar COULD do for their chances 4-5 years from now.

 

The Cardinals didn't have the talent to sustain their level of play all year(BTW they weren't supposed to be in the playoffs either this year...not even close) and what are they doing?? Trading prospects to improve their chances THIS year. What a novel concept.

[KCBrewerfan34]

This move will end up costing Melvin his job unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat at the deadline or if he has an unbelievable off-season. If we come back with the same rotation next year minus Looper if I was Mark A. I would fire Melvin the day the rosters are set.

 

Gamel is EXPENDABLE, we have McGehee there! get back involved Doug

[Hate those Rodents]

Gamel imho will be a perennial allstar third baseman. Escobar very well could in the NL as well. Lawrie is too young to project, but at 2B, I like his chances. Those three will be an incredible infield in the near future and all are very necessary when Prince leaves.

 

And why do people even assume Halladay could go here? Other teams might be offering the world as well. And what if Toronto is hell-bent on getting the best young pitching they can for Halladay above all else? Then we literally would have no chance.

[paulmolitor4]

I think some fans get way too caught up in the hype. Halladay happens to be the expensive toy that everyone wants their daddy to buy for them. Just because the Brewers don't give away the farm for Halladay, does not mean there aren't other smarter options to explore before the trade deadline and in the offseason. I think the Brewers will acquire a pitcher before the deadline, but it probably won't be Halladay. And I guarantee the rotation will not be the same next year. Melvin will not simply stand pat, but whatever he does he needs to make sure it's the right decision for the team now AND in the future.

[wibadgers23]

Well, on the site it uses "or" suggesting he'll part with neither. He'll be a Phillie by the end of the weekend. That's my prediction.

I was thinking the same thing. I think Philly will ultimately include Drabek in a deal which will be tough for Toronto to turn down.

[Brewcrewin07]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

[nate82]

What would be an even tougher deal for Toronto to turn down would be if Doug stepped up to the plate and offered Escobar, Parra, Lawrie and Perriard. Done deal. Then trade a mid level prospect for Duscherer, you have now replaced Manny. I should run this ball club.

And then when Halladay leaves after next year or demands to be traded before the season starts it will take the Brewers longer to get the talent back that they just traded away. This would cause the 20+ years of no playoffs again and you are back where you started but this time you are even worse off.